First of all, I drove my first Mini this afternoon and was ready to write a check half way through the second turn. What a wonderful car!!! I've driven lots of cars and have a lot of track time in a wide variety of cars, and the MCS is possibly the most throttle responsive car I've driven (maybe a close second to the Honda S2000), but the Mini is more fun.

I'm ordering Indi Blue with white stripes and am trying to decide on the JCW kit. I know this horse has been beat, but I wanted to understand the JCW kit a little better. I'm a typical car/horsepower junkie and would either do JCW or upgrade via the aftermarket.

My understanding is that there are flow changes made to the head. I assume a typical port and polish? Further, the supercharger screw to wall tolerances are a little tighter making for a more efficient compressor? Is this correct? Then you get an ECU and an exhaust for the princely sum of $5,800 plus tax in West Palm Beach, FL. Anything else with the JCW kit?

I've read some threads here and you guys (and gals) are very helpful, but my real question is what do you have to do with aftermarket stuff to equal the JCW kit? An exhaust, pulley and ecu shouldn't get you there because you don't have the higher flow head and more efficient S/C right? Unless you run a little more boost than JCW?

More about me: I will track the car some, but it not a LOT. Just a few laps evey now and then. Mostly a fun daily driver. Also, I don't care about the heritage or telling everyone I've got an "official" factory kit. Actually, I asked the salesman if I could remove the stickers. I kinda like the sleeper thing.

The way I figure it, if I can spend $2000 and get the same hp, I've got $4,000 to replace the engine if I blow it up.

So, is there anything to the head flow upgrades and s/c screw upgrades on the JCW kit or is that just window dressing to justify the price?

If it is window dressing, how much hp can I get from intake, exhaust, header, pulley and ecu? Any other worthwhile upgrades? How much? for all this?

I know I am a newbie and this question has probably been asked 7000 times and I appologize, but the responses in the past seem to have been a little more political than technical.

Anybody have demonstrated technical data on the flow rates of the JCW head and the efficiency of the JCW S/C over stock?

If I spent the $6,000 on aftermarket stuff, how much HP could I get?

Thank you very much. I've never been this excited about a car. I was smiling all afternoon. Take care.

-dc

 

From the car and driver review of the JCW kit in an MCS
It's a straight bolt-on, entailing a reprogrammed engine-control chip, a revised cylinder head, a new supercharger, a smaller supercharger drive pulley, and an upgraded exhaust system designed to reduce back pressure.

The bulk of the development time on the S program was devoted to machine work on the cylinder head, aimed at improving intake and exhaust flow. No changes were made to the valvetrain, compression ratio, or crankshaft. The vanes of the new Eaton supercharger are coated with a ceramic compound that provides better sealing, and maximum boost has been bumped from 11.6 to 14.0 psi. Although the system generates more heat than the stock setup, JCW and BMW are confident the Mini's intercoolers and cooling system can handle it without a problem. Similarly, the development team feels the stock clutch and six-speed manual gearbox can deal with the extra thrust.
---------

If you do the JCW upgrade you get the warranty intact and that is what counts- what you are paying more for. It's peace of mind. For about $3000-5000 you can get all of the other upgrades like Pully, ECU, throttlebody, header, cat-back exhaust, ignition upgrade (wires, colder plugs, coil upgrade) plus full suspension upgrade and full lighter wheel upgrade. The engine won't blow up. Expect about 210 to 230 HP depending on your choice of upgrades.

Don't worry too much about the changes to the Head- they are OK but you can get by without them. The ECU reprogram isn't much- aftermarket would be better- check out the GIAC when released soon or the shark injector. You still lack an intake with the kit- consider the alta intake with hose another $260.

Don't forget about suspension, brakes, and wheels. You can use the stock ones for now.

 

my advice is to buy the Mini S with as few sport options as possible since aftermarket wheels, suspension, stereo, etc. are a better choice. I even changed out my seats, after paying extra for heated. sport seats! definitely don't get DSC if you plan on sporty driving...the first thing I do when stariing the car is to disable DSC. You can probably save a couple thou on the new car price and use that to immediately buy some lightweight wheels and good tires, lowering springs and a stiffer rear sway bar. Then you can get into the power mods

 

Thank you for the advice. I guess I could've made my question much more succinct.

How can you get 200hp from the aftermarket with just an intake, pulley, chip and exhaust, when John Cooper has to use headwork to get there?

Mini Madness charges about $2k for ported heads. If you buy those on top of all the other goodies, you are going to be knocking on the door of the the JCW kit in price, for probably about the same power, and you don't have a warranty.

The aftermarket uses the same pulley ratios, the exhausts are probably really close, the chip is probably pretty close. So how do you make the same power without headwork? My guess is that you probably don't because all the aftermarket kits are based on guesses at flywheel hp based on some sort of wheel dyno with a *correction* factor.

The only thing you don't get with the JCW is the intake.

Anybody have a wheel dyno of a JCW kit? (not that that would mean anything as wheel dynos really aren't that accurate).

Thanks.

-dc

 

>>The aftermarket uses the same pulley ratios, the exhausts are probably really close, the chip is probably pretty close. So how do you make the same power without headwork? My guess is that you probably don't because all the aftermarket kits are based on guesses at flywheel hp based on some sort of wheel dyno with a *correction* factor.
>>
>>The only thing you don't get with the JCW is the intake.


I think the JCW was designed to add power, retaining the best driveability and most importantly limit the possibilities for warranty related issues. The system needed to be covered under the MINI Warranty so I think most of the components are conservative on power. I would guess most aftermarket exhausts and ECU's are giving more power than the JCW, add the fact that you don't get an intake and I think that's where most of the difference is. JCW probably gains some back with the head but probably not much. Very few people who haven't gone the JCW route are bothering with head work because the Cost per HP is very high. I think JCW did it becase it was one thing that would have no effect on causing any warranty issues.

I personally don't care much for the JCW. I think if someone doesn't like working on their car and can afford it then it's probably the way to go. I'm cheap, like to work on my own car and most importantly I like to research and choose exactly what parts I want on the car. With all the parts I plan to install, I should exceed the JCW HP and have enough money left in my pocket to buy an new engine if it blows and still be under the cost of the JCW. I think the risk is extreamly low that anything will go wrong with my engine so the warranty issue isn't an issue to me.

 

there have been quite a few dyno postings of the aftermarket bolt-on mods (intake, exhaust, chip pulley...no head work) that have show as much as 190 wheel hp, maybe more. No one has posted results for a re-worked blower or ported head yet. We also have not seem these same dyno testers running a JCW for comparison; I tend to distrust comparing dyno readings made by different individuals/dynos, not to mention the application of correction factors. The most trusted results are raw wheel hp, which is what Randy and Helix have been posting.

We are awaiting the possible arrival of a JCW competitor at the dragstrip this next Friday to put his times up against some of the above modded cars.

Dyno results are not the entire story, driveability, powerband and a wide torque curve have much more to do with actual performance.

 

From what I understand the JCW head work is miniscule, as are the changes in the s/c. The 15% reduction aftermarket pulley is actually slightly smaller than the JCW pulley. The exhaust is not quite as free flow as some others and the ECU remap is also relatively tame. Together though it is a great package but at a steep price.
I am in agreement with JLM and had I realized I was going to modify my car some, I would have done what he advises. Order what you want keeping in mind all of the mods you can do. For the money of a JCW kit you can get your 200+ hp and mod your suspension and wheels as well. Unless of course a engine warranty mean more to you. Your decision

 

I agree and disagree with jlm... if you are raching your MINI all the time then I agree with what he says. But if you don't plan on racing too much or taking it too seriously, I think a lot of the sports components are quite good. (Certainly better than most cars in the same price range)

I for one am really happy about the heated sport leather seats. Granted I'm sure they are a lot heavier than aftermarket seats but I'm not as concerned with racing. I think the shocks are pretty decent though I do have plans for a stiffer rear swaybar.

Wheels are the big thing that I wish I didn't do. I got the 17" S-Lites and I'm regretting that a little bit. While I do like the 17's, I think the wheels and the runflats are a little heavier and I've seen a lot of aftermarket wheels. I wish I had just gotten the 16" wheels and put a set of snow tires on them.

While I haven't modded my MINI too much, I am saving up to do so. I got the 15% reduction pulley and that was well worth it. New exhaust, new headers, Intake and ECU should get you pretty close to the JCW kit. The port and polished heads really don't offer that much HP, especially for the price. The JCW kit was designed to not give an "aftermarket" look and more importantly, sound. I'm sure the aftermarket exhausts are better and while there are some ok ECUs, nothing has really stood above the rest. Hopefull the GIAC chip helix is working on will change all that. If you want more detailed information about specific products, give eith helix or randy a call (or an e-mail) and they should be able to help taylor a setup just for you.

 

My understanding is that the JCW head work is supposed to improve flow, but also help with the dissipation of extra heat. I've read this in a few interviews, but have not seen any confirmation that anything other than porting or polishing was done. NE1 know more, whether coolant channels were changed?

Regarding cooling:
Another item I have read about but not heard any confirmation on since is this:
the JCW supercharger differs in THREE ways from the stock unit:
1) 15% smaller pulley
2) ceramic coated vanes
3) different reduction gearing for the back mounted water pump.
this latter mod may be important, as it is supposed to be designed to keep the water pump rpms and coolant flow at nearly stock levels, not higher. If you do the aftermarket 15% pulley, your waterpump will spin faster, and I am not sure what that will do to the system, in terms of long-term pump reliability or that of other coolant elements.
Any thoughts?

Also, as others have said, the JCW ECU mods are very minor. A major consideration for the JCW was maintaining the stock EPA mileage ratings (they were actually improved) and emissions, hence it is a comparatively mild kit.

For a long time I was strongly eyeing the JCW kit, but have decided to go aftermarket: price is biggest consideration, but I like the idea of other combinations of mods.

Here's my own list (so far):
high flow intake (probably BMP)
Alta large air-air intercooler
15% pulley
maybe throttle body
ECU (not sure which, probably the Shark due to price, driveability etc...)
UUC exhaust.

However, before I even start with power mods, I will work on suspension stuff.
First in line is rear sway bar (ordered but not installed yet), next will be tires and rims.

Cheers,
M.

 

I have the Mini-Madness stage II Head and schrick CAM. I dont have it on yet but the port and pollish looks much more agressive than the JCW head I saw at the dealer. The Stage III head has larger valves etc but since I was going for torque I opted to stick with the stock valves. There is only room for about 2mm difference in size in valves before you need to wield in a new chamber and valve seat area. That route is going to be expensive.

I agree that the JCW head was basically for marketing and something to generate cash for the dealers on install. They didnt do much to it. I plan on doing a before and after dyno of my head so I will keep you all posted.

I think for the money you can do much better with aftermarket. I have tons of mods and almost 20k with no problems.

 

I plan to dyno my JCW this Saturday, if I get my car back in time. It's all stock except for a K&N drop-in filter and includes the factory 16" V-spokes.

 

>>I have the Mini-Madness stage II Head and schrick CAM. I dont have it on yet but the port and pollish looks much more agressive than the JCW head I saw at the dealer. The Stage III head has larger valves etc but since I was going for torque I opted to stick with the stock valves. There is only room for about 2mm difference in size in valves before you need to wield in a new chamber and valve seat area. That route is going to be expensive.

Coopertino-
Let us know what you think of your Stage II upgrade once you install it and drive it around. Is it worth the cost and effort. I agree the port and polish on yours is much more than on the JCW kit.

>>I agree that the JCW head was basically for marketing and something to generate cash for the dealers on install. They didnt do much to it. I plan on doing a before and after dyno of my head so I will keep you all posted.

The head work on the JCW kit is not worth that much in terms of performance. It doesn't hurt except in the wallet.
Can you tell the difference when you drive the car (just due to the head work)- nope. So it is part of the higher cost.
If they offered the kit with no header work for $1200 less I bet many more kits would be sold with no great impact on performance.

>>I think for the money you can do much better with aftermarket. I have tons of mods and almost 20k with no problems.
Just for comparison there are good packages available through Webbmotorsport- just give RandyBMC a call

Or there is the 205 ($1750) and 215 HP ($2495) MiniMania upgrade packages (difference is the ECU)
http://new.minimania.com/web/item/NMK1006/invDetail.cfm
http://new.minimania.com/web/item/NMK1007/invDetail.cfm


So the decision is yours. The warranty for two years or the remaining time on your new car warranty is the basic additional benefit. I would agree with Super_MINI's post. The kit power and design are conservative to allow some benefit without undue stress on the stock components and thus would be easy to allow an additional two year warranty from the MINI/BMW point of view.

 

Most of the information above is accurate. I will add a few more pieces of information.

The 15% reduction pulley is slightly smaller than the JCW pulley. Very, very small difference, but this does contribute slightly to the aftermarket pulley.

The JCW chip, according John Cooper Works, adds about 2hp to the car, while many of the aftermarket chips are seeing 10-15hp increases. JCW says that they mainly cleaned up the throttle response, but didn't want to touch anything else because of emissions....

The JCW kit does not include any other pulleys for the waterpump.

The JCW exhaust produces is still not as efficient as some of the aftermarket units.

The new supercharger really does not provider anymore efficiency to the supercharger. I believe Randy spoke with Eaton and they said the new generation supercharger provided very little increase in efficiency.

The JCW kit barely makes 200 hp at the crank, while many of the aftermarket 200hp kits are producing a few more than 200hp. I believe Randy's produces about 205-209hp at the crank.

The warranty is not really worth the extra money, because the kit is only provided with a two year warranty or the base vehicle warranty of 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, which ever comes first.

The only real purpose of purchasing the JCW kit is for the heritage and possible resale value, but since you are debadging it, and you are not interested in the heritage as stated in your first post, than this is irrelevant.

You could purchase the following for much cheaper and much better performance:
-Atla Intake ($259)
-15% Reduction Pulley ($165)
-Powerchip ECU upgrade ($690)
-Exhaust ($650-$900)
-Larger Intercooler ($990)
-Denso Sparkplugs ($65)

This would be a total of $2800-$3100, plus labor. This doesn't include a new head or supercharger, but the Intercooler should make things cooler since the boost is going up. This should put you well above the 200hp mark. Randy at Webbmotorsports has some excellent knowledge and can put together a good system for you that exceeds the JCW.

 

>>Most of the information above is accurate. I will add a few more pieces of information.
>>
>>The 15% reduction pulley is slightly smaller than the JCW pulley. Very, very small difference, but this does contribute slightly to the aftermarket pulley.
>>
>>The JCW chip, according John Cooper Works, adds about 2hp to the car, while many of the aftermarket chips are seeing 10-15hp increases. JCW says that they mainly cleaned up the throttle response, but didn't want to touch anything else because of emissions....
>>
>>The JCW kit does not include any other pulleys for the waterpump.
>>
>>The JCW exhaust produces is still not as efficient as some of the aftermarket units.
>>
>>The new supercharger really does not provider anymore efficiency to the supercharger. I believe Randy spoke with Eaton and they said the new generation supercharger provided very little increase in efficiency.
>>
>>The JCW kit barely makes 200 hp at the crank, while many of the aftermarket 200hp kits are producing a few more than 200hp. I believe Randy's produces about 205-209hp at the crank.
>>
>>The warranty is not really worth the extra money, because the kit is only provided with a two year warranty or the base vehicle warranty of 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, which ever comes first.
>>
>>The only real purpose of purchasing the JCW kit is for the heritage and possible resale value, but since you are debadging it, and you are not interested in the heritage as stated in your first post, than this is irrelevant.
>>
>>This would be a total of $2800-$3100, plus labor. This doesn't include a new head or supercharger, but the Intercooler should make things cooler since the boost is going up. This should put you well above the 200hp mark. Randy at Webbmotorsports has some excellent knowledge and can put together a good system for you that exceeds the JCW.

Thanks dgszweda1-
Good comparison summary.
Is the warranty worth it for the cost?- well not really as you mentioned but maybe for some people that want the peace of mind that it is covered- the risk averse.
Caution- for me the other issue is shipping cost. And for some the other is labor- which can be costly if you don't do it yourself. Also I don't have access to a good MINI tuner shop so I don't trust anyone to do my pulley install.

>>You could purchase the following for much cheaper and much better performance:
>>-Atla Intake ($259)
>>-15% Reduction Pulley ($165)
>>-Powerchip ECU upgrade ($690)
>>-Exhaust ($650-$900)
>>-Larger Intercooler ($990)
>>-Denso Sparkplugs ($65)
As for this list there are some options-
ECU upgrades are changing and it is unclear just which ECU might be the best choice- PowerChip is good but many of us are waiting on tests comparing the Shark injector with the new GIAC chip vs Evotech and the PowerChip. Prices range from $400 to 690. Watch for the comparisons in the future.

Larger intercooler comes in two varieties- Air to air and Water to air. Both in the $1000 range. There are threads on the pros and cons. Most people do not need this type of upgrade and there are considerable labor costs and maintenance costs with the water to air IC.

Besides the sparkplugs (one setting colder is popular for MCS) there is the pilo ignition upgrade kit for about $140.

And there is an exhaust header (Milltek/ London stainless, MiniMania or Supersprint) that improves some midrange power/torque. Some people are waiting for Dyno results before deciding on it. Rough cost $650 to 900 plus labor. Most headers will add some loudness to the exhaust and all headers will work with any exhaust system- the benefits and noise are bit more with a free flowing aftermarket cat -back exhaust system.

 

A few more notes on the side.

I read in a British magazine a month or two ago that JCW has been testing other performance components to make available to the public. They have indicated that with their extensive testing that the current MCS is able to handle 240hp reliably without any change to internals (i.e. brakes, suspension, core engine components). So this should give you an idea that 200hp is really not hitting the edge of the limits for the car.

As far as reliablity goes, yes the JCW has tested their components more than other aftermarket components, and you are paying for some of that testing and reliability. On the other hand, the flipside is that if JCW put a 15% reduction pulley on their car and it goes 150,000 miles reliably, than any 15% reduction pulley should be able to perform the same task. What I am trying to say is that most of the 200hp kits by most reputable aftermarket companies, follow the same types of changes that the JCW is making and therefore based on the testing JCW has done they should perform the same or nearly the same. I am not saying this is true for company XYZ out of their garage, but for companies like Alta who build quality components this should hold true.

Also, a lot of the difference in price between aftermarket companies and JCW is that JCW is increasing their prices to absorb their extensive R&D and testing. And BMW is putting a hefty surcharge on the kit because one-they are BMW, and two-becuase they are also placing a warranty on the kit.

If you are going to do some autox on the weekends and driving the car hard, you may want to look at taking the extra money you save from going aftermarket and building a better all around car with improved suspension and brakes.

Okay, I think I am done now. Good luck and have fun.

 

to comment on this: " While I do like the 17's, I think the wheels and the runflats are a little heavier..."

the Mini packaged sport alloy 17" rims with runflats weigh 50 lbs each; my 16" OZ/Superleggera/Toyo Proxes weigh 34 lbs each


I think Randy is getting considerably more than 200 crank HP; as I reall, he was 200 at the wheels with just bolt-ons (no piston or head work). that would convert to about 230 at the crank, using a 15% driveline loss factor. My punky rig is getting 170 whp which converts to 200hp and I'm complaining about it being too wimpy!

 

Wow!! What great responses. I'll add awesome web community to my list of Mini pluses.

I'm leaning towards aftermarket because I know myself well enough to know that I would probably upgrade the JCW and void the warranty for 10 more horsepower anyway. A 240hp MCS would be a fun ride.

I love the R90 wheels but my dealer wants $2500 for them, any good lightweight comparable wheels?

Thank you again gang. I really appreciate all the help.

-dc

 

early apex those wheels are much cheaper if you just buy the BBS ones. they are identical i believe but of course don't say MINI on them so.... They aren't all that light anyways, so do some homework first. i recommend TireRack of course as they are extremely helpful and a great contributor to this site.

 

>>Wow!! What great responses. I'll add awesome web community to my list of Mini pluses.
>>
>>I'm leaning towards aftermarket because I know myself well enough to know that I would probably upgrade the JCW and void the warranty for 10 more horsepower anyway. A 240hp MCS would be a fun ride.
>>
>>I love the R90 wheels but my dealer wants $2500 for them, any good lightweight comparable wheels?
>>
>>Thank you again gang. I really appreciate all the help.

If you like the R90s then read this (both pages)
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...2&start=25
Good luck.

 

Someone posted this link http://brodie-brittain.com/
for some really high end conversions of the Mini. They are in the UK, but it looks like they will ship the kits anywhere. 275hp looks pretty cool.