I've been using a 2.1 MP Fuji FinePix 2650 for a couple of years now, and while I was ecstatic about it at first and would heartily recommend it to a beginner (especially since they can be had for $99 now), I'm definitely finding myself cramped by it as I become more enthusiastic about digital photography. Taking pictures has become a huge part of traveling for me, especially hiking and backpacking. I've been pleasantly surprised at my results with the Fuji, and am excited to see what I can do with a "real" digital camera!

So, in looking for an upgrade, my priorities were the following:
1. 4 or 5 MP so that I can print 8"x10"
2. Full (or near full) manual control of focus, aperture, shutter speed, etc.
3. Reasonably small and light, because I'm going to bring it backpacking. I decided to use 1.5 pounds as the cutoff.
4. Image stabilization - I like to shoot in low light without flash, and would like to experiment with higher ISOs at telephoto range. This to me seems like a "why not?!" feature to have, especially since blurring has been a common problem for me.
5. AA-size batteries. It kills me that so many digicams use proprietary battery packs. I want to have my camera for more than a few years, and don't want to have to stockpile expensive batteries in case they become obsolete and mine lose capacity.
6. Well-respected, high-quality brand - Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, Konica-Minolta. I will never again buy anything Sony.
7. Minimal "purple fringing" type color aberrations.
8. Photo results that stack up well against the competition.
9. Willing to spend up to $900-ish, but prefer more in the $600-700 range.
10. Something introduced in the last 6-9 months, so that I know I'm getting a good value as prices drop and technology gets better.

After several days of reviewing what's out there, I've pretty much settled on the Panasonic DMC-FZ20:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz20/
Frankly, I'm absolutely amazed that this camera can be had for around $500. The above review could find very little to fault with it - in fact, nothing of any real substance. The only problem I have with it is the proprietary battery. The alternatives that used AA-type batteries all had much bigger deal-breakers.

The other cameras that I weighed the FZ20 against were:
Canon Digital Rebel - a bit too pricy.
Canon PowerShot S1 IS - cheap, but only 3.2 MP, and fringing problems.
Panasonic DMC-FZ3 - much smaller, but only 3 MP
Konica-Minolta DiMAGE Z3 - hard to say why, but this one just doesn't grab me. Photo quality didn't seem to be highly regarded. No image stabilization.
Nikon D70 - a bit big & heavy, no image stabilization
Olympus C-770 UZ - no image stabilization, only 3.9 MP

I'd welcome any feedback from anyone who's actually read this far (Dave? ), or who has experience with this Panasonic or with Panasonics in general.

Thanks!
Chris

P.S. Some BEAUTIFUL shots have been posted in this forum! Wow. Nice work, everybody.

 

1st, I don't have any experience with Panasonic. I'll read through that review over lunch and post a follow-up to this afterwards if I see anything to have you consider.

As for the list of other contenders, I don't see the Canon Digital Rebel on your list. It's selling for $900 now and there is a $100 rebate from Canon. Weight/Size may be a bit of an issue given your situation, but it's worth a look (especially now that you can get them with the all black body).

The main thing that will help you with low light photography without flash and avoiding blurriness is a tripod. That enables longer shutter usage.
There are little table top tripods (maybe 8 to 10" tall) that sell for $20 or so. I would get one of those for sure regardless of which camera you get. They are lightweight and easy to stuff in a day pack. If you're already worried about the weight of a DSLR, chances are you're not going to want to lug around a full size tripod, but if you do, see the thread "Tripod Advice" in this forum.

Dave

 

I use the canon s50 (5MP+loads of controls) as my stuff in the pocket, everyday "beater" digicam. Its a great camera and probably has the most features Ive seen stuffed into such a small package, full array manual controls etc...main reason why I bought it. I know you want something that uses conventional batteries, but for your ideal price range $600-700, I can't think of any other digi I would want. There's a couple newer models out s60-70 i believe, but if you can find an s50 its probably going to run close to 400bux now...and for that price try beating the features even if you're willing to spend almost 800bux. I've picked up several spare batteries for it on ebay for ~$3. Yes I'm serious for 3bux these batteries last much longer than the one that comes with it (1200mAh compared to 570). Just pick up two or 3 extras and you're good to go for a couple thousand shots
Good luck.

Few examples:

 

Mini tripod is key...It's the best $10 you can spend to help improve your shooting endeavors...

 

Here's the one I got. The Slik MINI Pro III



Back to camera talk.

 

I have the Canon digital Rebel and it's great, 6.3 mpixels. the best thing is that it's the size of a 35mm camera and works just the same, it's a slr. It also uses Canon 35mm lens, so you can go to the local camera shop and buy some really great used auto focus lens from the 35mm range and use them, and the quality can't be beat. imho

 

The D70 would certainly be an excellent choice, but it's probably a bit out of your price range. You'd need at least one lens for it, of course, though the kit lens is reasonably priced and, from what I've read, quite a bit better than the Digital Rebel's kit lens (note that I'm not saying that Nikon lenses are better than Canon lenses, only that the D70 kit lens is better; in general the two companies make lenses that are pretty evenly matched). Also, you get image stabilization (or vibration reduction, as Nikon calls it) with the D70 if you get a VR lens.

It looks like you've put some thought into this and your priorities make a lot of sense. I'd like to hear how you like the Panasonic.

I agree with the recommendation to get a tripod. It's one of the best purchases you can make to improve picture quality.

Mark

 

Dave (et al), thanks for the input! I'll definitely look into picking up one of those tripods; it could easily be lashed onto the outside of my backpack for hiking.

As far as the Canon Digital Rebel goes, I guess when I compare it to the FZ20, the first thing that jumps out at me is the ~$400 price difference, even with the rebate. It's slightly heavier, and doesn't have image stabilization (maybe I'm weighing that more than I should, but I literally am ALWAYS playing around with low light conditions, and I definitely won't always have a tripod with me).

I also have sort of a philosophical problem with the fact that it lacks a number of great features only because they were programmed out so that the camera wouldn't compete with Canon's higher end, more expensive models. As great a camera as it is, I don't think I want to play along with that game and encourage other companies to do the same. I guess that's just me being a stubborn consumer and cutting off my nose to spite my face, or whatever that saying is...

I haven't heard anything particularly BAD about Panasonic, but I admit I don't know much about their cameras overall. I consider them to be a reliable brand only because I know that their audio/video components, TVs, etc. tend to be very reliable. They also seemed to have a much fuller range of cameras than many other brands, which seems to indicate that their newer models have the benefit of lots of design history and evolution.

 

...and it comes in all black, too!

 

Chris,

I just read the dpreview review you linked in the first post. Looks like a very solid camera. One feature that didn't get more than passing interest that I think is important is that the lens hood lets you attach filters. Neutral Density filtering can be very useful for lengthening out shutter times (example presented further down in this post). Also a circular polarizer would be on my list.

eshaun posted this in the In Motion How-to thread. The comment is relevant over here too.

This is very true. P&S can take some great shots. Just take a look at the calendar contest, a lot of pictures were done on P&S. Another example would be Hafid's photography. Again, all P&S.

As you consider the various cameras, one thing to keep in mind regarding P&S versus DSLR is how hard you have to work to get the camera to do what you want.

With my P&S, manual mode does allow you to control aperture and shutter to an extent. There are two aperture settings, one at F/2.8 and another at F/7.6. The shutter speeds top out at 1/500 (As far as I recall). That *may* be enough depending on what you want. To adjust shutter and aperture, you have to drill down through the menus.

For that panasonic, it says there is an aperature priority mode, and that it has F/2.8 throughout the range, but I didn't see what the smallest aperature available was. The "test" images in the review were at F/5.2 and F/5.6, so it looks like the camera has some pretty good adjustability, but like I said, I couldn't see what the smallest aperture was. I'm guessing that the aperture and shutter priority adjustments are done through the camera menues. The modes change off the dial on top.

Now, compare that to a DSLR where you have aperture and shutter control with dials right on the body for quick adjustment. You also have shutter speeds up to 1/8000th of sec and full aperture adjustment in 1/3rd stop increments (depending on the lens down to the F/22 to F/29 range). So where my P&S has two aperture settings, the DSLR would give me maybe 10 times the number of choices and cover much more in terms of the range of apertures to select from.

All of that adjustability can be very important.

Let's say you want to do a long duration (2 second) shot of moving water to make the stream look soft and glassy. My P&S will only go down to F/7.6, so that means a lot of light is still coming in and as a result in normal daylight, there may be too much light to get a shutter even speed approaching 1 second. With a DSLR, I could set the lens to F/29 (a very small hole for light to trickle through), maybe use a Neutral Density Filter to slow down the amount of light even more, and shutter speeds of 2 seconds would be shootable, without overexposing the picture.

All that said, I would go to a camera store and get you hands on one. Look for how hard it is to make adjustments to the aperture and shutter settings. I would also try to find out what the smallest aperture is. From what I've read, it definitely looks like a camera worth further consideration if not purchasing.

Dave

 

Here is another review of the Panasonic (actually, it's the FZ15 with details of the differences in the FZ20). This site has pretty extensive reviews of every digicam I've ever looked for a review on.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/fz15.html

 

A bit off the subject, but important to consider, is focus/acquire time.

While on a whale watching trip last year in Maine, I shot 200 photos of water, because the whales had submerged by the time my CoolPix 9900 was able to shoot.

So, I bought a Canon DigiRebel. Its focus/acquire time is every bit as fast as a film SLR.

If you shoot action stuff, the lag time on point and shoot digi's is enough to drive you nuts.

I carry a Canon S500 as my pocket camera, but anytime I shoot something moving, its the Rebel for me.

 

I'm psyched that it comes with the hood; I do get glare problems a lot in bright sunlight. As far as filters go, I'm not a knowledgeable enough photographer to know what sort of filters I would use and why... One of my goals with buying a camera like this, though, is learning about things like that. Same goes for apertures, shutter speeds, etc. - I learned all of that back in high school, but have used only point-and-shoot cameras since.

See, now there's something that's just completely over my head. But I'll take your word for it.

Judging from the results I've gotten from my 2.1 MP P&S, I'm sure I could get some really great pictures with a much nicer P&S - especially one with some degree of manual control, as you mention. I'm hoping, though, to return to being a bit more involved with taking the picture, and able to manipulate those settings and know why I'm doing it. I'd like to have a bit more fun with the process of TAKING the picture, instead of just playing with them on my computer.

Obviously the DSLR is the other extreme, control-wise, from the P&S, but those are just waaay too big and bulky for my purposes. I went to a store tonight and saw the Rebel, and it was just way, way beyond the size that I'm looking for. Beautiful camera, but way too big. The two stores I went to (CompUSA and a crappy local place) didn't carry the Panasonic, but they had two sort of similarly sized cameras - the Nikon 8700 and the Canon PowerShot Pro1 (both 8 MP). Those were much more tolerable as far as lugging along on a camping trip. I definitely don't want the 8 MP, though - I can't see where it would get me, other than burning through memory cards faster.

This weekend I'll resume my quest to actually find the FZ20 in a store and play with it...

Thanks, Agro, for that other review, too!

 

The FZ20 is now on its (slow) way to me in the mail! I haven't been this excited about a purchase since I bought my MINI 2+ years ago.

Dave, on your recommendation, I read up on filters, and ended up ordering a polarizer, a UV-protector, and an FL-D, which is supposed to help while shooting under fluorescent lighting (though I'm not sure how often I'll be doing that...)

Next I just have to find a decent water-resistant case for it, and then I can't wait to take it on my next camping trip. I can't wait to have it PERIOD. I played with one in a store on Friday, and loved it. I really like the size, too - it's just small enough that I can see bringing it on just about any hiking trip.

 

If you're going to be lashing this to the outside of your pack I would still put your camera inside a couple of ziplocks, no matter what the case says about being water resistant.

FWIW, compactflash cards can go through the washing machine with detergent and fabric softener and images will still be ok. I didn't send mine for a follow-up trip into the dryer, but it may be good for that too (although I have a feeling heat isn't the greatest for the little guys).

 

I looked hard at the FZ-20 but I couldnt pull the trigger. Have you seen it in person? You can hold one at Circuit City. Thats the only major chaing I know that carries Panasonic.

I was looking for similar requirements but small and light were higher up on my list.... I wanted something that I wouldnt hesitate to bring with me instead of the dSLR and was silent (which the dSLR isnt). The FZ-20 is a great camera, especially for the price but its freaking HUGE. I figured if I was going to get somethign that big, I might as well be looking at dSLRs or the LC1 (which is an awesome camera).

 

Yeah, it's definitely not a camera that you throw in your jacket pocket. I already have a 2.1 MP Fuji that I can do that with, though, and so far I've been happy with the photos it takes (although maybe they'll seem terrible once I get used to the FZ-20). It's definitely going to be a change in lifestyle as far as hiking and camping goes, always having a case swinging around instead of a camera in my pocket, but for me I think the tradeoff will be worth it. It's too big to fit in a pocket, but not so big that I'll need a huge case - much smaller than the Rebel or the D70. I'm actually hoping to find something that I can attach directly to my frame pack's shoulder straps. And don't worry Dave, I won't trust anything short of a ziploc once it's actually raining, or overnight.

 

Chris,
Check out the Tamrac Velocity sling series. Its a nice little system that lets you wear the camera behind you but you can slide it around and take it out without removing anything. Adorama sells all the sizes. That said, check out Crumpler bags too. They make good products and their website is great entertainment. Good luck with the camera!

 

The Crumpler site rocks. http://www.crumplerusa.com is their USA Site and make sure to check out their Features Page

 

Hey Chris - I received my FZ20 just a few days ago. So far I love it. I am still learning how to use it but I have already taken a few not bad pics. Attached is one of my favs so far. See my gallery for full size and other pics. Only the four most recent pics are with the FZ20. When I went out for my first attempt at night pics I wasn't using the manual exposure meter properly and I ended up with a lot of underexposed pics, so there are only 4 for now. Next time I will know what I am doing, somewhat I hope...



My gallery: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...0&ppuser=11502

 

Just got mine a couple of days ago as well, and I really haven't had time to play with it yet. Either I;ve been at work, or it's been dark and rainy. Tonight I'll be at a concert. I'm hoping to take it out to play on Saturday, but I'm also still waiting for a larger memory card in the mail - right now I just have the 16MB it comes with.

Nice shots, though! I can't wait to post some of my own!

Still trying to find a case I like, too. I really want one that's as small as possible while fitting the camera with the hood and a few filters. I like those Lumix ones on eBay, but I can't get the person selling them to e-mail me back and tell me whether or not they have zipper closure, or if it's just a velcro flap... Haven't found a Tamrac or a Crumpler that seems to fit the bill.

 

I got a bag by Roots, not big enough for the hood though.

 

Chris,

How are you liking your Panasonic after having had it for a little while? I have a friend possibly interested in that camera.

Dave