Who else has lost an R56 Motor. My 2011 in the shop and MINI is refusing to
fix the car. 3 months old and motor is toast. They are blaming my tune that was not on the car for 6 weeks before it lost the motor. I have found 6 other with the same issues. I have found others where MINI pulled the same BS.
One had CAI so they voided the warranty. Another had an exhaust. This practice my MINI is highly illegal because they have to prove the parts used caused the failure. They are using it as a blanket policy to avoid paying for repairs that seem to be pretty common. Lots of stock cars with the exact same issues but if you added anything to your car it give them a reason to walk away. This has to end. I am looking for other as this may go class action. Who else has lost an R56 motor?

 

This sucks..... from reading the forums.... I am nervous to order a 2011 JCW...or MCS for that matter. Seems to be a lot of posts of 2011 issues. hmmm.
I guess one avenue is to not do any mods til warranty runs out? Not really an option.

 

Mine.

I know you're frustrated but this situation is not unique to Mini at all. The fact that their motors are junk is one thing, but the whole mods/voiding warranty thing is not unique. It is completely dealer dependent and you got screwed where you took it. You have to have a dealer that is willing to help you and go to bat for you with Mini USA. This case holds true no matter what brand of modified car you own.

Example of another manuf and voiding warranties....Mistubishi went on a rampage voiding warranties a few years ago on Evo's if they read on forums that the car had been on the racetrack.

 

I'm sorry for your frustration and hope you can work this out with MINI/BMW. BMW CCA has ombudsman that can help sometimes, but it is in the legalese that if you modify the car (engine), you void the manufacturer's warranty...so class action would not get you far.

 

If you add after market parts they must prove the part caused the problem. Just because you bought something not BMW/MINI does not give thenm the right to void a warranty. They must prove the part caused the issue. They have plenty of issues with this motor and have gone to a completely new motor except for the 2011 JCW which is using the old motor still. I see the same issues in cars that have not had a tune so it is hard to blame a part manufacture for a reoccuring problem. You would think if they void your warranty they would have to provide it in writting. They refuse because they would then have to prove it court. Instead they are holding the car hostage in another state and refuse to even provide a detailed estimate to repair.
Dirt Bags! This is illegal according to both OR and WA law. Hence I have the AG in both states involved. If the tune was an issue it would have showed its head when it was on the car 6 weeks earlier. The car burned down on the highway after 5 hours of travel. Somethign else failed and they are taking the easy way out and refuse to even look for the real issue.

 

In addition to the thoughts from other early posts, if you want to survey, I don't think your title and opening line will really capture the right broader group--assuming readers see the body nomenclature in the title. Aren't you really looking for other "S" and JCW motor owners from second new Mini generation (thus, the turbo ones) w/ issues like yours, which could be from any of R55, R56 or R57? Motors all fundamentally the same, though you still have the lower compression, higher boost issue to contend with for the JCW set. Would not include 2011 non JCW's (including R60) given motor changes that might add confusion sorting out.

Difficult situation since sounds like the mod question may well be confused with other possible independent failures like if HPFP went out and caused a lean running condition, which I suppose could have cascaded into the issues on the road.

 

Agreed, he needs to put this in the main drivetrain or main R56 forum. Not many people read the JCW section

 

Your actually wrong on the law. If the tune changed the fuel variables, or boost in any way (And it would have to) they are well within their rights to cancel your warranty. Its pretty easy for them to point to changed parameters. You can do some disastrous things to a motor without proper fuel maps, and if it was a lean fuel issue it could easily take 6 weeks to show its head or a longer drive to form a hotspot in the motor which would lead to failure.

People misread the Moss act everyday thinking that it is some magic bullet to get the dealership to fix anything. A proper example would be your rear shock fails and you have a intake on the car. Completely different system. A tune and a blown motor is definitely on the owner of the car. If you wanted to keep your warranty you should have gone JCW. Modifying cars is a risk in or out of warranty.

 

Is there a link to a site or post that shows "good" dealers to buy from ..... work with? Plan on buying a new JCW this summer

 

1. It is a JCW as I recall, but in turn did have tunes for a while. OP says that was briefly only.

2. Remember Mini's have a longstanding high pressure fuel pump problem, which in turn can cause lean running. So, what if Mini claims that issue is fixed, plus they extended the warranty on some years. "Fixed" like they have "fixed" the tensioner issue, or "better"? There are other independent reported cases of piston failure. Random? Tune caused? Manufacturer defect? Not easy to tell with mixed facts.

Agreed with you on risk and responsibility for mods, but then this car manufacturer does seem to have some dubious product out there without clear information and its ownership of responsibility (tensioner and PCV/valve fouling issues being the two most obvious). These are the cars right now at literally the bottom of the reported quality heap, whether you believe the methodology or not (and I don't particularly). Seems harder to me for BMW/Mini to dodge easily responsibility when its own house is in poor order. As an owner, I expect them to step up more in general. Mixed specific case like this may need third party tear down or something to try to figure out.

 

Dealer just told me 2012 models will have same motor. Does anyone have different info?

 

Unfortunately dubious problems even if they are there don't fit to the law. All they have to show is that the modifications had a impact, forget the language but it is something ~1% at fault.

Lets talk about fuel pumps because I like them, so say this was a lean burn motor kill. Higher fuel usage due to modified fuel map is enough if say the fuel pump fails. Boost level's could be used, modification of fuel maps could be used. Unless you could show that the motor had a defect in area of failure your on the hook. Even then they can use additional stress beyond factory tolerance to get you.

Even if the pump itself is not designed properly for stock usage it would be impossible for you to prove that the pump failed completely on its own. An unmodified car, its on the manufacture because they did not build the part to a high enough tolerance. Or it was cheaper to build a slightly buggy part and replace the few that fail over redesigning the unit which is my personal guess.

I wish for the best outcome for the effected member of the forum, but going up against a major company like BMW is a laughable thought even with a broken stock car that they say is your fault. A big company can bring more legal power down on you could ever imagine. (Trust me I know)

 

While it may be a by product of any case that goes to court, I think it is going to be on you to prove that they improperly voided your warranty.

I don't think this is correct. They have made changes to the motor between 2010 and 2011. Significant enough that it has a new number designation. But it is essentially the same motor, not a whole new one.

Unless you have posted something since last night that I missed, my understanding is that you have not yet been provided with information regarding the issue that caused the failure of your motor (the lack of communication from the dealer is one of the big problems you are battling). Since you don't have that information yet, I'm not sure how you can reach the conclusion that whatever happened to your motor is the same issue that you think has been happening to other motors.

I'm not sure how you reach the conclusion that some damage to the motor was not done that didn't finally manifest itself as a failure several weeks later.

 

 

about big co power, if the market decides their products are junk, game over. Admittedly, market doesn't seem to be moving that way for Mini these days. But take the new car buzz out of the CM after the initial honeymoon wears off (and on things like the 5 series and X3 on the BMW side), price of gas moves down some, and maybe not. Best case in point for that: Audi. They tried the blame the customer approach with the 5000 (which I also owned (though a stick) and which no doubt had lots of customer responsibility issues as well as a dubious air control/idle stabilizer valve). No matter what the cause, pushing a kid through a garage door with a supposedly out of control car isn't a very good PR day when 60 Minutes came to town. Whole debacle almost took them out of the US market and took 10 years to recover. Second best: Toyota. Tried the same blame game, until the police officer and family got killed on the LA freeways with a real time cell phone recording that made it a bit more difficult to say it was again the careless driver who couldn't figure out the gas pedal, at the least in the court of public opinion. One faltering HPFP, thrown timing chain, blown piston or what ever at the wrong moment w/ tragic consequences can change the scenarios dramatically. And when dealing with motor meltdowns, those things can happen. As Audi and Toyota both found, the lawyers may help in the court room at times--though I'm not sure I would want to be defending that my motor choice was first from that paragon of quality, Chrysler, then next from Peugoet/Citroen...--but if the PR runs away from them, they made the wrong choice to start.

Also on the lawyer point, likewise BTDT, actually working with companies. If you find the "junkyard dog" type solo lawyer, they can often take some real flesh out of the lawyered up big co. Here it's just a broken motor, but with the right jury and wrong fact pattern and a good sales person (single lawyer), it can get messy the other way. Once the blustering stops, companies (and their insurers) tend to write checks if it feels risky, if it's bad PR, or executives get entangled in it and take a personal interest.

 

Absolutely true, but based on the published surveys of MINI/BMW thats not happening. Also no one bases car reliability data off blown motors in a modified car.


Again its not really a safety defect, plus current manufacturers are much more aggressive with the media now. Look at Toyota's bland defense of its products, they will learn from that. I am waiting of EULA clauses on car purchases at some point. IE independent apparition required or pay for silence. Nobody in PR/Sales will look at the past history of Toyota and Ford (for Tires) and sit still.


Unless there is a independent arbitration clause in the contract. Now having said that yes a good lawyer can go up against a big company and win big, but primarily in death or dismemberment cases. Nobody is going to give a big award to someone who screwed with there car to make it faster and had a problem. If they did somehow through divine providence get a jury that fell for it hook line and sinker it would be overturned due to excessive jury damages on appeal.

 

While all the replies are interesting and probably true, Island Maser just is trying to collect a list of NAM peeps that have lost engines with or without warranty coverage.

The warranty debate is covered in his earlier thread already.

All the debate is not helping get that list.

 

No, not really. If it was a bad oil pump, or imperfections in the block a tune would have nothing to do with it. They still have not told him what failed and the probable cause. An engine can fail for many reasons and even if to you it seems the engine is one thing, it isn't. Many parts can cause it and if they did, the tune has nothing to do with it. Its sort of important to know what happened before one decides what caused it.

 

If it was unrelated the dealership would have stood up and said so. Not because they are nice guys. But because they could bill MINI for a warranty repair.

But that IMO.

 

Also we are forgetting that Mini Corp not the dealer makes the decision to cover a repair under warranty. Many a local VW owner learned not to take their VWs to a certain dealer in my area because 1. They would note in their service history its a modified car and 2. they would out right refuse to perform any repair under warranty. This eventually backfired since all the VW enthusiast owners started buying from the other dealer in town almost exclusively and their policy has slackened a bit.

It could be the dealer is trying to cover its butt. Its their problem if they cover it and Mini declines the claim. This happened a few times at the dealer I worked for. SA stated to the customer that it was covered only to find out Chrysler said no. We then had to pick up the tab...

 

Coming from Subaru, I'm no stranger to warranty issues. I say it fully depends on the dealer that the car is taken to, and fortunately for me I didn't have an engine related problem; and was able to drive into a local dealer that I read up on on a Subaru forum. They examined my issue and went to bat for me immediately calling up the other Subaru dealership that I got my car from and put the squeeze on them.

In the end I was satisfied with the end result and happy that they're still are some dealerships that are willing to do the right thing....

 

I solution from MINI and the dealer to actually repair the car would nice too. After about a month all I have managed to get out of them is it will cost $8630.12 to repair. I asked exactly what doI get for that- details please.
They refuse to provide a detailed estimate because they have not lokked int he motor to see what failed. Am I getting a short block a long block or complete motor swap. No reply. They refude to put in writing why they voided my warranty. Why? they are afraid it will come back to haunt them later in court. They have that part correct. If they claim it was Jan's tune and they are wrong Jan will have a field day with them in court for slander ect. agnaist his business. He is waiting for them to make that claim but they refuse to put anything in writing. I was at the MINI event this weekend at E@RTC and I had pictures of Jack on the windscreen of my MINI along with the E-mail I got from MINI PDX for a plan to repare my car with just a number and no details and explainations. 100% of everyone who looked at laughed and said who in there right mind would except this. Exactly. Collected a few lwayers cards who would love to tackle this one for me too. If it goes legal I am going all the way. Triple damages and I want a jury to hear it and make an example to set the record straight. The laws on warranty responsible and after market parts is very straight forward and clear. Check the SEMA site for more details. MINI USA/BMW thinks is does not apply to them or they have enough lawyers on staff to over power consumers. Lets see how well they do going up agnaist the Attorney Generals of two different states. Not to mention the privacy issues violated along the way that is in clear violation of both MINI USA, BMWW and the dealer. They took my complaint forms and I have not heard a word. That will be a seperate action like icing on the cake.
If they want to play hard ball they are going to get a little dirty. Watch for the high heat on the inside of the plate. I learned this from my old man. He had a Ford Van he bought new that the car wash took the paint off it when it was 6 months old. Took 11 years to go through the courts. He parked it by a busy highway for months. He had it blocked in my junked cars so Fard could not get at the Van. They actually sent someone down and they tried to wreck the Van to get it off the highway. The could only hit the junker he had protecting it. They got got busted trying to leave the area. They had Ford Corp. identification on them at the time. Ford still managed to drag it out and get conmtinuences for years until my dad hired his lawyer and went at the judge himself. He embaressed the judge for allowing this to go on for so long. It got ugly and the local news was all over it. Finally he had no choice but to award triple damages and make an example of Ford. He said last week if he had it to do all over again it was nto worth the stress. I get that but I am younger and stupid I guess and I am not going away. This is wrong and until a jury or judges says other wise it is game time. They will try everything in their power to avoid getting this in front of a jury. Good thing about America is this is our right to have a day in court in front of a jury of my peers. I am sure everyone of them as had good dealer experience that they can relate too.

 

N

 

Please be an angel and click on "Island Maser", and select "Find all posts by Island Maser".

There are an increasing number of threads here that contain fragments of this story - all characterized by extreme ire bordering on histrionics.

Best not to pour gas on a fire.

With respect,

Charlie

 

I have a question. Do YOU think the tune blew it up? Were you pushing it really hard? I've been working with Jeff at Alta and every small step in tuning he would have me make a recording and then he would review it and make adjustments accordingly to keep the engine "safe" Right now my 09 JCW is running 27psi of boost and has NOT blown. "yet" So I have to ask you about the tune you were using.

Next I hired a dealer manager for my shop. He has a lot of experience with law suits of this nature. Usually it's on the dealer to prove you did something wrong. And they usually have to have 10 times the evidence over what you have to win. It's odd they can't tell you exactly what happened. If you REALLY think you are in the right then get a good lawyer. If not after you get the car fixed back the tune off just a bit.



Ray