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Drivetrain :: Operation Vacuum Gain System (VGS)

  #476  
Old 11-01-2011, 07:03 PM
Applesauce
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Originally Posted by joe_bfstplk View Post
The fuel pressure regulator needs to pay attention to the amount of boost in the manifold after the supercharger, so that it can regulate (or adjust) the pressure of the fuel entering the injectors, which allows them to spray the right amount of fuel into each cylinder when opened.

The VGS taps into that boost pressure line in order to put boost pressure on the diaphragm that opens/closes the bypass valve (which is supposed to open at light throttle or idle, and dump the boost made by the supercharger). This helps it close more quickly and as completely as possible.
Thanks Dutch for attempting to explain it to me... I'm still confused, though: did Mini simply include a vacuum nipple (or a pair, given the short loop) on the BPV for the sole purpose of "sucking" the BPV closed should the user decide it might be better off that way?

In a driving report, this mod does...something. I'm not sure what. It definitely makes the car feel faster. I can't describe it much better than that! It also makes a funny noise, especially at WOT. Why would a 10" length of 5/32" hose make the car sound so very, very different, especially across the powerband? (i.e., it's not just different in the region where the BPV is actively closing or opening.) Sorry to sound so incredulous...but I am!
 
  #477  
Old 11-01-2011, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Applesauce View Post
Thanks Dutch for attempting to explain it to me... I'm still confused, though: did Mini simply include a vacuum nipple (or a pair, given the short loop) on the BPV for the sole purpose of "sucking" the BPV closed should the user decide it might be better off that way?
Actually, the vacuum sucks the BPV open, not closed. Its purpose is to dump boost pressure as soon as you let off the throttle. This helps with deceleration and doubtless makes it easier for the ECU to maintain useful air/fuel ratios during these transitions. The short loop on the BPV pulls vacuum from just inside the throttle body and uses it to pull the BPV open on light throttle and at idle.

Capping the vacuum port off and instead using boost/vacuum from the output side of the supercharger to operate the diaphragm allows the boost to push the valve closed when the spring has given up or is otherwise weak and not closing the valve soon enough or completely enough.

HTH!

C ya,
Dutch
 
  #478  
Old 11-07-2012, 12:23 PM
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I've read this entire thread and I must say that there are some pretty damn good ideas out there. I've already done the chrome "Blackout" with Plasti-Dip and Electrical tape as well as the LED Bulb install. I've gone as far as replacing the headliner with a black and grey Union Jack flag and spray painted all the plastics matte black with a matte clear coat. Before I swapped out the "little kitty" and stock BPV under the bonnet for the Spintex, I looped a wire to the BPV and brought the other end to the front left screw of the intercooler diverter plate in order to keep that damn valve closed. Then I reset the ECU. Cost me $2. The results were amazing.



~Joe

2003 Mini Cooper S
Chili Red w/ Black Roof, Caps, & Interior
"Make it whine like a puma in heat"
 
  #479  
Old 11-22-2013, 03:29 AM
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Has anyone tried setting this up with a re circulation valve or bypass valve that does opporate under boost and vacuum?

So effectively going with a BOV but the recirculating type vacuum holds it open to allow bleed off back to intake after TB as normal?
 
  #480  
Old 11-22-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by k567 View Post
Has anyone tried setting this up with a re circulation valve or bypass valve that does opporate under boost and vacuum?

So effectively going with a BOV but the recirculating type vacuum holds it open to allow bleed off back to intake after TB as normal?
If you are referring to the 2nd-Gen turbo models, they are designed for and are better suited for the recirculation valve. Way sells the upgraded valve. Supposed to be a good bang-for-the-buck part.
 
  #481  
Old 11-22-2013, 10:47 AM
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No talking about the R53
I've looked at the theory on the VGS and Ryephix methods along with the DT bypass
And just thought to myself a recirculating valve or diverter valve would do the same job and truly be able to use generated boost to close properly but under vacuum light throttle - idle will open the same way?
 
  #482  
Old 11-25-2013, 10:39 AM
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The idea behind the DT BPV is to alleviate the need for doing the VGS mod. I tried the mod about three years ago and actually created the condition it's designed to correct. So much for converting the stock BPV from vacuum-activated to boost-activated.

I don't think a BOV is effective on a supercharger setup. Never heard of anyone using one when I used to go to the hangout, and I would see plenty of roots and centrifugal setups on a wide variety of old-school American muscle. Superchargers quit applying boost the instant you let your foot off the accelerator. Turbos take longer to spin down, which is why some kind of recirculation/blowoff is effective.

These two threads explain where others thought of the same thing:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...rged-mini.html

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ve-on-r53.html
 

Last edited by JumpingJackFlash; 11-25-2013 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Added notes regarding the VGS mod
  #483  
Old 07-23-2014, 05:03 PM
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just so I'm understanding this, but this method doesn't work anymore for fixing the yo-yo effect?
 
  #484  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:44 AM
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If you are referring to my last post, that is not what I said. I did not have the yo-yo problem to begin with. The VGS mod attempts to fix the yo-yo effect and converts the bypass valve from a vacuum-operated device to a boost-operated device. I wanted to do the mod so I could get the valve to close faster. However, as a by-product, I created the yo-yo condition. My solution was to go back to the stock configuration, then purchase and install the Detroit-Tuned bypass valve. It has a different spring in the vacuum modulator and slams shut at the slightest tap of the accelerator.


The benefit of the VGS mod it it's a very low-cost, low effort solution. It does change how the engine responds and requires a bit of getting used to. If you do in-fact have the yo-yo condition, give it a try. The alternative is to get the DT BPV, which was $125 the last time I checked.
 
  #485  
Old 07-24-2014, 11:41 AM
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Just to chime in on the VGS mod vs. the DT spring. The "getting used to" issue related to the VGS mod comes from the introduction of a rather binary throttle response produced by the boost actuation of the BPV -- feathering the throttle becomes a more difficult (but doable) exercise. There is a very abrupt transition from no SC to full SC. The DT spring, however, produces a nice linear response and allows feathering of the throttle with predictable response.

I don't track my '04 MCS JCW any more so I have kept the VGS mod active. If I had continued to drive the track, I would have switched over to the DT spring for finer throttle control.

FWIW,

Theo
 
  #486  
Old 12-28-2014, 11:53 PM
808keith
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Jus did this mod and wow what a difference. Car is much smoother and more fun to drive now. Thanks for the tip!
 
  #487  
Old 10-24-2018, 12:13 PM
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Bringing this back. New to the forum and just picked up an O6 Cooper s.

I ended jp doing the first vacuum route from the first page. Having the T close to the FPR. Good news is i don’t have my EMS and service engine light anymore. ( guess it got unplugged when i changed my JCW filter to k&n. )

question is. Since I’m not using the flapper. Do i still need to plug my CAI to the bypass valve?

And is having the T closest to the manifold ( longer hose to bypass valve ) makes a difference?

Thank You
 
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