So I just picked up my new mini about a week ago. I did previously have an 03 auto cooper, but decided to trade up to an 07 cooper s.

Basically i learned to shift on a 1967 MG midget. Cool car. I'm learning to shift better on my MINI though.

Anway, today i accidentally grinded the gear from second to third. OUCH! I've avoided grinding the gears in any manual car ive driven (so far just the MG midget and this MINI). But my question is, it hurt me very much, but how much did it hurt the car???? I'm worried about my new baby....I feel like such an idiot lol. It only ground for like half a second before i corrected the problem. Still it sounded terrible.

What actually mechanically occurs when you grind the gears as well? I think I have an idea but i'm not positive.

 

hey if you think thats bad, i learned for the first time on my mini, thankfully i got it down in under a day, but everytime i stalled that day, i shed a tear :(

 

grinding happens. You didn't hurt it much. Maybe if you ground it 300 times.... then.. we might see some results..

The grinding sound happens when the dog teeth on the purple collar trys to fit in the holes in the blue gears. You are not grinding the actual gears. (from howstuffworks.com)

 

The gear grinding noise is emitted from two (or more)physical sets of gear teeth coming into contact with each other while both gears are driven.

One gear set, on the idler shaft, carrying the synchronizers, spins freely when the clutch is disengaged. The other set of the gears is driven by the drive shaft of the car. If you fail to disengage the clutch while attempting to mate the idelr set of the gears to the driven gears, they *grind* against each other. That's the short version.

A little of this is not much of a problem and sounds worse than it is. The gear faces are hardened steel and can take a lot of abuse.

 

Whew. I'm relieved guys. lol. Thanks. Now I just gotta smooth out my shifting a bit. Get rid of that lil jerk between 1st and 2nd.

I'm not by any means a great, or even good, manual driver. But I sure am havin' fun learnin! I see some progress, slowly but surely!

 

Thanks for that pictorial. I learned something

 

While we're on the topic of shifting...I just learned yesterday how to drive a stick on my new mini, stalled a lot but nothing to serious. I have one downshifting question though. I'm confused as to whether or not to apply gas as I release the clutch when downshifting. I think to myslef that if I let off the clutch I might stall, but then again shouldn't the RPM's be high enough for the lower gear to let off the clutch without giving more gas...after all I'm trying to slow down not speed up.

 

IMO, it is better to use the brakes to slow down, rather than downshifting. The brake pads are relatively inexpensive compared to the engine and drivetrain. Downshift when you have slowed down and need to accelerate again, such as braking for a curve and then powering out of it.

However, to actually answer your question, ideally it is good to bring the revs up to where they would be when the lower gear is engaged. Having a great rpm disparity on the engine side of the clutch vs. the transmission side causes wear to the clutch and puts a strain on the whole drivetrain system. It isn't all that delicate, but no point in doing it if it isn't necessary.

 

So do you just put it in neutral when your going to slow down, apply the breaks, then shift into the appropriate gear as you start to accelerate out of a turn?

This is the way I've been doing it.

 

No, I don't put it neutral.
I apply the brakes and leave it in the high gear until shortly before I'm going to accelerate. The downshift is usually the beginning of the acceleration. It is sort of one opperation. I downshift just before I'm going to need power.

Putting it in neutral can have part of the transmission spinning at high speed when other parts are not. The brakes are doing most of the deceleration. The engine may contribute a little, but at less strain than if it were downshifted and throttle-off in the lower gear.

 

I've also grinded between 2nd and 3rd a few times (I think it's just an occasional breach in coordination) and the sound is heartbreaking! It's good to know that once in a blue moon isn't doing that much damage. I still try to avoid it at all costs, though.

Congrats on learning to drive a manual! My MINI is my first manual too, but my father taught me a few tricks that have really made things so much easier. When downshifting for a turn, etc., you're going to want to "blip" the throttle a little to raise the rpms just before you engage the clutch in the lower gear. This will not only make your downshift smoother, but it will also be a lot easier on your tranny.

So when slowing for a turn, this is what I do:

Brake while in higher gear until I am slow enough to enter the turn.
Clutch in, shift to lower gear, blip throttle, clutch out, accelerate.

 

[/quote]
So when slowing for a turn, this is what I do:

Brake while in higher gear until I am slow enough to enter the turn.
Clutch in, shift to lower gear, blip throttle, clutch out, accelerate.[/quote]

Sometimes when I break to a slow speed in a high gear to prepare for a turn, say around 20-25 mph in 4th, I can feel the engine somewhat lurching like it needs more gas. I'll definitely try out what you said though, all I need is more practice.

 

So when slowing for a turn, this is what I do:

Brake while in higher gear until I am slow enough to enter the turn.
Clutch in, shift to lower gear, blip throttle, clutch out, accelerate.[/quote]

Sometimes when I break to a slow speed in a high gear to prepare for a turn, say around 20-25 mph in 4th, I can feel the engine somewhat lurching like it needs more gas. I'll definitely try out what you said though, all I need is more practice.[/quote]

when you feel that lurch i would down shift bc when you acc. itll be a slowly hard accel.

and nice job choosing manual when you didnt know how to drive it, i did the same thing and i learned on my mini, BEST BEST decision.

 

Very scary! I believe you always want to be in gear to maintain control. I try to be in the gear I want to come out of the turn with before I make the actual turn . . . go in slow and come out fast. I'm not sure that is best for the track but it works very well on the road.

 

You should be able to go as low as idle rpm when decelerating. The engine is not pulling the car, the car is pushing the engine. Dropping below idle rpm is probably what feels wrong to you. I'm to lazy to calculate the number, so don't know what 20 mph in forth means in rpm.

However, don't be putting your foot down on the go pedal in 4th at idle rpm. Accelerating in too high a gear is the kind of thing that typically causes the engine to lurch. Definitely not good for the engine. Downshift before switching to the go mode.

The MCS should be quite tolerant of low rpm acceleration attempts because of all that low-end torque. I would be more concerned about it in the 8,000 rpm redlining Hondas.

 

Heel and toe is a technique people use to downshift while braking for a turn.
But a lot of times, I find very little time to shift if I am decelerating very quickly from 40 mph to 15 mph for a sharp turn. From 4th to 2nd..... within a couple of seconds. That's tough. So in those cases I often brake, put it in neutral while still braking just before the turn, turn while lifting brake, put it in 2nd and go.
In the turns where I have more time to brake, and if I am in the mood to run the engine in the higher rpm's, I use heel and toe to get it in the 2nd gear before entering the turn, turn, and gas...
When you blip the gas pedal for downshifting the difference in rpms is about 1000 rpms between the gears... ie. if you are driving in 4th at 2500 rpm and you want to downshift to 3rd, blip the gas pedal so that the rpm will be around 3500 rpm. I don't have my MCS so I don't know the exact difference but that's just a general rule of thumb for most cars.

 

Learning yourself seems like it could be hard. But imagine teaching someone how to drive a manual on your mini!:impatient

Thats what I did. Although turns out my girlfriend learns to pick up things really fast. Only two or three stalls, and one time grinding the gears some. Other than that we were good!

 

Lots of helpful info in this thread, any more tips on driving a stick with some finesse.

 

Hmm... If you don't have DSC and its rollback prevention, use the handbrake when starting on a steep hill. Slowly release the handbrake as you let out the clutch.

Don't keep your foot on the clutch pedal while driving.
Put it on the deadpedal.

 

As has been said before, proper use of a manual transmission includes downshifting. As any professional driver will tell you, it is the proper way to maintain control. Brakes only slowing is not safe and does not save your drivetrain. Even automatics downshift. Downshifting does not hurt the drivetrain anymore than upshifting, unless you over-rev. Of course, you can do more damage by lugging in upshifts.

 

I'm assuming you blip the throttle after you've moved the gear to N, then proceed into 3rd...if this is the case do I still need to apply gas as I release the clutch, or can I just: blip, clutch in, move to 3rd, foot off clutch, then apply gas as I come out of the turn?

 

I've been driving a stick for 11 years now (same car) and grinding is gonna happen once in awhile. It usually happens when I'm distracted. I prolly have done it about 5 or 6 times for a very brief moment. I haven't worried about it and there seems to be no ill effects. I normally use the engine to slow down by downshifting and applying the brakes at the same time. My front brakes lasted 113K miles. I have 115K on the car.

 

You're confusing Heel-Toe/Downshift Rev Matching with Double-Clutching. Double Clutching is used on manual transmission cars without synchros. Heel-Toe is a race driving technique to allow faster exit out of a turn/Deceleration control.

Idealy you'd want to match the revs before downshifting. Using the clutch to "Spin up" the flywheel puts a LOT of wear on the clutch. I usually clutch, blip the throttle up 1k RPM's or so while at the same time downshifting, then release. Heel toe isn't really required for every day driving, and it's more of a "Impress your friends" or "Canyon Carving" technique than anything. There's no reason to double clutch on a modern car...

 

Yes, blip with the clutch depressed while moving the shift lever with the hand. All four limbs are in action!!

 

Yep, that's me too wheher it's the Mini or the S3 (see gallery). Just get distracted/lazy as I roll along. Usually it's just a matter of too easy on the shift lever or not enough clutch. Thankfully I usually drive the Mini in a more "businesslike" state of mind. Drive, he said!