The reason I ask is that I've had MTH for quite a while, and have had two revs of tuner, and about 5 of standard. Each one was done for my particular set of mods, and some revisions were based on feedback from me for the same set of mods (crappy CA gas creating some pinging...). So if what you quote is true, it goes against all my experience....

Matt

 

thats right..

along with mth software and header..

last run:
0011 184.18hp 164.13 torque
0021 197.89hp 164.50
0031 199.33hp 174.64
0041 201.85hp 174.66

 

Confused....

So what were the hp/torque gains with the header and tuner file alone?

 

the most i was able to get with the mth/header combo was 170hp and 151lbs torque.. -that seemed kind of low; but, it retrospect i realized that i didnt give the software a chance to adapt. my A/F mixtures were to rich to get any significant gains. i had only put 100miles on the set up before getting the car dynoed. my last run with the highest numbers was after driving the set up a good 1500miles in.

hope that helps

 

So, you installed the header and tuner file, dynoed the car and got 170 whp. Then you drove it 1500 miles, returned to the same dyno and got 30 more whp with no other changes to the vehicle?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but the 30 hp gain that BMDoubleU gets from his last run is also from a 2%crank, 15% reduct, kingsborne wires and ik22 plugs.
Shouldn't the 15% reduction and 2% crank yield about 20-25 whp?
If so, the header and the tuner file only produces 7-12 whp? Am I
right on this? Is this in line with the other headers on the market with an ECU chip? I thought an ECU chip by itself would produce those kinds of numbers. Just questions as I'm seriously considering the MTH header/file combo and I might even take up their special deal since I'm from Houston.

 

no, i added a 2%crank pully, 15%reduction pully, kingsborne wires, IK22 plugs to the list to get the 200whp. 30hp is the result of the synergy of the modz. (not to mention the running a little leaner A/F mix and 1500 miles of driving)

 

that is correct... the miltek header gets anywhere from 7-9hp according to some.. (however, you might get better gains than i. i had the hardest time getting the A/F mixtures right ... it running rich cost alot of HP) from what i've learned about gaining horsepower it is not easy.. there is a synergy that happens with different parts as they come together as one.. (the car)

in the case of the header; its up in the air as far as how much did it contribute to the whole. (i would imagine alot) just like intercoolers--is not how much you more horse power did you make but, rather how much you didnt lose as a whole.. (there was a definte difference after installing the header.....sounds meaner and felt stronger on the butt dyno.

note: i remember reading the mth header might not be compatable with the miltek cat back exhaust. i dont think so. but, if you get your header and connect it to your stock exhaust you might see more gains. dont know. all i know is, it has been fun.. and the car zipps pretty good...

the main selling pitch that caught my attention was the 400cell cat. 400cell cat will last longer than a 200cell cat under normal driving conditions.. the unichip/miltek header combo cost about $1730 vs. the mth software/header combo cost $1300... which one makes more HP on a stock car...dont know...

anyway, i hope that helps...

 

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106070

Has anybody seen this thread on mini2, specifically the posts by Berthill? This guy seems to be getting astounding gains from the header and tuner file from his butt-dyno. I guess we'll learn more after he dynos it in 2 months...

 

come on, somebody convince me to do it so we can all know if the MTH manifold actually contributes anything.

 

What more do you need to be convinced? Quality is superp, the results are there and it is the only one which has the TÜV approval.

And perhaps it helps a bit too when you know that the price for the header is going up slightly as per 1st of January 2006 due to higher material cost.
New price will then be 940,00 Euro excl. VAT plus shipping if you buy it straight from us. But please wait for Pat from MTH-USA to announce his prices for 2006. They might be different.

 

sure..

take you stock mini to your local dyno.. get a good baseline with A/F.. buy the mth header combo.. drive your car HARD for about 500miles after installing the combo.. go back to the dyno and you'll see some impressive gains..

i love the header/software combo.. it workd for me..

good luck.. if you cant see yourself spending so much... buy the mth software by itself... you'll love it..

 

Or, better yet, dyno the car in its current configuration. Then install the MTH header and tuner file combo and dyno again on the same dyno. Drive your car HARD for 500miles and dyno again on the same dyno. I have done lots and lots of testing and never seen any evidence to back up the claims that our MINI's take hundreds of miles to show the results of mods. If you change the header (and it works better than stock), you will see more power INSTANTLY since the engine is able to better evacuate spent exhaust gasses. If you change the program in the ECU (and it works better than stock), you will see more power INSTANTLY since all of the zeros and ones that are going to change, get changed INSTANTLY.

 

Nothing new here. Sure, changes will be felt immediately. But 100% full power needs a bit of driving. Fact.

 

Got any dynos to back that statement up?

 

Why is that? Is it because with "a bit driving" you run the ecu through all settings, ranges and loads ? (Best techno speak i can do).

I would very much like to understand, please explain.

 

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=56699

 

I don't know why it takes a bit of driving to reset the adaptive part of the ECU, but it certainly works!

I uploaded V7 Tuner and after 400-500km, the car was running much better and my fuel economy was better than never before!

I guess the MINI ECU needs some time to adjust to the new Air/Fuel mapping from MTH...

Once again, MTH Tuner V7 is awesome! I drove it for almost 1500km and the flat spot has never showed up again! Great job Franz and Volker!

 

Let's direct this argument. We are dealing with two different things here, with regard to learning:

1) On a dyno, full throttle, your car should be operating in open loop mode, right? It should be going solely based on the open loop parameters, which are coded in the file, no?

2) On the road, you're only in open loop when full throttle for a short while, if ever. Maybe the adaptability is in the closed loop operation [when it's reading AF's and altering fuel delivery appropriately, see http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h58.pdf], and therefore the car must learn its new operating capabilities for part throttle situations. Perhaps then it runs more efficiently and with more perceived power, day to day, in closed loop mode.

Andy, dynos usually only show the quality of the open loop program, correct?

Extra reading: http://www.hondata.com/techclosed.html

 

I don't see how your statement addresses this statement:

 

i wish i had enough time to take the steps you descibe because it would have given us the ANSWERS.. I ran out of time to fully test the mth header combo because i wanted to get a pully installed at a pulley party. so, it was either keep testing or go get the pulley..

i am certain the mth header added hp. i just dont know how much. according to my dynos it doesnt look like much...(perhaps do to the A/F mixtures)

the crank pulley and supercharger pulley with adjusted mth software added 25wwhp at the wheels.. go figure...

i am pleased. i may go get my car dynoed one more time. (its feeling even more power latey..)

 

I hear ya, and the overall results for your car look very impressive.

To find out how much power the header/tuner file delivers by itself, it sounds like krazyivan831 would be the perfect candidate to take MTH up on their heater/tuner file/dyno offer.

 

Andy, it addressed your statement, silly boy! There's my theory. It makes sense and would mean that both you and MTH are half-right. It would, therefore, reconcile all existing "evidence" and insight. Don't play ignorant and cognitively unavailable just because it's not your theory. . AGAIN: Maybe there is increase in closed circuit [around town] power but no increase in open circuit [full throttle] power with ecu "learning." There, [it is] clear as day, so if you will, please address the theory [if you can].

 

description I've read on EFI indicates that the WOT map is open loop. But seeing as BMW/Mini/Siemens are so damned secretive about what really happens in the ECU, and I have no clue how to get into it to see for myself, I don't think there's an easy way to tell.

Matt

 

This is super secret, but I've been on this recently . I'll let everyone know if things go well . For those privy: 1 4rt t3h h4x0r!