Hi, I can get either 2013 John Cooper Works All4 or a Cooper S All4...
Please explain the difference?
I occasionally run into a Cooper S with a JCW Trim package. I would like to know the "mechanical" identifiers for the 2013 JCW.
N18 Engine?
This Turbo v that?
Mechanics (brakes, suspension, etc)?

Thank you!

 

Where's all the geeks around here? No rants about compression ratios etc. Is there a thread for Monroni stickers? Thanks

 

I think you will find that most people who are geeks about MINIs know the details about the three door hatch, not so much the CM.

The big difference between the JCW and the S is HP. Going from recollection, I think the JCW is 208 vs 182 for the S. Most of this difference is the ECU turn, but I think there is a different turbo.

The most noticeable visual differences are the red roof and mirrors, and the larger front and rear (?) brakes with red calipers on the JCW. The front calipers on the JCW are 4 piston Brembos. On the hatch, the rear brake rotors are larger on the JCW than the S; I’m not sure on the CM.

On the hatch, the JCW vs S suspension is upgraded with stiffer shock, springs and front and rear sway bars. Also on the hatch, the S came with 16” wheels with options for 17”, the JCW came with 17”. Not sure on the CM.

And there will be JCW badges all around the JCW vs the S badges.

Specific details on part differences can be found on realoem.com.

That is the little that I know. Hope it helps.

BTW - I’d buy the JCW...

 

Get the JCW, you will not regret it

 

go JCW.. i had an R58 S custom built and after a year wish i had splurged on the JCW. JCW builds have reinforced headers, bigger turbo, better tune, different exhaust too. JCW Tuning kits only does the tune and exhaust i believe and don't output as much HP as a true JCW.

 

So JCW is kinda the M3 version of the Mini Countryman? I've had an e36 M3 and the 330i ZHP (e46 Factory nod to the e36 M3)
Thanks!

 

JCW is like the M of the BMW world and the GP MINI is like the CSL version. GP version only came in the hardtops (small R53,R56, and F56) as a limited edition.

 

Ok here's the question...

Am currently rehoming a 1988 4Runner (receives compliments often). I was going to replace it with the R60 All4S.

I also have the e46 ZHP (300i sedan with 247 hp, 6 on the floor and M package)

Would you replace the e46 ZHP (300i sedan with 247 hp and M package) with a R60 Countryman All4 JCW?

 

Nope, the R60 JCW is only 208-ish HP and probably weighs as much. Sedan vs SUV (even a R60) vs fun - I’d take the E46. I’d replace the 4Runner with the R60 JCW - more fun, short of doing a lot of off-roading.

 

Ok, I like the JCW specs. Don't like the side skirts and lowering. The terrain where I live will tear it up and as it is I cringe every time I hit something with the ZHP. Can the JCW be put at normal Countryman height and remove the side skirts?

 

Lowered? Did it say by how much?

I don’t know the options for the R60, but for the R56 the JCW had a base suspension and an optional suspension (JCW Sports Suspension, that came with red springs). On the R56 the base JCW suspension is the same height as the S and base Cooper. The optional suspension only lowered the car by 10mm (~3/8 inch). Not a lot. Could that be the case for the JCW specs you are looking at? That is, that are you looking at specs for the R60 with an optional suspension? Most R56 JCWs came with the base suspension, as the optional suspension was expensive.

Springs should be interchangeable between the different models of the R60 and you should be able to put a set of S springs in. Similarly, the side skirts are cosmetic and should be interchangeable with an S or Base model.

Another option is to do a search on NAM here for threads by people who have raised their R60s. I know I have seen a few of that type of discussion here.

 

I have a 2013 CM S ALL4, my son has a 2013 JCW Paceman. The Paceman is definitely much lower even though it doesn't have the sport suspension. I really like the stance of the Paceman. If you have terrain to deal with, even the stock JCW suspension probably won't work for you. I'm sure you could raise it with springs and shocks.

 

Hi all, thank you for your explanations. Yes I have a terrain to deal with. Some dirt roads. The JCW I'm looking at has the "sport suspension settings" and the 19" rims. Don't know if it was modified beyond that. Would like it to be at least "standard" height if not adding the 2inch lift kit. I'm OK with leaving the front spoiler and rear spoiler , but the rocker panel spoiler...yeah that's got to be removed.

The JCW was a trade in at another auto dealership. It is a little higher mileage. N18 engine and stick.

If not this R60 JCW I'm also looking at a standard R60 CMS ALL4 60k+ miles (no suspension settings option) that was a lease return to the Mini dealer. The Mini dealer is reconditioning it and said it would be eligible for the Mini Warrenty.

Opinions are welcome.

 

An option is to go with a slightly taller tire, no matter which version you go with. This will give you added sidewall height as well as clearance. A half inch will do a lot to prevent tire and wheel damage. MINI tends to put on slightly smaller tires on their cars than what the cars can use...

Warranties are always great! From what I hear from a friend with a R60 CMS ALL4, he loves it.

 

Hi all, thank you for your input. After looking at some of these JCWs at this dealer and that I decided to go with the Countryman S All4/6speed manual that was being reconditioned by the MINI dealer. It had less miles, was a stick and complete service records. Oxford green, black roof, tobacco interior. I figure the NAM forum could help me make it go a little faster. I've had an e36M3 and still have the e46i ZHP (247hp on a 330i/w6speed from the factory, sport suspension settings, M-brakes). I figured condition would be more important since this is my first MINI. Because of the terrain where I live, taller tires like Yokahama Geolanders, Koni FSD shocks and the JB+ Tune to start will keep me busy for a while. Then maybe a lift kit, thicker swaybars and a real tune? Not a JCW but it seems there a plenty of parts out there to kinda get it close. Maybe later a real JCW.

 

Congratulations! Sounds like a winner!

Pictures or it didn’t happen...

The Manic stage 1 tune would be a great option. JB is ok from what I have read, but the Manic is way better. The JBs show up on the NAM marketplace from time to time. Look there for one. Get a Helix intercooler; they are an easy install and the intake temp reduction is really good, especially with any kind of tune.. Don’t bother with the sway bars. For the type of driving you are doing (at least what I can tell from what you have said here), they will stiffen things in a way that might not be good. You will loose some independence between the left and right side of the car. If you are doing shocks, get a set of IE fixed camber plates. The are made with a plate that will protect the shock tower and the bearings are heavier BMW bearings. The camber increase is modest, but the improvement in the steering turn-in is greatly improved.

Enjoy!

 

Hi Eddie07S, The dealer is FedExing the paperwork to me. Will post pictures soon. Thank you for the upgrade info. That's good to know about the camber plates and the sway bars. Of course the M3 and the ZHP have the thicker sway bars. I've been oK with the stiffer suspension until I get onto the dirt roads...they are both factory lower cars...scrape scrape cringe ugh. I've been reading different opinions about how the Countryman handles the A226 suspension settings then I looked up the ZHP and it's the exact same numbered option. Some people say the A226 on the CMS is harsh and jumpy other say they love it. I'll be upgrading little by little so I can see how it affects the fun factor and make a comparison.

About the tune with intercooler...I thought I read somewhere that at some point you have to change out the piston arms? bearings? rings? Bolts! yeah that was it the bolts when tuning the S engine. Any thoughts about this? How is this accomplished? The timing chain has NOT yet been changed out could the Bolts be done then?
The flywheel was already changed out by the dealer...don't know what they replaced it with. Will be getting that info.

Thanks!

 

IE camber plates not available? https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ireland-...fixedcmbr~ire/

no R60 . https://www.iemotorsport.com/product...sion-steering/

 

Sorry abut that; I made the camber plate recommendation thinking the R60 might take the same parts as the R56. Maybe do a bit more research and see if those parts are interchangeable. Way Motors might be able to help you there. Here is another option, but much more $$$:
https://www.waymotorworks.com/vorshl...s-r60-r61.html

As for engine upgrades for a tune... Nope, not for the stage 1 Manic tune. It brings the HP up to about the same as the JCW. There is a really good NAM thread for the N18 engine with Manic tunes. Way Motors does them. And I have 2 friends with them. Just need a cooler set of plugs. The intercooler, you can do without any tune. It helps no matter what.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ally-here.html

 

RealOEM.com shows the upper bearing support for the front strut for the R60 to be the same part as that for the R56
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_0777

If you click on the blue part number for the #1 part it will show you where that part is used and it shows it to be used on the R56, so the IE fixed camber plate should work for your car.
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=31306772749

Not sure why no one else shows this being interchangeable. Maybe someone will chime in about it...

 

Great thanks!
I beefed up the camber plates in the ZHP so I get the concept.
I The Intercooler looks to be a pretty easy upgrade...am I correct? https://www.waymotorworks.com/helix-...tercooler.html
So the bolts don't have to be changed out until the Turbo is upgraded (has original turbo) 63k miles. I have not yet found a chart that explains wear life of these parts. BMW seems to be a little more on charting the life expectancy of parts.
How long to shocks typically last?

 

Found this video. . it looks like he might be working on an R56. Is this the same for the R60? What about changing out these pipes like in the video?
Thank you!

 

Is there a less costly way to do this?
https://new.minimania.com/part/G2NMK...t-Gen2-R55-r61

 

The only thing I would do would to be to put in the helix IC and change out the boost side “muffler” with this:
https://www.waymotorworks.com/wmw-re...7-r58-r59.html

There is no benefit to changing out the hoses and some of those aftermarket hose are soft and expand with boost pressure which hurts performance. The N18 system is really pretty good as-is except for the IC.

MINI shocks are crap... Personally, I find the Koni FSDs to be a bit soft on the R50 and R56; not sure how they will be on the R60. But, almost anything will be better than the stock shocks.

Turbo wearing out??? Not sure I have ever heard of anyone doing any preemptive change-out of the turbo or doing any bolt change-outs. Actually, no real point in upgrading the turbo unless you are going for 250-300 WHp. I have a bunch of track days on my 2012 S and haven’t even thought out that. There is an auxilary water pump that cools the turbo bearings that can quit and if that isn’t fixed I would think that would shorten the turbo’s life. You’ll that the aux pump is gone if the radiator fan runs a lot after the engine is turned off. The big thing is to change the oil every 5k miles. I use Motul 5-40 for the track. Much better than Castrol or Mobil 1 and the like. 5-30 should be good for the street. Oil is a big deal on making these last. Oh, the N18 doesn’t have the timing chain issue the N14 engine had, so at 60+k miles it is not surprising that the original chain is in it.

Get a ScanGage II. This plugs into the OBDII port and will give you water temp, oil temp, intake temp, volts, boost, etc. I find it to be really helpful.

 

. Oh, interesting. Got it!

.
I installed the Koni Special Actives (Red FSDs) on the e46 with Eibach Pro springs. Very nice ride, super quick around the canyon turns. Just feels faster. Was thinking the Special Active would do well on the R60 with the bigger AT tires. Other shock suggestions are welcome.

Regarding the Turbo...obviously been reading too many forums and could be way off base The bolt thing...I saw on a forum that Mr. Grumpy was on talking about this. I'll look for the link.
The car has had regular maintenance, oil changes, Flywheel and Headgasket. Nothing else like timing chain, thermostat etc. https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistor...ZC5C58DWM15540 . I know in a BMW by 60k miles your into Inspection1/2 stuff.

OK. Have you seen these? http://www.p3cars.com/mini/ is this just a fancier more expensive version of the ScanGageII?

Car has no Nav screen. It has the big speedo.