It was at the x9331 behind the kick panel near the hood lever. I've installed about 20+ aftermarket units over the past few years so I'm pretty good at this stuff. I am not sure why, but like I said it made a big difference in a box w 2 12" subs/amp/crossover connection in a saab I had. It was a stock head unit as well. I prefer keeping the stock look.

The install today on my mini went quickly, I used tap connectors on the wires from the X9331, ran the wires behind the plastic interior molding to the boot. I will have to take pics, there's no sign of the addition besides the boss bass600 in the boot. I did a passenger side install as I did not want the boot light to be covered. It doesn't do a good job lighting it up back there as it is. I grounded the system to a bolt/thread that was located on the frame near the factory amp on left side. I spliced into the positive wire on the cig/accesory plug in the boot and used that for the amp/sub remote and 12v input (I ran two wires even though one to both inputs would most likely have sufficed). I wish the boss would fit under one of the seats or in the tool kit area. Wishful thinking though. This kid really surprised me, it produces a lot more bass than one would expect. It is just riht for me as I'm not into bass that rattles a trunk or home windows.

 

Why would it matter?

 

Yes, phasing between the two channels is important, particularly to the low bass.

Low bass signals (typically) don't have strong single-channel stereo components. As an example, flipping one channel out of phase and then combining the two channels eliminates most of your bass, as you experienced.

Glad things worked out!

 

With the HIFI, the rear speaker wires have full range signal at the X9331, but after the amp, they have very little bass. So, connecting a sub to the rear speaker wires after the amp would not work out very well.

 

ahh to the rears....I tapped off of the fronts at the amp although I'm not sure if it was before or after the amp....One set was on the grey connector / one on the black....

thanks for clearing that up Robin.

 

hey guys! i just wanted to say thanks to k6rtm and euro and everyone else that helped with this thread. my boyfriend did this on my 09 mcs non hifi system in less than 20 minutes. he said he didnt need the special tool or anything. just separate the plug, then separate the pin lock. he says he used needle nosed pliers and just pulled them out.
i didnt think i could love my mini any more than i already do!! thanks so much for all your guys' help and research. i made my boyfriend read this whole thing so he wouldnt mess up!!
it now sounds awesome!! so those of you with the 09's dont be afraid. this works!

**oh and how do you make those cartoon mini's in your signatures? i want to make on for charlie, my 09 brg mcs!**

 

Someone mentioned acquiring the BMW tool to use for the pin extraction and that it would be very expensive. Here's my proposal:

We chip in and buy the tool as a group. Then we each use the tool and then ship it out to the next guy on the list. This will keep the buy-in cost VERY low and everyone will have access to the proper tool for the job.

I am hereby willing to put up or shut up RIGHT NOW - I'll throw in $10 to get the ball rolling. If we can get 5-10 members to pony-up, we're gold. I come from the tape and CD trading community and we do stuff like this ALL THE TIME. You just have to be a stand-up guy and honor your promises to pay for, use, and the ship out the tool the the next guy. BFD, right?

So, who else is willing to jump on this bandwagon I've created and LET'S MOTAH, BABY!!

-RW-

 

I took my HIFI equipped 2007 MCS to k6rtm's house so he could analyze the signals. He had the BMW tool, and some home-made versions. IIRC, he ended up using the home make versions.

We didn't do the swap, because he discovered that the filtering happened after the X9331 on the HIFI system.

Later, at home, I was adding a Bass600 sub and wanted access to the X9331 pins. I found using a Torx tool worked best for me. I have a jewelry workshop, so making a tool wasn't a problem, but the Torx was the easiest and most effective.

 

So I'm getting front components, 10" sub, and amp installed in my non-hifi system. I am going to show the installer the X9331 connector. Since I am just replacing the fronts, I wasn't going to do the swap. Does this mean I should tell them to connect the sub and amp to the front channels? How is the sub level on the head unit affected?

 

Don't do the swap.

Yes, sub connected to front channels in MINIs with the standard audio. With the standard, the channels are filtered at the head unit, so when they get to the X9331, they are already filtered. Unless they changed it, the rear channels have little or no bass.

What "sub level on the head unit"? I'm not aware of the head unit having a special channel for a sub.

 

First, a huge thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far. The amount of expertise and information here is staggering.

I have the Hi-Fi system (unfortunately) with Nav (if that's relevant) and I'm planning a complete overhaul of the sound system. Since the head unit plays such an important role in the car, I'm not going to be changing it out. Instead, I'll be using a Rockford Fostagte 3sixty.2 -- essentially a LOC on steroids. Like any other LOC, it takes speaker-level signals as inputs (4 channels + sub and center, obviously I won't be using the last two here) and outputs 6 line-level channels that will then run to my amps. I have read this entire thread, and am still left with a few questions:

1. Should I tap-in to the speaker-level signals at the X9331 connector or just before the Hi-Fi amp? If I understand correctly, the connector that runs into the amp also contains a remote power-on signal wire. As far as I can tell, nothing happens to the signals after the X9331 and before the amp, is this correct?

2. I read that the Hi-Fi amp must remain connected and certain inputs/outputs must be "shorted" with resistors. I also understand that certain functions of the radio are applied in the amp, like Speed Volume. Are we 100% certain of this? Don't the non-Hi-Fi owners who don't have an amp also have Speed Volume, implying that it's applied in the head unit or elsewhere? Also, shouldn't I be able to take my car to MINI and have them "reprovision" my head unit/central computer/whatever to the non-Hi-Fi settings so that I can completely remove the Hi-Fi amp without problems?

3. I am a little concerned about the volume-shaping issue addressed in this thread. Do we know for certain where the source of that shaping is? Ie: does it occur at the amp or at the head unit? I only ask because I'd like to know if its going to be an issue in the system I'm designing.

Thanks for all the incredible information thus-far!

 

Thanks may of us have worked very had with this stuff to be able to answer your questions. and i have more answers below.

Good choice, but what are you going to use for amps.?

You can do either but there is a lot of very small wires in the amp connector and at least in my case are very tightly wound and with out major work on the whole harness it would not have been possible at the amp.

If i can make another suggestion. Check http://www.newministuff.com/new/shop...uctshow&id=469 a harness. I purchased one from them and it just works out so much better IMHO. They are not cheap but work very well and no wire splicing, and it has the amp turn on line in it.

This is correct but the amp turn on line is not available in the X9331. It is buried at the top of the dash under the dash cover and almost impossible to get at except for at the amp connector.

almost all true. Yes the amp must stay in place, but no need for resistors on input or output. Resistors on the out put would have to be very large and the amp does not care as long as the output it not shorted.


Not true, the only thing that would be done by the amp is DSP but that does not exist on the MINI.

YES to answer above.

Speed Volume is done in the head unit, i know this as it works great in my car where the HiFi amp is still in the car but is not producing the audio

No, the car has a VIN number and that is what they use to decide what upgrades etc are to be applied. Your VIN number has the AMP attached to. Even if the service tech could figure out how to do that it would all be blown next time another tech worked on your car. They do minor updates according to the VIN Number just about any time the car is in.

the amp does most of the shaping. the head unit output is level expect for the 100 hz roll off on the rear channels.
The rear channels out of the head unit have a roll of below 100hz for this reason it is recommend that you use the front channels to drive your amps. If you really do require fader then use the front channels for your amp that will be used to drive the sub and then the rear channels for the speakers. But there are many ways of final hook up. Just make sure you use the front channels for the amp that drives the sub.

 

On the standard audio, the roll off does happen before the X9331 connector. However, my recollection is that when k6rtm tested my 2007, with HIFI, he found full signal on the rears at the X9331. That is why the X9331 channel swap doesn't make sense for the HIFI auido.

I would assume that the roll off happens in the HIFI amp, and not between the X9331 and the amp. If so, the "R56 speaker splice with front & rear RCA" harness from NewMINIStuff you mention and an amp might be an excellent way to bypass the roll off and maintain front-to-back balance. Hmm. I'm tempted.

I'm guessing that you used the harness that just has the RCAs for the front channels, right? What about wiring to the speakers? Did you run new wires, or tap into the MINI speaker wires as the exit the amp?

 

After doing some other testing there is still a roll off in the rear channels before the HiFi amp. it is not as drastic as the non HiFi but it is still there.

I used a single RCA output cable from New Mini Stuff to drive an Alpine PDX-5. i just use splitter cables to take the two head unit outputs (front) to the six amp inputs. I then balanced the sound output using the input level adjustments on the PDX-5. I set the rears for slightly lower than the fronts so that they are more of a fill than actual main speaker. I also used the highpass filter settings on the 4 main channel inputs to cut out anything below 100 hz from going to the fronts and rears and used the low pass filter on the amp to run only about 120 hz and lower to the sub. It took a long time to get the balance done but it has worked out very well. The reason I filtered out 100 hz and below for the front and rears is that at the volume levels i listen as the front and rear drives really could not handle the low freq's even the Focal 165V3's did not like 30 hz at those volumes.

I did away with the balance as even if there is someone in the rear seats i have no need for the rears to be faded off. Once the system is properly balanced i see no need to have an adjustment to screw it up.

As for wiring, I ran all new wire to each driver in the front and rear as OEM wire is just to small a gauge to work well. It was not an easy thing to run two 14 gauge wires into the front doors (took about 1-1/2 hours each door) but i did get it done. The tweeters in the pillars got 16 gauge wire as they do not need the current capability of the mids and woofers so those were easy to run. The rears were also rather easy after all the panels and rear seats were removed so they got 14 gauge as well. Sub woofer run is only about 3 feet so i used 10 gauge as that will be adequate for that short a run and 300 watts (max) of power.

 

Thanks for the quick answers guys. This will help tremendously.

To answer your question about the amps, schatzy, they are Eclipse amps. One 4 channel and a mono for the sub.

 

IMHO another good choice. My problem was space to put them I really do use all the extra space in my clubman when i travel.

 

Where did you measure it? Was it at the X9331 connector? We found roll off after the HIFI amp, but not at the X9331. We did not test at the amp imputs.

What year MINI were you testing?

 

With the Amp hooked up in the system and testing at the X9331 i had some roll off but only about 3-4 db. I then disconnected the X9331 connector and measured the outputs while connected to the Alpine and there was a roll off below 100 hz of about 9 db still not as bad as the Non HiFi but still it was there. Loading of an amp output, be it the one in the head unit or the HiFi is a very critical thing, it can really change the frequency response depending on how the load (impedence) of the input of the next item is set up. I measured the input impednace to the amp with an ohm meter and found it to be about 12k ohms. Then I measured it with a frequency spectrum analyzer and found that at about 200 hz the impedence went up to about 16k oms and at 100 hz it was at 24k ohms. Thus loading the head unit amp differently. The Alpine amp has a input impedance of 10k ohms +/- 2k over the 20hz-20khz range.

So there is the difference at least with my car. I am not saying all cars will be the same as they have changed the amp part number a couple of times since the original 07 start.

My car is an April 2008 Build.

 

@Coma... Did you consider the Alpine PDX for a single amp solution instead of two? Everyone's priorities are different, but I liked the PDX for its decent output and the fact it's a single amp to do everything.

As it turns out I'm likely going to just take the easy route and get a custom install at Reus Systems down in your neck of the woods. If I end up doing my own, the Alpine amp will be the one.

 

Comasynthesis suffers from irrational brand loyalty to Eclipse.

I've also had less than exceptional experiences with Alpine. I've owned an Eclipse CD5454 head unit since 2005 and in terms of features, nothing (including current similarly-priced Eclipse models) can touch it -- 13 bands of equalization, time alignment, crossovers, dsp, all in one amazing unit. It made my stock Honda system sound amazing. Unfortunately, it wouldn't be practical in the MINI, which is why I'm going with the 3sixty.2 instead. I also like Eclipse because they focus on clean accurate sound reproduction instead of the "how much glass can we break" philosophy of other companies. I'd rather have a system that sounds great than one that makes my ears bleed.

That said, I'm sure you can design a fantastic-sounding system with Alpine components. Brand loyalties are often irrational and mine is no exception, I'll admit that. :p

 

I'm not sure if this was mentioned earlier in this thread or not -- I've read about 95% of it so its possible I missed it:

There is a post here that maps out channel inputs (from the radio) to wire pairs at the harness going into the Hi-Fi amp. It notes that the front left channel uses the Black/Red and Black/Violet pair. This is 100% correct, but there is one caveat: there are TWO twisted pairs that are Black/Red & Black/Violet. I found this out the hard way when I tapped into the wrong pair and had awful distortion on the front left channel. I went to check my connections and discovered the second pair hidden in the middle of the bunch of wires.

For people attempting a project that involves tapping into these wires, I don't know what to tell you other than try one pair and if it sounds awful, you know you've got it wrong and switch to the other pair. I don't know why MINI used the same colors twice, but they did. :(

 

Did he just "pull out" the male pins? Or did he "pull out" the female pins?

I separated the plug, separated the pin lock, but the MALE pins would not just pull out...however, the FEMALE pins WOULD.

Sp even though others are saying the MALES are much easier to get out, working without a tool means the FEMALE are easier to get out?

Thanks...

 

I'm having trouble with the colors and pin numbers (I'm color blind, so I need to work with pin numbers).

Pin numbers...how do you tell which is which...start counting where and with the connector in what orientation?

Also, I've found it pretty easy to pull out the FEMALE pins with just needle nose pliers...are the pins counted the same way on the FEMALE connector as the MALE connector?

From comparing colors, it looks like the procedure with the FEMALE connectors is (wire in pin number X --> (moves to) pin number X)

2 --> 6
6 --> 2

3 --> 7
7 --> 3

4 --> 8
8 --> 4

5 --> 10
10 --> 5

Correct?

I made a couple short videos of the connector and which pins get swapped...how do we post videos? Or I can email them to anyone who wants them.

----

OK...this edit is 3.5 YEARS later...Feb 7, 2013...I was never able to figure the video upload thing, so I thought I'd write a couple notes here on how to figure which pin is which (the reason I came back to this project is that I got tired of hearing the bluetooth phone audio come out of the REAR speakers, I wanted to get that audio back to the front where it is easier to hear).

Holding the female portion of the X9331 connector, and looking at it from the bottom, where the male pins go in, with the 3 "v slots" on top, and 2 "v slots" on the bottom (the "v slots" are molded into the white connector...you'll see them),

1) The top row, from right to left (yes, right to left) are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...so #1 is in the upper right corner...that's top row, furthest to the right.

2) The bottom row, again from right to left, are numbered 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12.

Or graphically:

6 5 4 3 2 1
12 11 10 9 8 7

 

OK...verified...I did this work last night...the female pins/connectors pull out with moderate force with no special tool, and then they click securely back into place...YMMV.

 

OK, I've read this entire post and am impressed. I am now ready to do the swap and feel confident that it will work. Thanks to all who made it possible.

Question: I was driving my ford F-350 today and noticed that it had really good seperation between left and right speakers (go figure. I's a farm truck). I could clearly hear drums on one side and strings, vocal on the other. I have not noticed the in my Mini. Is it me or has anyone else noticed this??

Jim