I installed an Alpine PXE-H650 and PDX-5 in my 2008 Clubman w/base stereo over seven months ago and last week the air conditioning stopped working. The controls were functional but there was no air blowing out. I brought it into the dealer and after replacing various parts with no success, they started to take apart the paneling and found the burnt wiring in the pass-thru harness I made.

They are claiming that the burnt wires are the cause of the air conditioning malfunction and since this was an aftermarket install, I would be left paying for the damage. If this is the result of my poor installation, I have no problem paying for the damage caused by my apparent lack of skill. But I would like to know what went wrong with my install and whether or not the air conditioning failure was truly my fault.

Any feedback that can be provided would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

I forgot to include that all four speakers were still working after the air conditioning failed.

 

Looks like it might be wire gauge issue. The burned wire is pretty beefy on the original side of plug. Looks like your wires might be thinner. The wires on the stock side of the plug are different gauges. Your wire seems to be all the same gauge.

I can't do all the math for you, but thinner wire will generate more heat than thicker wire for the same load (it's a resistance issue). Your wires may have simply overheated under the electrical load.

Since it's burned at the connector, it might not be solidly connected. If you crimped them only, it might not be a good crimp.

That's a bummer. Hope it turns out ok for you...

 

Do you know which pin number the burned wire is on? Is that brown (ground) on the factory wire side?

 

First off, thanks for looking at my thread and responding.

The wires are all of the same gauge and I'm not sure why I didn't think to match gauges. The dealership still has the car but I'm picking it up tomorrow so I can return the wiring to stock (or as close to stock as possible). Then they'll give it another go.

It looks like the wire that's the most melted is on the female side of the harness I created and connects to the large brown grounding wire on the factory side.

Would this be enough for the mechanism that blows air into the cabin to stop working? The air conditioner seemed to work. I could feel the temperature by the vents change when I adjusted the controls from cool to hot. There's just no air blowing into the cabin.

 

*delete

 

Judging by the wiring diagrams, your burned wire is connected to pin 12 of X9331 which is a ground. On one side it goes to the ground point. The other side goes to another connector X3279, which distributes the ground to a number of different things including heating/air conditioning. If the ground through X9331 was severed, I'm surprised more things weren't affected but sometimes electronics can still get by without a solid ground.

 

+1

Some of the other electronics can be grounded thru their particular chassis parts or in some cases a second ground.

Even after putting the car back to stock will most likely not help you as the dealer has already reported this in the cars history. Even if you go to another dealer that dealer knows what has transpired and will probably not fix the car under warranty.

 

I dont even know why they have that connector there in the first place, seems like overkill to me. When I did my channel swap I just cut it out and straight wired everything through butt connectors.

 

It is there because of the different stereo types (base, hifi, HK).

The stereo wiring in the main dash harness ends there at the X9931 and has three tow possible harnesses that can connect to it.

1. Base stereo system. Harness runs directly to the door and rear speakers.

2. HiFi & HK. Harness runs to the rear of the car to connect to the amp and then another harness runs to the door, pillar, and rear speaker locations.

That is why it is there.

 

That would make sense!

 

My custom harness had the same scorching of the connector and wire, but I got to it quick enough to prevent any damage. I thought I had used the right gauge wire (looking right now, appears to be AWG18), but I guess I'm going to have to beef it up. Which gauge did you use? That actually looks a lot worse than mine does...

 

Anyone have success using 12 gauge wire for the non-speaker wires of the harness? I don't think we need 10 gauge, or should I get that instead?

 

*bump*

After reading this again, I plan on returning the two small spools of 12 gauge that I bought . home depot sells four different colors of wire at least in the 10 gauge size. It costs around 38¢ per foot of wire. It would still be good to hear how others have corrected or prevented this wire burn issue.
Thanks

 

Not sure of the wire, but HD is exactly that, not an automotive wire supplier. Make sure you are getting good stuff, ie flexibility and strand requirements as well as insulation. I would pay more and find a decent online supplier unless you are sure that the HD is equal.

 

Strand instead of the solid wire variety... alright. Any thoughts on the minimum wire gauge needed for the pass through lines?

 

Depends entirely on the length of the pigtail and any loads you may add that would use the grounds in that harness (there are multiple). However, over very short runs the gauge is not likely to be an issue. Looking at the failure mode of the OP's harness, it wasn't that the wire gauge was too small, but rather a poor crimp. A poor crimp (or a damaged pin/socket) will have a higher resistance that increases dramatically as more current is applied, creating significant heat.

You need a specific tool to properly crimp these open barrel connectors (you can't just use a pair of pliers or the cheapo plier-style crimpers!), and I'm guessing he didn't have the proper tool. We use a ratchet crimper with the specific tooling for these TE pins/sockets, and our harness supplier uses automated tooling that is far slicker (and more expensive!) but makes perfect, factory crimps. A crimp made without the proper tool is highly prone to failure, even if it has been working fine for some time. Be careful!!

The OP is extremely lucky he didn't set the car on fire. Especially given that the fire would have been most likely to occur while driving. Please folks, be sure to take the time to understand what you are doing and buy the correct tools. The hand tooling we use was about $500, but you can get a generic open barrel ratchet crimper for about $100. Otherwise, leave it to professionals. Saving even a couple hundred dollars won't seem that smart when your MINI is a pile of ashes and your insurance company has some pointed questions.

EDIT: Also, I'm going just on memory here but I believe the largest wires in that harness are 2.5mm, which is ~15 AWG. If you used 14AWG or larger, didn't add any load or lots of length, and it failed...it probably wasn't the wire that caused the problem.

 

Kevin, really appreciate your post and taking the time to explain these details. I am doing research on this topic.

For informational purposes here is more info to add to this body of knowledge. Thanks, William
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::


A Word About Crimping Open Barrel Terminals

By Al Campion

AutoReWire.com

So what is an open barrel terminal and why is necessary to have a special tool?

An open barrel terminal is just about every terminal used on a modern automobile. Packard 56 terminals, Packard Weather Pack and Metri-Pack terminals, AMP MATE-N-LOCK Terminals are all examples of open barrel crimp terminals.

The open barrel crimp is one of the best crimps developed for creating a low resistance connection between the wire and the terminal and must be crimped with the proper tool. It is more difficult to properly roll the tabs into the wire and crimp it with sufficient pressure to keep the wire from pulling out. Wiring harness manufactures use very expensive mechanical presses that produce consistent and repeatable crimps time after time. Professional repair technicians use expensive ratcheting hand crimpers that also produce very nice crimps comparable to the large automated presses. It is also important that the terminal be properly sized to the gauge of the wire. It can be very hard to tell which terminal is for what wire size so I always suggest that you label your storage containers so that you know at a glance what sizes you have in stock. High dollar ratcheting crimpers do the best job but are hardly worth the expenditure if you are only going to make a few connections while rewiring your car. There are some relatively good, inexpensive tools around that will do an ok job of crimping these terminals if you are careful. I found one in a hardware store many years ago for less than 20 bucks that does a very good job (wish I could find a distributor for them). We stock two different models one that crimps 7 different sizes ($ 42.00) and one that crimps 3 sizes ($ 33.00).

So what does the average home auto enthusiast or mechanic do to get a good connection if you don't have the right tool? Simple, get a good soldering iron (a 65-100 watt iron is good for most light automotive uses, 200 watt is better) and a roll of thin rosin core solder (60/40 tin/lead of .025 to .040 inches in diameter). Pre tin the center of the terminal between the forward tabs with a bit of solder and tin the very tip of the stripped wire. Don't get carried away with the solder, just a tiny bit is all that is needed. Place the wire into the terminal and crimp the best you can with what you have for a crimper (don't over do it - just snug will work). Next, with your soldering iron, apply heat to the end of the wire at the crimp you made until the solder flows. If necessary add a tiny bit of solder to the very end of the wire (remember too much solder is NOT a good thing, just a little dab will do ya'). You don't want the solder to wick up into the wire insulation, as this will cause the wire to break at this point due to vibration. Finally crimp the back ears over the wire insulation (after it cools) and insert the terminal into its connector housing.

Wire Size (AWG) Soldering Iron Size (Heat Capacity)
#20 - #16 65 Watts
#14 & #12 100 Watts
#10 & #8 200 Watts

Hope this helps.

al

Need any help with your wiring problems just e-mail me. Any and all comments are welcome. If you feel something should be added please let me know.

eMail=Al@AutoReWire.com

 

I have yet to see one of the inexpensive tools that will properly crimp these connectors. TE (Tyco) makes these connectors and pins/sockets proprietary for BMW/MINI, and purposely makes them so that they require specific tooling for application. The inexpensive tools mentioned above are designed for a standard open barrel terminal, anything from D-SUB to the various Molex/Amp/etc terminals. As Al mentions above, soldering is an option, but again - make sure you know what you are doing.

I am contemplating making our X9331 harness available for sale individually (i.e. without purchasing one of our kits). If so, it would likely be available sometime before year's end. This would be a single "T" harness that would alllow for the front/rear swap, and/or installation of a 2/3/4 channel amp. Pricing would be ~$100, which is less than the cost of the raw components and even the cheapest of tools required.

 

I hear you and can see the difference in tools used. That article from Al was one of the better ones explaining the crimp tool. Since then I have seen some more information about the expensive tools.

Currently, I have 40 dollars spent on materials:
The female and male connectors plus the terminal ends (12 each) for both were 32 dollars approx. at the BMW/MINI dealership.

So I need the tool and wires to finish plus my careful souldering technique and steady hands.

I guess I could see ~80 plus shipping :-). It's true, there is the added benefit of knowing you have a harness that's certain to be without trouble if purchased from Integral Audio.

I'd like to finish my project though... lol :-)

When did you think you'd have that harness available? Thanks again for keeping the conversation going. I am learning...hope others are as well.

 

Kevin - I'd buy a X9331 harness from you today if you had it. So if you are contemplating it, consider this a request to go ahead and do it. After reading about all of this, I don't want to invest in the tools to make my own and I certainly don't want to mess with something that can have such dire consequences for the car. Can you get it to market before it gets too cold to install the amp I have had in my basement for almost a year?

 

Sorry guys, we wouldn't be selling them until close to the end of the year at the earliest, assuming that the decision is made to sell them individually. These would be a bit different than the harnesses for our subwoofer and soundstage upgrades, and would require a production run.