Does anyone have experience with both? how does it compare?

TIA, TC

 

send me a PM I have experience with both

Mario

mQubed Motorsport Manic & RPM Power Tuning

 

A couple basic questions about what can be controlled by a piggy-back tuner box versus the ECU tune.

Do the piggy-back tuner boxes do much other than tricking it into more boost and then keeping it safe by the number (and function) of other sensors plugged into it?

Can the tuner boxes richen up the fuel mixture?

I'm no engineer, but if the ECU tune can change the fuel mixture, timing and boost based on actual throttle position, I'd think it would be able to be programmed to run smoother throughout the power band.

I had a Manic Stage 2 tune on a 2008 Mini Cooper S. It was shocking how much faster it was and it ran flawless at all the RPM's. I now have a 2019 JCW 3dr hardtop and reluctant to do anything just yet. But I still think the ability to control more parameters, if that's actually the case, is better.

 

I have an R58 JCW Coupe not a G3 car, but my Manic ECU tune has been excellent. I've had it about 2 years, I think it was about $500 in Tempe, AZ. I've never heard any complaints about it on NAM. Several people said they got error codes with the Dinan Elite. I guess people favor it because you can uninstall it, or you can buy it from a dealer under warranty. But I don't think the Mini dealer provides the warranty, you have to deal with Denon about that. I think the ECU tune affects more engine components that just the boost. FWIW.

 

I have the Dinan Elite on my JCW right now, but had Jan from RMW flash tune my old R53. I also have a good friend with a '19 JCW who tried to get a flash tune for his ECU but ran into big-time issues.

My $0.02: if you live near the tuner of choice and can get a flash tune done with pulls on a dyno or live close enough to get quick support, go for it. If you have multiple cars and can afford downtime if the tune goes wrong, go for it. If not, you might consider a piggyback unit. If the piggyback gives you issues you can either remove it (or use the bypass plug like the Elite has) pretty easily.

To give a bit of background on the third case above: my friend has a '19 F56 fJCW that was running like a beast. He pulled his ECU & sent it to a tuner who had a really good rep for successful results with his flash tunes on various MINI gens. He got the ECU back & it was a mess: stumbling, hard starts, the engine would stick revving at the redline. He pulled the ECU, sent it back for retune, got a fresh tune. In addition to the prior issues he now had raw gas dumping out the exhaust, among other things. He sent the ECU back a second time to be flashed back to stock & now runs the Elite too.

So, while I can't comment on Manic tunes specifically, I hope this provides some other things to keep in mind when doing an ECU flash tune from even the most reputable of resources.

 

Yeah I'd not want to send mine off for an ECU flash tune, I'd rather drive it right afterward. The guy who did mine said that most of the 2+ hrs it took was to update the car's firmware, the tune only took about 1/2 hour. And it changed my exhaust sound when I let off the gas at higher RPMs it pops now. He didn't tell me it would do that.

 

I talked to my MINI SA about it and she took the question to the District Service Manager. He said there is no MINI warranty coverage on the Dinan Elite or any damage that may be considered to be related to it. Installing it would be at my own risk. There is also nothing on Dinan’s web page about getting any MINI related warranty work paid for. That said, there are some MINI Dealers who are also Dinan distributors and they do warrant it (that is according to one NAM member who has already had work done with respect to the Elite). I don’t know anything about those dealers, nor how an engine and/or drive train issue would be addressed under the MINI warranty should something fail.

This all reminds me of a local Chevy (Corvette) Dealer who partnered with a local speed shop to build and sell upgraded C5 Corvettes. I believe that it was the dealer who covered the warranty, not Chevy.

For now, with less than 300 miles on the car, I’ll forgo any tune on the car just so there is no question about who is responsible for any issues.

 

Dinan Warranty - https://www.dinancars.com/warranty/

 

Thanks Friday, I appreciate feedback like your full comment. Gives me different issues and angles to think about. I had zero problems with my manic Stage 2 on my 2008 Mini Cooper S. But I'm getting very leery that the tuners are properly able to unlock the ECU on the current generations.

 

Ya, saw that, but the Elite web page says something different:
https://www.dinancars.com/product/d4...s=&mid=Cooper/

If you go down the page a bit to where it says “The Dinan Difference” they say:
”It does this without negatively affecting your new car warranty coverage and without affecting long term reliability or the functionality of on-board diagnostic systems. It is also the only tuning device designed to be emissions legal in all 50 states.”

So, not sure what they mean by that...

 

Ask them in writing to clarify what they mean if you are interested in buying it.

 

Their post concerning the general impact of their tune modules is pretty clear. Basically, use it at your own risk. Pretty much the same as any aftermarket tune. The page that I linked to is as clear as mud. I wish they would be be more clear about the Elite. My guess is that it is ambiguous because they have some MINI dealers who are also Dinan dealers and most MINI dealers are not Dinan dealers. Keeping their wording ambiguous allows the non-Dinan MINI dealers to reject any MINI related warranty claims that involve the Elite. Even with something in writing from Dinan (if it says MINI will cover warranty items), MINI can still reject it and the only “push” you have is court. My guess would be that anyone would be hard pressed to win that one without MINI having signed it also. I think the thing to do is to have a MINI dealer who is also a Dinan dealer install it and get from them what that installation means with respect to the MINI warranty. Heck, that is only a 3 - 4 hr drive from me...

 

The warranty seems pretty clear to me. Obviously you could get into a situation where both MINI and Dinan disclaim responsibility for an issue and you wind up having to sue for relief (not easy from a distant state). I chose to self install and enjoy the tune. Out of warranty now and makes my car much better. YMMV. Your JCW probably is perkier than my S.

 

The JCW just pulls strong from whatever RPM I hit the gas at. However, how the power comes on is more subtle than how power comes on in my 2012 S. For now, I am enjoying the JCW as it is. Maybe in the future I’ll do a tune of some sort. But I would like to learn the shortcomings of the car before I do that so I don’t get caught with any shortcomings being aggravated by a bunch of added power.

Enjoy!

 

I drove my '19 fJCW for six months or so totally stock, and was pretty impressed with the out-of-the-box performance. I then installed the mods in my sig. I did find one shortcoming last week during MOTD: the added power of the Dinan Elite can somewhat overpower the JCW brakes. Stock, the JCW big brakes stop the car incredibly well, and the power to brake ratio was perfect. But with added power & speed, under heavy use, the stock brakes did fade some. It's worth noting we were doing some very hard runs with heavy braking, from 80 or 85 mph downhill into short braking zones for corners rated 25 or 35 mph. After multiple power dives into the braking zones the brake pedal got soft on me, but after letting the brakes cool, the car was fine. FWIW a friend of mine with the nearly the same build had no problems. The difference: he had braided SS brake lines, different brake pads, and drilled + slotted rotors.

That's the only shortcoming I've found (maybe decreased MPG as well ), but one that is A) worth it for the added fun & power and B) easily corrected.

HTH

 

I had the Dinan on my 17 JCW, (not the elite, the other one), and then decided to get a bit more oomph, and went with a flash tune from Evolve. It's all done through the OBDII port, and I can swap back and forth between the stock flash and the tune. It's gotten to 256 hp and 296 tq at the wheels, using the best dyno you can get, a brand new Dynojet rolling road.


I was not interested in removing my ECU and sending it off for a tune, and the potential problems that could arise if there were any issues with it. With my flash, I can always swap back to stock if there is a problem, while the tuner fixes the issue. This hasn't happened, but it's nice to know I have that option.

 

I looked at Manic a while ago and there is literally one dealer in NC that has the bench equipment to flash the tune in. The older gen Manic tunes can be OBD, but not the Gen 3.

Like it was mentioned on here, that means at least a 2 days without a running car and then 2 more if there is an update or tweak needed

A company like ByteTronik is just as powerful as the Manic tune, its OBD based and tweaks are literally a 2 min flash, if that.

 

The guy who did my ManicMini tune in Tempe, AZ said he used to offer a switch or something so you could turn it off. But it added $50-100 to the price and he said nobody ever used it so he quit offering it.