Hi, I've had 2 cooper s (2006, 2012) in the past...considering finally getting a used JCW...summer is approaching and all.. and just want to drive a mini again (miss it that much)

I am a terrible negociator, I'd like to have your thoughts on this:

24 595$ for a 2016 JCW with 35 000 km...? as there are very few JCW on the market (in my part of the world) ...its hard to compare
Or

21 498$ for a 2016 JCW with 70 000 km

Ive been reading a lot on this forum and all...and i just feel overwhelmed with all the information available....what should i look for/avoid..etc ? Any help would greatly be appreciated ..
ps: main use will be daily driving,

 

as a reference I purchased a 2016 JCW with 16k miles and fully loaded, for 20k. The JCW does not sell well on used lots since people don't know what they are, so might be able to find something sitting on a lot for a while. Mine sat on lot for 6 months.

My car has been super reliable even with all of the tuning I have done.

 

My opinion: All depends where in the world you are. Price comparisons will make a little more sense if the board have that to go on.
On top of that - a large metro area vs a smaller rural canadian town will impact prices. also if you have an out of whack expectation list and price - and you have limited candidates.....

Judging by the dollars and kilometres combo maybe Canada?

As an anecdote:
Vancouver BC prices from winter 2019/2020:

Craigslist prices were lower than the CPO mini dealer prices by a good 3-5G
Typically i had no more than 4 to look at on line - some weeks a few more, some less. I used the mini.ca CPO search as a start. combined with the usual suspects for private/non dealer sales.

What i included in analysis
min and max prices id be willing to pay. loaded cooper s vs less loaded JCW. JCW must have features vs nice to haves. Auto vs manual. value to me of CPO/mini extended vs not.
I went in from there

I didnt put too much stock on what others in other cities and countries paid. Id bet the majority of owners here had emotions and want higher than the price grind and need.
Id also direct you to the Art of the deal thread on this site.
The bloke starting it writes a lot of sense and it should help you ID what approach works for you. its also a good read with many adding their flavours. You have some research homework to do

end of the day its your choice and its right for you. screw what we think

 

What are the packages of the 2 JCWs you are considering and what are you going to do with it? Track, daily driver, twisty monster? If it is to be a daily driver does either one have the dynamic damper system? That is really a nice feature for a daily driver. Does it have the JCW PRO exhaust? What is most important for you as far as options go?

 

I live in montreal so maybe a Canadian opinion would help. My preference on used is to go with lower km, but lots has to do with the history of the car, how it was maintained and how much you’ll be driving it. If you’re in the GTA and that’s highway mileage vs. 35km in montreal and it will wear differently. Besides, remember it’s been 4 winters old and probably dealer maintained since it’s just off lease, probably purchased through auction. Look up vmrcanada.com if you want to see the wholesale value of the car and shoot for that. If the cars been sitting on the lot for 30 days the carrying cost for the dealer start to go up so they are going to turn it for closer to what they bought it for. Lots of lease returns are dealer optioned cars built to hit a sellable price, so while JCW is nice, they can also be lacking key features you’ll like more than big brakes. The Cooper S can be easily, safely tuned to give you a similar experience and more creature comforts. A JCW tuning kit is on sale for about $2k cdn so you’ll have 85% of a JCW with a much bigger selection of used cars.

 

Hey thanks for feedback. Yes, im near Montreal area. Roads are worst than **** here lol. To be honest, i'd like to own a JCW once in my life. I felt the last cooper S i had...wasnt that "powerful" . Was fun in sport mode...but still a bit lacking to my liking. Also, all im asking in terms of options are: sunroof, led headlights, hk system, heated seat. Im nearing 40 yo. I dont need to flash or make a lot of noise with my car ..In reality, i just find it so much fun to drive a mini and i love the look. Also, i dont really need NAV and all that crap..basically except the options i mentionned, i dont care for the rest.

My main worry if going for the 35K KM one ...is like dropping about 30K CAN$ (including taxes and all)..and not knowing how the car has been treated. My worry for the 70K Km one, is the same plus having to do heavy maintenance in 30k Km or so (once it reaches 100KM ...having to do suspension, bolt joints, clutch or whatnot)....And lets be honest, im sure that both of these cars have been pushed/abused to a certain degree (espacially being leased and all and our legendary discusting roads here in montreal).

For reference, here are the 2 ads:

https://minibrossard.com/en/shopping.../detail/M02056 (70K km) @ 1.99% interest rate by Mini

https://groupeparkavenue.com/en/inve...2semaine-p0511 (35k Km) @5.99 interest rate by BWM

So basically, my dilemma is either going for the JCW that is a 2016 with 35k km for about 30K$ CAN...or go for a brand new Cooper S 2020...for like 33K $...(maybe the newer MCS 2020 has a more powerful/torque engine than the MCS 2012 i had).

@AirborneMini003 , does that 2k$ tuning kit void the mini warranty? (in canada) and is it installed by mini ?
@curlywurly Thank for the tip on "the art of the dea"..ill check it up. Aslo, I get what you're saying...however, i dont have good knowledge of cars in general ( their worth, what to look for/avoid..especially for cars like minis) ..just trying to get ur opinions..maybe u guys will see something i dont. And to be honest, pushing 40K $ for a brand new JCW (naked)...i dont kown man...starting to get expensive lol..I guess i kinda have a psychological barrier @ 30K$ :P

 

it is hard for most Americans to understand the Canadian market. We are as populated as California with different buying habits geographically and regulations that make the economies of scale different for car brands to be profitable. Also why we get more packaged deals. Our taxes are so high there is less discretionary income and in Quebec, 85% of cars are leased not bought. Mini Canbec (now Mt royal) is the worst in my opinion. Laval is amazing and Brossard is ok. I was negotiating to buy a car from there and wouldn’t budge on my offer. I ended up buying my car from Ontario and shipping it. It was a fantastic deal. I wanted a JCW too, but couldn’t justify the premium when my car has every option you can get and every JCW I saw was either bare or a fortune. The tuning kit is an Oem part so you get 2 years warranty on it, and it’s factory and badges if you want one. The Cooper S has deals, I have a clubman so I paid full Retail for mine. You’re also looking at a 3 door and manual which is a car that appeals to a much smaller niche in a niche market already. The 2016 JCW with 35k fully optioned is worth $21k wholesale and $24k retail, you can see their target margins are 12-15%. They will start at 15% close at 10%, up sell you on stuff or make on your trade in. I’d bet if you offer $21k, finish at $22k-22.5 you’d both feel happy. Get them to throw in winter tires, free tire storage, mats, things that cost you but not them and you’ll bridge the gap. if they can make 5% on a car with no interest or exposure, and win a customer to service off warranty, they will be plenty happy.


read this article, it might help shine some light on the decision against factory JCW.

http://www.motoringfun.com/2015/11/0...cw-tuning-kit/

 

this is a wildly low mileage cooper S seven edition from a Reputable leasing company.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/mini/cooper%203%20door/mont-royal/quebec/5_46895161_20151015115241127?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse= no&showVs=1&ursrc=mhl&orup=16_20_67&pc=H4R%202C8&s prx=1000

or a private sale. You only pay 1 tax on private sales and you know they owned it

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/mini/john%20cooper%20works/l'Épiphanie/quebec/19_11372359_?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&showVs=1&orup =59_20_67&pc=H4R%202C8&sprx=1000&modalXS=1

 

Because they both have a standard trans, I would go for the one with less miles, and haggle over the price.

 

so I almost purchased a 7 edition. The only thing that makes is special is some stickers and badging, but they still want extra money.

 

My JCW is a daily driver, I do have an aftermarket exhaust from AEW. I do have DDC, that I really like. So if you want to track then I would go without the sun roof. The option adds several hundred pounds to the top of the car. I really like the HUD. I hope this helps. I drive my JCW really hard. I have added a used Dinan Elite and lowed with HR springs (again used). this makes all the difference in the world to the JCW.

 

In front of the TV fire up the mini.ca on line config and attempt to build a mini cooper s new. add the options you REALLY want only. Get rid of the cartoon stock alloys. You may be mildly suprised to see it hover around 40K. this is for an S not a JCW. it gets closer to 50 then....

I play this game when the missis is away and im home drinking. 39/41K CDN is about my 'i can live with this' spec. IE - not loaded. For a cooper s.*

*There is a 'limited edition' JCW edition version of the Cooper S in CDN dealers now. Some dealers have a couple on their lots. List is around 39K. One of those could likely be had for 35 or less. Its really a carefully selected option pack that isnt typically available in canada - not super special, but might pique your interest.

I extend that logic out and say - well i should be able to get a used CPO car for around 9percent off the mini dealiers used car starting point. and i then search the certified used inventory from the mini canada nationwide site.
i pleyed with the filter by for all three doors. included all 3 door models

loaded coopers (we dont get the mini ONE in canadianland), as well as S and JCW. set a price range i like .
After a few rounds i had a good idea on what is a 'market' price. i extended my candidates one province over...i then looked off the mini channels for the usual suspects.

My conclusion

was i could find a well loaded CPO cooper s with less than 10K on the clock for a lot less than a new configured by me stripper s.
Or i could get a JCW with a good load for less than a reasonable load new cooper s.
(i settled on a JCW on mini next/CPO. 12tho KMS. $34k from $39.5 original asking. sitting on a lot for a month)

Whatever is important for you factor that in.

I did find one local mini dealer that i actually enjoyed talking to, both before id got serious and during/after the OK- lets deal moment.
Maybe u could take inputs on which local-to-you mini dealer is the least ******. Hve an honest email/chat maybe with the used car manager.
Hey - im half considering x or y - whats your thought?

I am introverted and hate most interactions- and started the chat via email to avoid the face to face. it worked out OK for me.

i would say - Dont rush the decision.

I took my time as i didnt 'need' to replace my previous car. i actually enjoyed the research and buying experience for the first time. This board helped a chunk with that. Mini in North America dont do as good a job as mini uk in marketing the packages, explaining what the options include, why they are good etc. Ive even played with the new car configuration tool on the mini Uk site - to satisfy curiosity on the workflow and process. Man its a lot more detailed and educational. self education ruled out for me stuff i didnt want....

Have fun man.

 

I did wonder about Laval. They are listed at the schnitzer distributor for canada - and link to the price list and catalogue on their main site. Ive emailed twice asking to confirm prices and availability and got nothing. I'll call them as you say they are good......

 

I found mini Laval because I wanted a schnitzered clubman. I realized shortly after that 19’s, lowering springs and exhaust tips would ruin my car trying to drive over the potholes in montreal or plow snow in the winter. Julien at laval was super patient with my flip flopping between Dinan, JCW and schnitzer. He tried to convince me to wait until a discount comes up this summer, that straight shooting from a dealer I can buy into. I disliked my experience elsewhere and actually lost it on the parts guy at Canbec trying to get a quote on the tuning kit.

I figure he wouldn’t mind me sharing his info:
julien.fernandes@bmwlaval.com

 

thankyou for this.

 

a pleasure, happy to contribute to the community, and rare to find other locals here. It seems mini club Quebec is no more. You can tell Julien that Jamie referred you. I told him to check our NAM

 

Local to canada - im out west in Vancouver. I appreciate the laval connection. So much european distribution is waay East of here.

My original inquiry for schnitzer - via a bmw/mini aftermarket shop in Vancouver has dead ended
They dismissed my part number/ pricing info i emailed as a start - all from from schnitzer in canadian.
Their response ballparked schnitzer USA prices, Converted into Canadian, added shipping and duty from US to Canada, Then their fee.

 

I thought I would price check the exhaust tips when I was in Germany. I figured it was pretty common there and in could get the VAT back. I wrote a few dealers, and they were about $50 cheaper than BMW Laval assuming I got the Tax credit. Then I’d have to get them installed. It wasn’t a hard choice. Their labor rates are dealer and install hours seem longer than most shops I must say. I would expect they would have my back if I had an issue.

 

Finally bought it


Anyone got a NM module for sale or ...available to ship to canada? :P

 

I must admit though...the feel of the car is quite different from my previous MCS 2006....this f56 jcw feels like a boat compared to the MCS 2006 :O

 

Congrats Chammir, enjoy!

 

Thanks @AirborneMini003 Im getting used to the car...its not as go-kart like as a R53 or R56 ..but still ..its a lot of fun. I now understand what people meant when they were saying ...it feels more like a BMW lol.. the mid range torque is very good ...just missing a bit of torque early on I find...Tbh, im wondering if a NM module is even worth it??...i already have a hard time staying under 140km/hr on the highway...

ps: anyone know if a NM module is available in canada?

 

I have a Cooper S loaner today. My first time driving one. It’s very different from the Clubman, the dynamics are much better but it is far less refined and BMW esque. I also own an X1 which you can feel is the same platform. I had a 2006 r53 too so i know what you mean, the f series is not a visceral experience. I’d say drive it for a couple weeks and see what you like. I hear great things about NM but the Dinan sport module might give you what you need too. I look forward to seeing you at one of the local mini meets. I’d like to get a group together to drive down to Burlington for Mini takes the states in July.

 

you are not wrong the new JCW feels much larger and less nimble at first. If you lower the car it makes a world of difference. Once you get used to the car you will notice that it is pretty nimble and predictable. I enjoy mine every day.

 

@AirborneMini003 sounds good, Burlington is not that far actually.. less than 2 hrs from where I live. Do you know if there is a facebook group or something for us locals?
@madmix Indeed, one way to describe it is that I feel the front end of the car isn't "planted"...like it's floating and not gripping enough. Although, when I picked up the car it had all season run flats, which im switching today. By law, we are required to have winter tires on until march 15th...I'll be putting Continental Vikings 7...for April I already have my Michelin pilot super sport 4 .Also, the car still has 1 year manufacturer warranty on it. Until then, I dont want to do any mods that would void it. Is lowering the car an expensive thing to do? (as in do I also need to add new parts?).I think I have the adjustable suspension (drive train + chassis) thing. Also keeping in mind, next year I'll be moving for 1-2 years in a very remote area...where the closest BMW dealer is 8 hrs away lol...So if need be, I wont have access to them .