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How did this become a standard by which all cars are judged? If you want to go fast around the “Ring” just get a Toyota prototype hybrid or the like. Learn how to drive it and be the fastest around the Ring. Other than that, you are going to be slow... And yet, even Toyota has given up on that mark for their Supra. No 600 or 700 Hp, no “fastest number” around the Ring. Just a car that is getting rave reviews for its real world performance. So what the GP is not as fast as the Renault or some other car. Also, unless you or I are a Pro MINI driver with a 1000 laps around the Ring under our respective belts, we won’t get any where close to what Renault or MINI comes up with for a time. So other than bragging rights (Mine is bigger than yours sort of thing), it really doesn’t matter.
That is not what this car is about. The GP 3 is about (1) being unique and (2) being the best of its generation of MINI Coopers. That is it...
What I would really be interested in seeing is a comparison of MINI Cooper lap time data for each of the GPs (Gen I, II and III) and show on the track as to where and how each one is better than the other. I would also like to see details of how each one is setup (tires, wheel sizes, spring rates, sway bars, etc). But, given that MINI/BMW hides everything and anything technical about the car, like the world’s worst tach so you can’t see what the engine is doing and no info on fluid volumes (what, I can’t change my own oil now because they won’t tell me how much oil to put in), to force everyone into the dealership, I doubt they would give up anything so technical as spring rates and the like.
How did this become a standard by which all cars are judged? If you want to go fast around the “Ring” just get a Toyota prototype hybrid or the like. Learn how to drive it and be the fastest around the Ring. Other than that, you are going to be slow... And yet, even Toyota has given up on that mark for their Supra. No 600 or 700 Hp, no “fastest number” around the Ring. Just a car that is getting rave reviews for its real world performance. So what the GP is not as fast as the Renault or some other car. Also, unless you or I are a Pro MINI driver with a 1000 laps around the Ring under our respective belts, we won’t get any where close to what Renault or MINI comes up with for a time. So other than bragging rights (Mine is bigger than yours sort of thing), it really doesn’t matter.
That is not what this car is about. The GP 3 is about (1) being unique and (2) being the best of its generation of MINI Coopers. That is it...
What I would really be interested in seeing is a comparison of MINI Cooper lap time data for each of the GPs (Gen I, II and III) and show on the track as to where and how each one is better than the other. I would also like to see details of how each one is setup (tires, wheel sizes, spring rates, sway bars, etc). But, given that MINI/BMW hides everything and anything technical about the car, like the world’s worst tach so you can’t see what the engine is doing and no info on fluid volumes (what, I can’t change my own oil now because they won’t tell me how much oil to put in), to force everyone into the dealership, I doubt they would give up anything so technical as spring rates and the like.
Very well said.
Agreed on all counts.
I'd especially love to see the Gen I, II and III comparison,
that'd be quite interesting.
It's somewhat difficult to find good videos,
but here are a couple of heavily modified cars:
There was one R53 video that I saw a while back that featured a pair of MINIs running together around the Ring. Great video, but I can’t find it again. While the R53 video above is a good run, I don’t hear the supercharger whine. In that video I had found, that whine was very prominent. I wonder if this one was a turbo conversion?
Last edited by Eddie07S; Jun 23, 2019 at 11:02 AM.
Reason: Fix typo
How did this become a standard by which all cars are judged? If you want to go fast around the “Ring” just get a Toyota prototype hybrid or the like. Learn how to drive it and be the fastest around the Ring. Other than that, you are going to be slow... And yet, even Toyota has given up on that mark for their Supra. No 600 or 700 Hp, no “fastest number” around the Ring. Just a car that is getting rave reviews for its real world performance. So what the GP is not as fast as the Renault or some other car. Also, unless you or I are a Pro MINI driver with a 1000 laps around the Ring under our respective belts, we won’t get any where close to what Renault or MINI comes up with for a time. So other than bragging rights (Mine is bigger than yours sort of thing), it really doesn’t matter.
That is not what this car is about. The GP 3 is about (1) being unique and (2) being the best of its generation of MINI Coopers. That is it...
What I would really be interested in seeing is a comparison of MINI Cooper lap time data for each of the GPs (Gen I, II and III) and show on the track as to where and how each one is better than the other. I would also like to see details of how each one is setup (tires, wheel sizes, spring rates, sway bars, etc). But, given that MINI/BMW hides everything and anything technical about the car, like the world’s worst tach so you can’t see what the engine is doing and no info on fluid volumes (what, I can’t change my own oil now because they won’t tell me how much oil to put in), to force everyone into the dealership, I doubt they would give up anything so technical as spring rates and the like.
The problem is, they're advertising it as a nurburgring crushing car, so when you advertise it and hype it up as something that's meant to crush the nurburgring and then have a significantly slower time than any of the competitors such as the Renault, then that's an issue. I think nurburgring times are pointless, but it's a bad look when a company hypes up the possibility of a very fast time with all the promotional stuff at the nurburgring and whatnot. I know the mini has never been a numbers car, but they pushed it to be one through their advertising.
The problem is, they're advertising it as a nurburgring crushing car, so when you advertise it and hype it up as something that's meant to crush the nurburgring and then have a significantly slower time than any of the competitors such as the Renault, then that's an issue. I think nurburgring times are pointless, but it's a bad look when a company hypes up the possibility of a very fast time with all the promotional stuff at the nurburgring and whatnot. I know the mini has never been a numbers car, but they pushed it to be one through their advertising.
I understand what you mean, and I was also disappointed, but only of the wheel format/design . MINI offers the 1st time real Grand Prix feelings and shows what the F56 can do. This time for a factory-setup-daily with a conventional tire, full house including AC & Automatic is not bad. !
Charlie Cooper (John Cooper's grandson) posted a comment on tge_ldnm's Instagram post about the nurburgring event saying that "next time we're beating the ring time in it". I wouldn't discount them going for the FWD record just yet.
The problem is, they're advertising it as a nurburgring crushing car, so when you advertise it and hype it up as something that's meant to crush the nurburgring and then have a significantly slower time than any of the competitors such as the Renault, then that's an issue. I think nurburgring times are pointless, but it's a bad look when a company hypes up the possibility of a very fast time with all the promotional stuff at the nurburgring and whatnot. I know the mini has never been a numbers car, but they pushed it to be one through their advertising.
Mini never advertised it or implied it would be the fastest car around the ring. They stated it would be the fastest mini ever. Which is true but it wasnt exactly that fast of a time to beat.
6th fastest FWD car around the ring is still an impressive time. Only 2 of the 6 on the list can even be purchased in the US.
Last edited by charrigan; Jun 25, 2019 at 07:35 AM.
Charlie Cooper (John Cooper's grandson) posted a comment on tge_ldnm's Instagram post about the nurburgring event saying that "next time we're beating the ring time in it". I wouldn't discount them going for the FWD record just yet.
I don't see how how they will be able to shave 16 seconds off the current time and as of 4 days ago he has not driven it.
One thing to note is that he did verbally (on IG) confirm the GP3 is in fact a 2 seater.
The problem is, they're advertising it as a nurburgring crushing car, so when you advertise it and hype it up as something that's meant to crush the nurburgring and then have a significantly slower time than any of the competitors such as the Renault, then that's an issue. I think nurburgring times are pointless, but it's a bad look when a company hypes up the possibility of a very fast time with all the promotional stuff at the nurburgring and whatnot. I know the mini has never been a numbers car, but they pushed it to be one through their advertising.
Originally Posted by charrigan
Mini never advertised it or implied it would be the fastest car around the ring. They stated it would be the fastest mini ever. Which is true but it wasnt exactly that fast of a time to beat.
Originally Posted by charrigan
6th fastest FWD car around the ring is still an impressive time. Only 2 of the 6 on the list can even be purchased in the US.
I think the fastest time around the ring for any car class is such a “moving” target that it hardly makes any sense for anyone to to chase it. I have seen cases where some Hyper car was fastest “this week” and “next week” some other beats that time. Even the people writing the article thought that it was laughable. This is why I think this is pointless and I really hope that MINI didn’t put out the idea that they would be the absolute fastest. That title would be gone by the time they get the car back to the shop. I really hope they did what charrigan has posted. That is, MINI has challenged their own past MINI time.
It makes much more sense that MINI is chasing a MINI’s time. That past MINI time is fixed and can’t change, and to beat that time has some meaning to it.
Originally Posted by Clutch Wotan
I understand what you mean, and I was also disappointed, but only of the wheel format/design . MINI offers the 1st time real Grand Prix feelings and shows what the F56 can do. This time for a factory-setup-daily with a conventional tire, full house including AC & Automatic is not bad. !
One thing to note is that he did verbally (on IG) confirm the GP3 is in fact a 2 seater.
Wow, if it wasn’t a 2 seater, that would “kill” it for being usable in a lot of car club track days (they call them “Driver Education” events) as they require “equal” seating for an instructor...
Last edited by Eddie07S; Jun 25, 2019 at 08:20 AM.
Reason: Edit
Charlie Cooper (John Cooper's grandson) posted a comment on tge_ldnm's Instagram post about the nurburgring event saying that "next time we're beating the ring time in it". I wouldn't discount them going for the FWD record just yet.
Iam sure he is referring to something like Clubman Vision as GP most likely as hybrid with over 400 hp, the time what that is capable, shows the Subaru with under 7 Min
Iam sure he is referring to something like Clubman Vision as GP most likely as hybrid with over 400 hp, the time what that is capable, shows the Subaru with under 7 Min
you do realize all JCW product development moved to 100% in house at BMW in January of 2007 right? The Cooper family has zero involvement with product development anymore. Charlie Cooper is simply a brand ambassador and nothing more. He has yet to even drive the GP3.
Granted. I would speculate that MINI (BMW central) has gotten a lot of technical feedback from their sponsored series like IMSA, Mini challenge, and others. Remember the CPU problems during the IMSA races? They even had a factory rep photographing my car (without permission) at a parking lot during the last MTTS. He shot all four sides of my car. I told him where to send my fee and he just scowled and walked away. No sense of humor. His name tag said he was from MINI (BMW). German engineering and design?
If they promoted racing in the US by anywhere near the extent as they do in the UK there would no issues with sales here. If they promoted racing here at all it would boost sales. If the sales people knew something of what these cars are capable of would be helpful too. But clearly, in the design of this car, being a performance car was an afterthought. Just look at the useless tach they stuck in it and an arm rest that prevents sifting. The fact that you can no longer buy the sports suspension in a Base Cooper. I have been told the S is a wallowing mess handling wise (by people who autocross). This is clearly a car that is intended to be marketed to the Toyota Camery daily commuting crowd for putzing around in with an automatic, The JCW is a afterthought in BMW’s mind. I expect the GP to hit the States with the same flaws, but that will be overshadowed by the Hp to street race the STi’s with. These flaws won’t be helped by a quick time around the Ring; just add frustration to what could be a great and unique car.
Talking to a factory rep a few years ago, MINI now admits it missed the mark with marketing in the US. They aimed for college grads and the young urban professionals. Gas prices dropped, college grads were in debt, green, and the sales died. Now I get a letter monthly to "trade up" for more money, less standard equipped features, less options, and less resale value. Wrong.
If you want to autocross, get a Subaru, not a front wheel drive car. Or a rear engine/drive (with which I got a 1st place trophy for many, many moons ago).
MINI used to be a sleeper, but not anymore. It's a wannabee with the competition of Asian manufacturers.
The GP's are for Europe, collectors, and US posers (where in the US are you going to track it?)
If you want a daily drive that is fun to drive, maneuver in traffic, load up with aftermarket modifications, and easy to park, stay with a MINI. And get a smile every time you drive it.
You can "track" them but competitively? I would be interested to know if a GP ever ran in a recent event in the US. Or ever. SCCA had a MINI guy who won their class in a R56 a few years ago. Now, MINI barely qualifies. Here Subaru's are dominant in autocross. Pro? IMSA killed that-two doors. 400 HP mini SUV's? The future. And it sucks.
Imo they don’t need to beat the time of the Type R and Megane but they need to get a little closer given the price they will charge for this car. Closer to 10 seconds off would be a good time to me.
Also I wouldn’t take much notice of the time printed into the dash. Someone took a closer pic of it at the Nurburgring event and the time is 7:56:69 (unless they have redefined the number of seconds in a minute then this is impossible) so I tend to think that is just showing the intended dash design.
You can "track" them but competitively? I would be interested to know if a GP ever ran in a recent event in the US. Or ever. SCCA had a MINI guy who won their class in a R56 a few years ago. Now, MINI barely qualifies. Here Subaru's are dominant in autocross.
and the following few posts, that people are still interested in racing MINIs (these posts aimed at autocross around here). I have posted in this and been corrected in my discussion. To me it seems that MINI has been classed by SCCA in a way that it is now out-gunned by the cars it is classed with. But others (who do this regularly) believe otherwise and that the MINI can be competitive. So, I can’t say for sure. But just looking at the SCCA rules, the GPs have be classed separate from the rest of the MINI cars. Not sure how the GP3 would fair under these rules. But, clearly the GP 3 would be classed in a way that they would be “fighting above their weight”.
Originally Posted by SFMCS
Pro? IMSA killed that-two doors. 400 HP mini SUV's? The future. And it sucks.
I was very sad to see IMSA do that. I got to see the MINIs race at Lime Rock. A great race. And had great fun following them over the years in the streaming broadcasts.
Having had a Jeep Cherokee, Grand Cherokee and a 9 passenger Chevy wagon, I am done with SUVs. I have 3 MINIs (one of each Gen) and love them all. I have no interest in a “400 Hp MINI SUV”. A sad direction things seem to be going...
While I may sound harsh about the Gen 3 MINIs and the GP3, I really like my JCW and I really do want to see MINI do well with the GP3. I think it is great that people will have access to what is sure to be a great and unique car...
Also I wouldn’t take much notice of the time printed into the dash. Someone took a closer pic of it at the Nurburgring event and the time is 7:56:69 (unless they have redefined the number of seconds in a minute then this is impossible) so I tend to think that is just showing the intended dash design.
I read it as 7 minutes, 56.69 seconds. What needs to be redefined?
I read it as 7 minutes, 56.69 seconds. What needs to be redefined?
