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JCW a collectors car in the future?

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Old 05-25-2013, 10:49 AM
works911 works911 is offline
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JCW a collectors car in the future?

I got 2006 JCW and my plan have to been to keep it forever so I'm wondering do you guys think its value will go up one day? Any expert in the house?
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:18 AM
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I think the R53 JCW will. Somewhat like the Porsche 356 did. The new body style with the hideous front end won't. Kind o like what happened in 1966 when Porsche introduced the 911. The 356 was a much more solid car and more fun to drive. The engine on the R53 is superior in my opinion than the French version of the newer JCW's. limited supply of the R53 JCW's will help resale. It will take quite a few years to evolve but I think it will happen.
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:30 AM
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05 & 06 R53, in my opinion are the best Mini's they made.
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:06 AM
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+1
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:30 PM
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The question is how much? A car is never an investment. Even if you wrap it in a plastic bubble, storing it for 40 years and keeping it mint will cost a lot more in rent, maintenance and inflation than the value will ever increase by.
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:19 PM
works911 works911 is offline
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Well just like how a clean e30 m3 or just the regular 3series' value are going up. That kind of appreciation. In 20 years from now it will be a cute good looking retro car with a exciting driving feel to it like a porsche 993 in 2013.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:07 AM
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But how many of those cars, inflation adjusted, are worth more than the combined sum of the purchase price, repair fees and 'rent' of the space they were in? You have to choose something very exclusive like a bugatti or a McLaren to make anywhere even close to the gains you would make on say wine, property, shares, 401k etc etc.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:36 AM
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There are certain cars that have not only kept pace with inflation, expenses and up-keep but far have exceeded same. Yes, certain 356 Porsches have gone viral but not all. Have any of you looked lately at the going prices for solid, early 911 or even 993 Porsches? Agreed, a top condition e30 M3 is already over twice what it sold for new. The lower the mileage, the better the condition, the higher the prices. And what about early HiPo Mustangs or Shelby GT350's? The key is a)classic design and b)limited production. More important though, buy not as an investment but what you truly love.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:13 AM
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I'm just saying, a car is a terrible investment. I bet you could have bought almost anything such as art, watches, land, stocks and made several times more money since the 356 came out in 1948 and seen orders of magnitude more growth in the value. A rare car may go up in value, maybe 20% if you never drive it, but over 20 years that's appalling growth and is not the reason to retain the car.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:53 AM
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Exactly I want to keep it mainly because I'm in love with the car. It motivates me to keep up with all maintenance knowing that one day one in good condition could see its value go up. Jay Leno predicted 1st gen prius and even Hummers to be collectibles someday.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:14 AM
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Keep up the maintenance because that will preserve the vehicle and is common sense, drive it and enjoy it because that's what it is good at; but look elsewhere for investments. $100 a month into a pension, wine, art, mutual funds ETF etc is a much better way to ensure financial returns.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:37 AM
Naylia Naylia is offline
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Wouldn't the GPs be the true collector's item?
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:50 PM
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JOYLOVE, nothing personal but I just want you to understand that you can be wrong. It all depends on what you buy. We purchased two vehicles about 20 years ago. Each of them have increased in value approximately 400% over their purchase price. NAYLIA, the GP's do have the potential with only 2000 of the 1st Series being produced and only 415 Stateside. However, numbers have something but not everything to do with collectibility...They must have desireability. Consider Indy Pace Cars. Very few of any make, except the 1964 Mustangs, have increased in value. The real problem with investing in anything these days is the unknown. What will be the ROI? Who knows??? That's why it's improtant to put your money into something you know about and care about.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC TRACKRAT View Post
JOYLOVE, nothing personal but I just want you to understand that you can be wrong. It all depends on what you buy. We purchased two vehicles about 20 years ago. Each of them have increased in value approximately 400% over their purchase price.
For sure things can go up in value, but I assume what you bought were classic cars, that already had begun the transition into "cool". A 2005ish Mini now has the awkward period that the 80's and 90's cars (a good example is still the Mustang) are going through, where they are out of fashion.

Cars can also go down in value. If you had chosen E Type Jaguars 20 years ago when the classic car market was booming, you'd be looking at a significant loss.

Of your 400% have you ever added up the yearly bills and the "rent" they cost you in square footage?
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:51 PM
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I most certainly agree. Choosing the right car is critical. Look at the old Ford Model T's and A's.. Those owners are aging out and the values are way down. Just because a car is old and rare doesn't mean it's valuable. "Of your 400% have you ever added up the yearly bills and the "rent" they cost you in square footage?"
Yeah, I'm way ahead. I do all my own maintenance, a huge basement garage, have reduced rate collector car insurance and my state has a very favorable tax rate for collector cars 35 yrs. and older. Life is good!
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:16 PM
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But with cars often the value and desirability is dependent on folk lore. The BMW E30 M3 is legendary yet I'll bet it's thoroughly outperformed by a Toyobaru BRZ. Or the old muscle cars, generally speaking they were all dreadful, fairly ugly/unstyled, built down to a price on a Union run line from a parts-bin platform, yet people will pay a fortune for a 'numbers matching' somethingsomething yet they would probably be outrun by a midrange modern German saloon car. These cars are worth money due to things that made them unique and masculine. A high cost of ownership (vintage Bugatti), bad manners on the road (911 turbo), defining a market segment (E30 M3) or being a poster car for youngsters (muscle cars) often help the used value.

Sadly the JCW and GP are just a bit too derivative and dare I say it, feminine, to hit the 'halo' car territory that sees people paying many times more than the purchase price for an old one.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joylove View Post
For sure things can go up in value, but I assume what you bought were classic cars, that already had begun the transition into "cool". A 2005ish Mini now has the awkward period that the 80's and 90's cars (a good example is still the Mustang) are going through, where they are out of fashion.

Cars can also go down in value. If you had chosen E Type Jaguars 20 years ago when the classic car market was booming, you'd be looking at a significant loss.

Of your 400% have you ever added up the yearly bills and the "rent" they cost you in square footage?
+1000

Besides, 400% in 20 years? That's about 10.5% annualized, assuming ZERO "maintenance" cost as joylove mentions. You really want to play those numbers with... a car? A Mini? Hmm. I wish I had that kind of money to play around with.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:24 PM
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Frozone, you are quite correct. Back 20 years ago, the DJIA was around 3,000. Hindsight being clearer than foresight, much better for most folks to have gone that route. Given the current world economic climate, what do you think the DJIA will be in another 20 years? But, I adhere to a few well-worn phrases: "Always buy quality and diversify", "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" and my favorite: "You've lived your life well if you run out of breath and money at the same time!" Enjoy the ride!
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:30 PM
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I agree with both of the above, but then there's no point dying on a diamond bed with a solid gold catheter! You need to enjoy your cars, especially before you're too old to do it, just don't kid yourself that you're investing and be happy with that decision!
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:35 PM
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Hate to be a party pooper but.....

GP's, a solid maybe. If it's possible for a "maybe" to be solid.

JCW's, absolutely not (I have a JCW. Should have bought the GP).

If you buy a used R53 JCW, it's not much more than a used stock R53. And you can get so much more power out of the R53 for far cheaper than the JCW, that most of us with JCW's don't keep them stock to begin with. It was the biggest waste of money for a bang for the buck that I did on my car. It did keep the warranty for a few years though, so there's that. There are tuned stock R53's, no mods, making more power than untuned JCW's. The JCW brakes, not bad, but nothing special. The JCW suspension, that was actually pretty good. In the end, IMHO, the badge isn't worth the price.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:12 PM
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^^what he said

The GP is the only MINI that has all the makings of a car that will be part of collections down the road.

The only other MINI that could be worth something is the WC50....however theres really nothing special about them to make them desireable except for extremely low production, so its not likely.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:53 AM
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To the OP: Not if you drive it. And not likely otherwise. NPV would definitely be negative.

To NC Trackrat: Ok, I've got to know. Which cars?!
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cct1 View Post
Hate to be a party pooper but.....

GP's, a solid maybe. If it's possible for a "maybe" to be solid.

JCW's, absolutely not (I have a JCW. Should have bought the GP).

If you buy a used R53 JCW, it's not much more than a used stock R53. And you can get so much more power out of the R53 for far cheaper than the JCW, that most of us with JCW's don't keep them stock to begin with. It was the biggest waste of money for a bang for the buck that I did on my car. It did keep the warranty for a few years though, so there's that. There are tuned stock R53's, no mods, making more power than untuned JCW's. The JCW brakes, not bad, but nothing special. The JCW suspension, that was actually pretty good. In the end, IMHO, the badge isn't worth the price.
I have to debate a few points here - you say yourself that a used R53 JCW is not much more than a used stock R53, that means that it might not have been worth it brand new, but the JCW is a great deal used.

Also, as for collectibility, IF the GP becomes a real collector car and sees prices steadily increase, I say you'll see clean JCWs follow suit. Pure hypothetical here but say the first GP becomes a collectors car fetching 500k in year 2050 (which won't be nearly as much then as it sounds now), people will see that an 05-06 JCW is the next closest thing and you could see them climb from maybe 5k to 10k, to 50k, to 150 and so on as the GP rises. There are countless examples of this happening with collectors cars that nobody really wanted 10-20 yrs ago, but the rarer big brother starts going for millions and it drags up the "less desireables." Of course this does not mean it should be considered an "investment" - no one knows what will become popular and that it will even keep up with inflation.

The other thing about the value and worth of the JCW, I agree that you can mod a plain MCS to perform the same and do it more affordably, but I never see a return on investment when people mod: increasing wear and tear and decreasing reliability of the car. Show me someone that pays anything close to the cost of suspension, engine and exhaust work, etc. that someone else added... you have to hope it was "tastefully" modded to not LOSE value compared to bone stock.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:12 PM
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For a car to gain enough value to be purchased as an investment, It needs to be rare, desirable, and have participated in, if not won, significant races. The JCWs from 05, 06 are great cars, I love them, but they don't have enough of those qualities to be true collector cars. The GPs have a little more rarity and desirability, but they don't have a grand racing pedigree.

But really, who cares? If the car speaks to you, by all means, care for it like a collector car. Even if it doesn't appreciate, you can appreciate it, and that's what counts. There's a certain car that I love and collect (I've got 2) that'll probably never pay for themselves, because it never had success in racing.

Last edited by Helix13mini; 07-17-2013 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:25 PM
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Does anyone other then me feel a lot of hot breeze out there
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