I have a Cooper S with the clear tail light option....when petitioning BMW for rear fog lamp activation finally rewarded us with that option, I went ahead and purchased/installed the full toggle bank only to find out that upon bringing the car in for rear fog light enabling I learned that this is not an option for those of us who have the clear rear lamps. Has there been any experience with this conundrum in the NAM community. I find it difficult to believe that I am the only one who has encountered this difficulty. Hopefully there are some resourceful individuals ou there who have found the "end run" that allows the use use of the upper bulbs as accessory brake lamps (as per DOT requirementa) and still override the upper bulbs brake function upon toggling ON the rear fog light function. There is a subtle difference here from the normal "diode brake mod" solution in that with the OE red tail lamps, the upper bulb did not have a purpose at all prior to "1 to 4" jumpering with either a paperclip mod or a diode mod. Thanks a ton for insights. dave :smile:

 

A very special thanks to GreatBear for thoughtful insights in the last couple of days.

 

Hi,

I may not be picking up on your subtle point so sorry if that is the case... but I would like to help:

So, when would you need the fogs to override the brake light?

I also have clear rear lights and a factory rear fog switch (these are standard in Australia and Europe I believe). I used the diode mod to get the top bulbs to come on with the anchors (aka brakes) but they are completely off when not braking. The bottom ones of course come on normally with the running lights and become bright when I apply the anchors.

So when I want the fogs "on" the toggle activates them as per usual. This is usually needed when you are moving anyway. When I hit the anchors the top just stay bright which seems okay too and of course the bottom and center lights come on as well. At this point even the orbiting Space Station sees you!

All seems cool with this scenario so have I missed something?

 

>>I have a Cooper S with the clear tail light option....I learned that this is not an option for those of us who have the clear rear lamps.

In order to have DOT approved white taillamps, it must be installed with the "install kit" (part # 63 12 0 146 748). However, the additional wires from the "install kit" will prevent the rear fog lamp (top one) to come on. Hence it is true that this optiion is not available for the "properly" installed white taillamps. On the other hand, if the kit is installed without the "install kit," the rear fog lamp can be activated like the standard red lamp.

A way around that is to re-intall the standard red lamps before taking the car to the dealership. Once the rear fog light is activated, switch back to the white ones, but without the additional wires from the install kit.

At this point, you can also do the brake light mod with GreatBear's instruction.

Now, you have white taillamps with rear fog lights and brake light mod. :smile:


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04 IB/W JCW MCS

 

OzMini.....Sorry about the cryptic description of the dilemma. I am amazed at how you all have come to my rescue....great community! I think that the illusory nature of the problem lies with our beloved DOT having mandated additional wiring with the clears which forces the upper bulbs to light with "anchor" activation. Since they (the upper bulbs) already have a function it becomes an issue of layering this new function somehow over the initial function. Easier said than done. Apparently in your part of the world, the only difference in the rear lamp packages is the color of the lenses, reflectors and bulbs.....they behave, nevertheless, like the OE red lamps. I appreciate the perspective you see this from and your solution would be perfect were it not for this DOT provision. I think that davecsumini has come up with the definitive solution and since I still have the OEs I will take this tack. Many thanks. dave :smile:

 

davecsumini.....simple, elegant and to the point. This seems like the right approach. This way there is no sense of "rule bending" or liability issues. Certainly these have been topics that a I have needed to broach with my local tech as I tried to persuade him that the DOT requirements would be satisfied with a "diode mod" while still acquiring this very useful rear fog lamp feature. What was not apparent to me at that visit though was that there is a proprietary wiring with the clears that makes these simple mods unsatisfactory. Since the circuit boards are identical (thanks GreatBear) and the draw is presumably the same, I can have "my cake and eat it too" by following this bait/switch tactic and then modify the clear modules to behave as they are mandated to behave ala DOT. All that is different is HOW it is accomplished. Bravo. Thanks a ton all...... dave :smile:

 

It's my understanding that the wiring harness that is required with the clear taillights to make them DOT compliant does more than just add the top light when breaking; it makes the bulbs burn the correct color and brightness. Without the harness kit, the bulbs will be a lot more dull (less easy to see, especially in sunlight) and also a pink/orange color, not the required red. I don't know that it's worth it in everyday driving to have taillights that other drivers can't see well... test out your mod before driving on public roads! (and report back, please)

 

Thanks Scoop.....These are nuances of function that I can find no documentation for. Point well taken and I will, over the next weeks, report more fully on what I have discovered. It still suprises me that there could be such broad variety within the wiring and software that seemingly would be there for the sole purpose of thwarting the simultaneous use of these MINI supplied rear bulb clusters and the now "condoned" fog lamp function???? And so the battle rages on. Any more insights or might davecsumini have the definitive solution. I would say that inadequate current to properly light these modules (i.e. pink syndrome) would preclude the earlier mentioned bait/switch tactic....nothing short of great brake lights and great fog lamp function will satisfy me.

 

javadavaz, you're welcome! :smile:

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04 IB/W JCW MCS

 

>>Without the harness kit, the bulbs will be a lot more dull ....

That is somewhat true. However, with the additional upper lamp after brake light mod, there should be sufficient brightness during braking to warn the car behind.


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04 IB/W JCW MCS

 

davecsumini......so you might concur with SCoop's conjecture that there is a change in the character of the light....somewhat less bright and somewhat pinkish/orangish? If that is so, I certainly would seek the solution that maintains that which I already have (properly wired and properly performing lamps) and simply adds this rear fog lamp feature. Granted, the fog lamps are only seldom used and the lesser concern but I own a LandRover as well which has the feature as standard issue and I have found them very useful on about a half dozen occasions when a beautiful road trip along Lake Superior turns into a "pea soup" experience. Visibility is key....nothing more....nothing less. I am intrigued by the first response to my post by OzMini who apparently has an arrangement that makes his MINI visible from "even the orbiting Space Station..." Is it possible that there is a different programming in the BCM in these other regions of the world? It would not seem that the install kit (wiring harness) could change the functions so dramatically. Anyway, thanks for the lively debate and I welcome any additional insights. You guys rock....I do think the answer is around the next corner and, in fact, may be your (davecsumini) solution. What is vexing is whether this muted color/intensity is an issue of true concern or is it a nuance or an individual perception. later dave :smile:

_________________
If it bends, it's funny....if it breaks, it's not funny.

 

Regarding the brightness of the bulb, I do concur to a certain degree. Although the brightness is somewhat compromised, it isn't noticeable unless they are placed side by side for direct comparison. For me and many other MINI owners who did the mod without "install kit," this really isn't an issue at all. :smile:

In any case, there're ways to increase the brightness of the bulbs, perhaps by either changing the bulbs or alter the current. I personally feel that it's not worth the trouble.


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04 IB/W JCW MCS

 

I just had the dealer activate the rear fog light and program the alarm. Afterwards, I switched the rear lights back to the clear ones and also did the brake light mod. Everything works perfectly. Thus, it's possible to have clear tail lamps with fog light and brake light mod.

 

>>I just had the dealer activate the rear fog light and program the alarm. Afterwards, I switched the rear lights back to the clear ones and also did the brake light mod. Everything works perfectly. Thus, it's possible to have clear tail lamps with fog light and brake light mod.
Well, davecsumini, it sounds as though yours is the best answer (indeed the right answer). In one of your replies, two previous, you suggested that the bulb brightness may be a minor issue but that is apparently not your "real life" experience in the wake of actually having done this procedure? It has been sooo cold up here in Minnesota that I am only now in the position to get this done myself....it was warm enough yesterday to switch out the lampsets (back to red) and I have an appointment to have them do this for me on Monday. AND, surprise of surprises, the timing could not be more appropriate insofar as my MINI has developed the dreaded spontaneous windshield stress fracturing. Two birds with one stone....or should I say "One windshield with no stones." Thanks again!

 

You're welcome!

For me, the brightness isn't an issue. After the brake mod, you'll have an additional light during braking. Trust me, the top fog light is mighty bright. Someone here actually got pulled over by the cop for leaving the fog lights on! They are, indeed, pretty bright!

 

I did my rear fog light the other weekend. I have them spliced to the wire of parking light so it will turn on as a parking light.


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04 Jet Black Mini Cooper, 03 Tarmac Black Evo VIII, 92 Black MX-3

 

>>...I have them spliced to the wire of parking light so it will turn on as a parking light.

Depending on where you are, you're increasing the chance of getting pulled over by the cops, as those fog lights are quite bright.

 

I had clear lights installed when I picked the car up. I'd like to get the rear fogs activated.

Any suggestions for those of us who don't have a spare set of "original" lights lying about? (My dealer kept mine, or if the lights were put on at the factory, then they never had them.)

As for my current lights, they (to me) seem a little dim, and somewhat orange. Is there any way I can tell whether my dealer/factory actually used the "install kit" when they put the car together for me at delievery?

Thx all.

 

I have the install kit (wiring harness) that is part of the clear tail light kit for 2003. The purpose of the harness is to connect the top bulb to an unused power circuit (fuse 36) via a relay that comes with the kit. With the kit installed, the difference in brightness is because the top bulb is now powered independently from the bottom bulb. If you remove fuse 36 and the top bulb does not light, the wiring harness is installed. At this point I have clear tails without the wiring harness. I plan to reinstall the red lenses prior to getting the dealer to program rear fogs. After rear fogs are working, I do not know whether I will do the diode mod or try to fix the wiring harness to work with the fogs.

 

>>I had clear lights installed when I picked the car up. I'd like to get the rear fogs activated.
>>
>>Any suggestions for those of us who don't have a spare set of "original" lights lying about? (My dealer kept mine, or if the lights were put on at the factory, then they never had them.)
>>
>>As for my current lights, they (to me) seem a little dim, and somewhat orange. Is there any way I can tell whether my dealer/factory actually used the "install kit" when they put the car together for me at delievery?
>>

If the lights appeared to be dim, you might not have the extra wires. After installing the switch panel and getting it activated, the rear fog lights will be controlled by the switch. Do keep in mind that the dealer might not activate the rear fog lights if you have the clear tail lights becuase of the issue discussed in this thread. I switched mine to the original lights before I had the fog lights activated and switch it back afterwards. :smile:

 

With special thanks to GreatBear, I pass on this private message from the same:

"Sent: Feb 10, 2004 - 08:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was doing some research since others have begun asking me about rear fogs/white light combos. It seems that if you have had the white lights done previously and installed the harness that accompanies them, the diode mod obviously does not work. If you have the dealer do this, of course they install the harness. Basically the harness uses a relay and some wiring to basically do the same thing as our beloved jumper mod. If you were to simply unplug the relay (it would be located inside the driver's footwell kickpanel) and install the diode mod, you should have the best of both worlds.

The white light install instructions I used was http://www.bridger.us/mini/howto/white_lights.pdf from the Bridger site (I didnt know this was there, and I thought I knew everything on his site!). I looked at what the wiring diagram showed and the locations of the components, and it seems it would be a very simple 'fix'. You will get the proper brake light function that MINI recommends for the white lights, and you have the fog lights as well. With the relay in place, you will encounter a 'latching' situation where the fog lights end up energizing the relay itself and consequently there is no shutting it off. Removal of the relay (and no other changes except the diode mod) should make everything peachy.

Feel free to tell me to go pound sand if you already figured this out. LOL "

Thanks again GreatBear dave

 

>>I have the install kit (wiring harness) that is part of the clear tail light kit for 2003. The purpose of the harness is to connect the top bulb to an unused power circuit (fuse 36) via a relay that comes with the kit. With the kit installed, the difference in brightness is because the top bulb is now powered independently from the bottom bulb. If you remove fuse 36 and the top bulb does not light, the wiring harness is installed. At this point I have clear tails without the wiring harness. I plan to reinstall the red lenses prior to getting the dealer to program rear fogs. After rear fogs are working, I do not know whether I will do the diode mod or try to fix the wiring harness to work with the fogs.
Gavalencia....If you do figure out a method for the alteration of the wiring harness to accomplish all of the desired goals, let us know the method of your madness. You will note GreatBear's solution of simply disabling the special wiring harness by removal of the relay and then performing the diode modification.....voila. If there is a way to leave the relay in and accomplish dual functionality while not diminishing the bulb brightnesses in any way, would that not be the Holy Grail? Thanks all. dave

_________________
If it bends, it's funny....if it breaks, it's not funny.

 

We have 04 with rear fogs. We just put the clear lights in from our beloved G MINI and they work fine. No harness, no mod. As stated before careful with those rear fogs, they are blinding!

 

Maybe someone can tell me how to replace the third brake light under the spoiler. I found that there are two bolts but the spoiler seems to be stuck on there with some adhesive. thanks

 

Re: Replacing Relay with diodes idea - I do not think this makes alot of sense since with the relay gone, the lights would be on all the time (or off if the diodes were biased the other way). The problem with the wiring harness install is that the rear fog light is disconnected from the "normal" rear fog circuit. A better idea would be to reconnect the rear fogs to the original point (in the body control module under the right front trim panel). This would restore the fog light switch. Then you might be able to reconnect the relay output to this same point. I do not think diodes would be needed in this scenario because of the relay. I am loath to try this because removing the front left and right trim panels is no fun.