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No. I'm currently capturing data to a laptop via a Tactrix Openport. We have been grabbing 4th gear WOT from 2k to redline as apparently, that gives him exactly what he needs. Without a dyno available locally (or a dyno that isn't sketchy as hell) I had to find a safe place to do this since a public road is definitely not an option.
I found this on Google Maps:
4000 feet of asphalt and totally off public roads. It looks sketchy in the photo, but it is actually not bad at all, no potholes or other hazards.
That looks like a great spot for testing! I had to grab 3rd gear pulls to redline for Lou, and had to make them on the highway on ramps. Still felt sketchy due to being on public roads, but it got the job done. I'm looking forward to where you end up with him, since you're running an Airworks turbo.
Can’t be that many Scotty_r56s screen names out there...
It's a small internet
I definitely sent it a little too hard on the out lap, lol. It was a ton of fun and got me thinking that maybe left foot braking isn't as complicated as I thought it was.
I did a bit of electric, indoor karting until the place closed. No real outdoor karting around here. Too short of a season, I imagine. Momentum is key to Karting. The key to momentum is your line and to not brake. Turn-in points, getting down to the apex and track-out are critical. Make the turns as wide as possible.
My dad taught me to do left foot braking when I was learning to drive. For him it was all about reaction time when in bumper to bumper traffic. But this didn’t help when I was first karting... A kart spun in front of me, I hit the “brake” and the “clutch” (both feet in, just like in a car on the track)... Ooops no clutch in a kart and the brake is on the other side... So I hit the gas, the real brake did little, and my kart lunged into the kart in front of me. No one was hurt, but it was quite a bang.
Left foot braking in a MINI - I tried this when doing autocross. I found that the ECU dumps the boost when you left foot brake and it takes forever to recover. Especially, trying to do a power on, left foot brake. It may work better with a full lift of the throttle, slightly before hitting the brake, but it seems like that defeats the purpose. And I couldn’t get that to work either. Then there is the steering column... My left foot catches it. Lastly for me, the tracks I am on there are no places I have to brake that I don’t have to shift, so no left foot braking... So, I don’t even bother to think about it.
I've tried left foot braking in the Classic Mini, which has drums in the rear and relatively small discs up front, so the brakes don't bite very quickly. It felt weird at first, of course, but I didn't think I gained a whole lot from the exercise. When I tried it out on the track MINI with a BBK (Brembo) I found it was very difficult to modulate. On the plus side, I learned how quickly the car can actually stop, in case I ever decide to use the brakes on the track
I keep getting YouTube recommendations of this crazy guy “Scotty” something. This time he is squealing tires around a place call Atlanta? Road something? Atlantic... Whatever... Doesn’t look like he is having as much fun as he did in the kart... no donuts, no fun off track adventure... Just some boring laps...
Seriously, did you watch your own video, closely? Did you see how little hand movement you had going through the esses? How did that feel? It looked really good from this side of the screen...
Do I see a bit of Randy Pobst’s line through T2?
I am going to say - quite an improvement from before...
In the long video... What’s with unusual hand placement on the steering wheel and subsequent finger dance at 120+ mph on the back straight? I’ll say one thing about that... You have a lot of confidence in the stability of your car! More than what I have in mine.
A couple of nits - T10...While it is hard to tell from the POV camera angle, it seems, in the short video, that you were late turning in for 10A and missing the apex. That was a bit of a surprise as that was one turn you we’re doing well at before... Hmmmm... In the long video, it sounded like you were early to lift off the gas going into T10 and there was a bit of a coast before hitting the brakes. I didn’t watch the whole 40+ min of the video, but in what I did watch it also seemed like you were working on this and your braking point... Between apexing 10A and coming up with a good braking point for T10, I think there is a bit of time to be gained here. But I am guessing you already know this..
T6/T7 - This is a lot like Big Bend at LRP, 2 apex that you can almost take as a single arc but not quite and, as such, it winds up be a bit more frustrating that what you might like... At least at LRP it is for me. This is a turn where you might want to try different lines through it. The MINI is going to take this differently than a RWD car and the fastest line might not be the racing line. The racing line is going to be to close off the apex of T6. However, the fastest way around this might be to late brake, trail brake into T6, not apex T6 (half a car width off the apex?), carry that trail brake as far past T6 as possible, then setup the turn in for T7 and apex that turn the way you are now... Just something to think about trying.
Just curious... What toe in are you running in the front?
Overall
Last edited by Eddie07S; Jul 14, 2021 at 06:03 AM.
Reason: Typo
We just wrapped another fun weekend at Road Atlanta. I was fortunate enough to receive some excellent coaching from a friend. We didn’t really plan it that way, but it worked out really well.
I have run a 1:46 before, but it was a challenge, lately I’ve been sitting between 1:48 and 1:50, usually the latter. My first two sessions of the day topped out at 1:50 and by the end of the weekend, I put down a 1:44.26 and sat consistently on 1:45.
Justin and I have been talking MINI stuff for a while now and it was great to finally get to the track together. I think the original idea was just a “drive my car and tell what to fix” and maybe an informal, hop in and give some pointers kind of a thing. It turned into something much more dynamic. Aside from all of the great advice, experience, and knowledge he provided, it was absolutely awesome to ride along in my car and see what it was capable of. I also found it absolutely invaluable to ride along in his E30 race car prior to going out on my sessions. What I found was, when you transition from the passenger seat to the driver’s seat, it’s as if everything is in slow motion. My times were significantly faster when I would ride along. Among other things, being able to study the turn-in points without worrying about driving the car was excellent. I can’t say enough good about Justin, but I’ll say he’s alright for a slow Champ Car driver.
Another great thing about this: I know there is more left in the car. The 1:44 was not a very clean lap, I was experimenting with maintaining a higher gear rather than downshifting so often and my set up into T10 was less than optimal, and well as my exit from T6. The car is more than capable, and it’s only going to get faster.
Now that I have some downtime, I can get the Prototype-R tune (that has been sitting in my inbox for a week) flashed and begin data logging. The can absolutely needs an LSD, and it’s probably time to think about replacing the clutch. She had about 9000 miles on her when I bought her and I have added about 110,000. Not bad for the “fragile” dual-mass flywheel and MINI original clutch.
@Eddie07S 1.5mm toe out (F), 2mm toe in (R). I tried to get 0 toe in the rear, but I ran out of adjustment on the RTA. I can probably use the adjustable arms to get it the rest of the way, but I’m going to leave it as-is until I get scales and get serious. The POV camera is fun, but it doesn't really give the full picture. I'll upload some of the in-car this week, and start playing around with other mounting points for next time!
Below are some of my takeaways from this weekend:
Soften the rear 4 clicks.
Brake like there is a baby in the road (yeah, I was under braking by a lot).
Roll on the throttle (I had a habit of treating it like an on/off switch I attribute this to working around the failing turbos).
Let the torque pull you up the hill.
Apex later at T1, track out.
Stay in 4th through T3, try to stay in 4th through T5, 5th through T6.
T5, wait for the bump on the right, then throw it.
T6, start turn in before the white line (100).
T7, slow in, fast out. Get the wheel pointed straight quickly.
T10, set up a little to the left. Don’t touch the outside kerb on turn-in. get some kerb in the actual turns, Take it in 4th, use the torque that way you can me flat out up to and under the bridge. Grab 5th on the way down. Not necessary to downshift for T1, 5th is probably faster.
We just wrapped another fun weekend at Road Atlanta. I was fortunate enough to receive some excellent coaching from a friend. We didn’t really plan it that way, but it worked out really well.
I have run a 1:46 before, but it was a challenge, lately I’ve been sitting between 1:48 and 1:50, usually the latter. My first two sessions of the day topped out at 1:50 and by the end of the weekend, I put down a 1:44.26 and sat consistently on 1:45.
Justin and I have been talking MINI stuff for a while now and it was great to finally get to the track together. I think the original idea was just a “drive my car and tell what to fix” and maybe an informal, hop in and give some pointers kind of a thing. It turned into something much more dynamic. Aside from all of the great advice, experience, and knowledge he provided, it was absolutely awesome to ride along in my car and see what it was capable of. I also found it absolutely invaluable to ride along in his E30 race car prior to going out on my sessions. What I found was, when you transition from the passenger seat to the driver’s seat, it’s as if everything is in slow motion. My times were significantly faster when I would ride along. Among other things, being able to study the turn-in points without worrying about driving the car was excellent. I can’t say enough good about Justin, but I’ll say he’s alright for a slow Champ Car driver.
I am really happy to read that you were able to work with someone. I preach a lot to my MINI friends around here about getting an instructor in the car. What you said above is exactly why someone would want and really needs to do this. And to your point, it is invaluable to be able to ride along with someone who knows the track.
Clearly, there is a marked difference in your line, hand movements and even application of gas... A 5-6 second improvement in lap time is nothing to sneeze at.
Congrats!
Originally Posted by scotty_r56s
Another great thing about this: I know there is more left in the car. The 1:44 was not a very clean lap, I was experimenting with maintaining a higher gear rather than downshifting so often and my set up into T10 was less than optimal, and well as my exit from T6. The car is more than capable, and it’s only going to get faster.
Now that I have some downtime, I can get the Prototype-R tune (that has been sitting in my inbox for a week) flashed and begin data logging. The can absolutely needs an LSD, and it’s probably time to think about replacing the clutch. She had about 9000 miles on her when I bought her and I have added about 110,000. Not bad for the “fragile” dual-mass flywheel and MINI original clutch.
@Eddie07S 1.5mm toe out (F), 2mm toe in (R). I tried to get 0 toe in the rear, but I ran out of adjustment on the RTA. I can probably use the adjustable arms to get it the rest of the way, but I’m going to leave it as-is until I get scales and get serious. The POV camera is fun, but it doesn't really give the full picture. I'll upload some of the in-car this week, and start playing around with other mounting points for next time!
I asked because of the tire squeal you are getting when you turn-in for a corner.
I know you are not going to want to hear this, but I would add some toe-in to the front (~1mm) and leave the rear where it is. Those numbers and your your target for the rear are better suited for autocross than the track. The front toe out leads to a quicker initial turn-in and rear toe-out leads to instability at the back end of the car. All of this helps in a tight autocross course where you might be doing turns at 20mph and have a top speed of maybe 60. But in my book the last thing you want to have is rear end instability at 120 mph when you take that dogleg on the back straight.
The problem with toe out on the race track is that while it may help with initial turn-in, it becomes a loss once the car weight has shifted to the outside wheel. When that happens, the outside wheel is pointed outward and away from the direction of the turn. In order to keep from running off the track, more steering input is needed. That added steering input results in the inside tire being turned in too far and the inside of that tire is just scrubbing all of the way around the turn... Also, the radius that car is going to take is going to be the average (approximately) of the angle of the 2 front wheels. If the inside tire is pointed inward too far, than that means the outside tire has to be pointed away from the turn... Hence it is going to scrub, too...
All cars today are designed with Ackermann steering. This is a design that cause the inside wheel to turn in more than the outside wheel in order to account for the difference in radius the wheels need to be at in order for the car to follow an arc. How this steering is designed determines how much more that inside wheel turns in vs the outside wheel for a given steering input. In the MINI, there is quite a bit of turn-in for that inside wheel. Having a bit of toe-in keeps that turn-in from being too much...
Originally Posted by scotty_r56s
Below are some of my takeaways from this weekend:
Soften the rear 4 clicks.
Yes! MINIs don’t need a hard rear...
Originally Posted by scotty_r56s
Brake like there is a baby in the road (yeah, I was under braking by a lot).
Remember, there are few absolutes in this world... I have learned of a few corners that require a light and early brake. In those corners hard, late braking would inevitably result in over braking and slowing too much.
Originally Posted by scotty_r56s
Roll on the throttle (I had a habit of treating it like an on/off switch I attribute this to working around the failing turbos).
Let the torque pull you up the hill.
Apex later at T1, track out.
Stay in 4th through T3, try to stay in 4th through T5, 5th through T6.
T5, wait for the bump on the right, then throw it.
T6, start turn in before the white line (100).
T7, slow in, fast out. Get the wheel pointed straight quickly.
Fast in and fast out is overall faster...
Originally Posted by scotty_r56s
T10, set up a little to the left. Don’t touch the outside kerb on turn-in. get some kerb in the actual turns, Take it in 4th, use the torque that way you can me flat out up to and under the bridge. Grab 5th on the way down. Not necessary to downshift for T1, 5th is probably faster.
Thanks, Eddie. I'll keep those toe changes in mind.
I'm finally getting the tune loaded and getting ready to do data collection. Lou has been great ad the delays have been 100% on me, Lou has been super helpful and his turnaround time has been very rapid.
Last edited by scotty_r56s; Oct 9, 2021 at 02:35 PM.
Reason: House cleaning
I'm finally getting the tune loaded and getting ready to do data collection. Lou has been great ad the delays have been 100% on me, Lou has been super helpful and his turnaround time has been very rapid.
...
Lou has been fantastic to work with. You're gonna love it!
What would your thought be with respect to putting a small cooler on the oil return line from the turbo?
Back when I had the aux water pump issue on my R56 S this idea popped into my head and it came back to me when I recently came across a thread with an engine build much like yours and tracks the car, but the person is having really high oil and water temps issues... which I think you didn’t have...
What would your thought be with respect to putting a small cooler on the oil return line from the turbo?
Back when I had the aux water pump issue on my R56 S this idea popped into my head and it came back to me when I recently came across a thread with an engine build much like yours and tracks the car, but the person is having really high oil and water temps issues... which I think you didn’t have...
I would think a cooler in the FEED line to the turbo would be better for the turbo... The oil in the return line doesn't have anything pushing it through - its a gravity drain.
I would think a cooler in the FEED line to the turbo would be better for the turbo... The oil in the return line doesn't have anything pushing it through - its a gravity drain.
True... for the turbo, but not the engine. It is the engine I am thinking of.
When I lost the aux water pump to the turbo, the return oil was so hot that it raised the overall engine oil temp by about 20 deg... Even with the aux water pump working, the return oil is going to be really hot. I am not as concerned about having cooler oil going to the turbo as I am about having cooler engine oil. If the return oil from the turbo is raising the engine oil temp, then cooling the turbo return oil would make sense. As it is, turbos are not dying so I think the temp of the oil going to it isn’t an issue. Cooler oil for the engine (to a point) is always desirable.
Well, turns out I couldn't bring myself to let her go.
Still alive, finishing up an awesome tune with @Lou@Prototype-R , and getting ready for some track time.
I officially retired from the Army on June 1st and I thought I'd have all kinds of time on my hands. As it turns out, running your own business is very time-consuming lol.
Doesn’t look like he is having as much fun as he did in the kart... no donuts, no fun off track adventure... Just some boring laps...
