Took my GP3 to the track again a couple weeks ago. Long story short: ended up damaging the passenger front wheel, which popped a whole in the tire.




Turns out the OEM 225/35/18 tires are pretty hard to find. Also turns out the OEM GP3 wheels are even harder to find. Not only are there none in AZ, and none in the USA, there are none WORLDWIDE. Currently, they have to be special ordered, which means a wait for them to be made, and then a wait for shipping, and a possible longer wait to pass customs. And they're expensive, about $500 installed. So, the search started for some new wheels and tires, which is a shame because I *really* like the OEM wheels.

It also turns out that finding aftermarket wheels that will fit without using spacers is a real PITA. I really wanted some more NM-Eng wheels like I had on my F56, but again, there are none that would fit without spacers. However, and a huge shoutout to Jerry at NM-Eng, I found some that work, with a tire size that is pretty badass!! He spent hours on the phone with me going over different wheel and tire sizing that would meet my requirements of: Track performance can't be worse, lightweight, and no spacers. We almost settled on the RSe52's in 18x9, but the 200tw tire selection was almost non-existent, and I really didn't want to be in a rare tire size again. So...

Behold, the TSW Nurburgring in 18x8.5, 32 offset with 235/40/18 Nitto NT05's. And yes, I'm still getting used to the bling.








Moral of the story: One-off wheels suck, even if they're awesome. Order a spare now so you're not stuck for long periods of time without your ride.

 

That sucks to have damaged your wheel.
Was that curb edge damage?

I like the “bling” of the new wheels. But if that doesn’t appeal to your liking, have them powder coated... just thinking out loud...

Check into wheel repair places. I believe bent (not cracked or broken, but not sure on that) can be repaired. Maybe there was a place was in PA. Not sure.

 

Good call on the powder coating, thanks. I'll probably look into that, heh. My dealership had a guy that was going to try to repair the wheel, actually. But I had to ask: Would I trust it on the track? Nope. I don't even know if I'd trust a brand new OEM wheel now, tbh.

 

But a repair would be good for the road. Save your track tires and wheels for the track. As for tires, I thing Clutch said something about the 235s bring more readily available and will fit the stock wheels.

 

David,

Ouch!!. I am concerned that will happen to me every time my GP3 hits a pothole on the street.

I was going to order an extra pair of OEM GP3 wheels in the spring when track days start back up. Guess I need to order them now.

Here's the link for them at MINIPARTSDIRECT in NC. MINI Part Number: 36 11 6 883 943. Their price is $376 each. If they can get them I guess.

https://www.minipartsdirect.com/oem-...13-36116883943.

After contacting Hankook HQ in Nashville I was told the MINI OEM tires are currently only available from your local BMW/MINI dealer.

MINI Part Number: 36 11 5 A23 553

Here is a dealer selling them.

https://www.oembmwminidiscountparts....41-36115a23553



Mark Chiles
Hershey, PA
2021 MINI JCW GP #999
2019 MINI JCW Orange International Edition (manual)
2013 MINI Cooper (Manual - Winter Car)
2009 Pontiac G8 GXP (6.2L - Manual)

 

While it looks like the Hancocks may be available, it seems that one up-size to a 235 might be worth while for a little wheel protection, as well as providing a wider selection of tires.

 

The GP3 comes from the factory in Oxford with Hankook Ventus S1 EVO Z (Star) tires in 225/35-18 on 18x8 wheels. The star means they are an OEM exclusive designed specifically for this car. These particular tires are manufactured in Europe.. You see the Star designation on other Hankook tires that were designed specifically for certain modules of Porsche and BMW.

These GP3 OEM tires, according to data provide by Hankook, have a diameter of 24.1 inches. Switching to a taller 235/40-18 tire (25.4 inches in diameter) will have a NEGATIVE effect on ride height, performance and handling.

Just switching to a 25+ inch diameter tire from a 24 inch diameter tire will RAISE the ride height of the vehicle by at least ONE-HALF Inch. This taller 25+ tire is also going to lengthen the 0-60 MPH and 0-100 MPH times. But, it will increase the top end of the car if that is what you want. It will just take a bit longer to get there. Changing the diameter of the tire is like changing gear ratios. Also the shift points and redline of the GP3 automatic will be effected as they were programmed by BMW/MINI with a 24" diameter tire. You might be able to overcome this by using the "flappy paddles".

The speed of the GP3 shown on the speedo may not be the actually velocity of the car on 235/40-18 tires. Again the taller tires effect the gearing of the car. The speedo of the GP3 on OEM 225/35-18 tires already reads about 5% high when compared to satellite or radar gun speed reading. The taller 235/40 tires may correct that speedometer error issue or make it worse.

The 235/40-18 tires will have a larger 'contact patch' then the 225/35-18, which WILL aid in cornering ability. However, steering response will be SLOWER as it will take more effort to turn the wheels due to the larger 'contact patch'. In other words, when you turn the steering wheel, the tires will not turn as quickly on the 235/40s as they did with the 225/35s. The car's handling will not be as responsive.

A 24 inch diameter 225/35-18 OEM tire on 18x8 wheels may have a better 0-60 time. But the 25 inch diameter 235/40-18 on 18x8.5 wheels may have better track times because they can maintain a higher speed in corners, but the car may be a little sluggish coming out of the corners.

As a rule, "WIDER is better". However, the DIAMETER of the tires also plays an important role. It all depends are your goals. The times on the track will make the determination as to which tire/wheel combination is the fastest.

As an alternative to the 225/35-18 OEM Hankooks, which are hard to find. I would recommend the Yokohama Advan A052 in 225/35-18 with treadwear 200. They will have similar handling characteristics of the Hankook OEM tires. These are available from Tire Rack. ($228 each). The Michelin Pilot Super Sports, Pirelli P-Zeros and other tires listed on the Tire Rack Website for GP3 in 225/35/18 I would not recommend. They are 'Full Depth" tires with 280+ treadwear. They may wear longer. But they will NOT have the performance and handling of the lower treadwear Hankook or Yokohama. Also, on the track the full depth tires will overheat the tread blocks and adversely wear and chunk the tread and ruin the tires. Back in the day, we used to take brand new "Full Depth" tires, put them on a "tire lathe" and shave the tread down to between 4/32 to 2/32". Now, they make DOT approved street tires with little tread depth that are almost slicks and quite sticky. Great for the track. Not so good in the wet or snow.

No, I am not a tire engineer, nor do I work for a tire company or a tire reseller. This knowledge comes from 35+ years of autocross and track time driving hundreds of cars on hundreds of tires/wheel combinations. Where picking the right tire/wheel combination can make the difference between "WINNING" or being "First Loser".

Mark Chiles
4 Time SCCA SOLO2 National Champion (One in a 2003 R50 MINI Cooper, One in a 2005 R53 Mini Cooper S)

2021 MINI JCW GP #999
2019 MINI JCW International Orange Edition (manual)
2013 MINI Cooper (manual - winter car)

 

Well I'll be darned, I was wondering if you were that Mark Chiles. I have enjoyed your driving a time or two in Lincoln i do believe. Thanks for inspiring me to autocross Minis.

Reckon I wore a set of Kosei's from you back in the day - and they made me faster due to the residual talent adhered to them before the change in ownership...

Cheers,

Charlie

 

My thought was more along the lines of having the taller tire for street use with the extra set of wheels, where what you say is (should be) less important. Just a thought...

 

Charlie,

Yep, I am "That" Mark Chiles. LOL. We have both been around racetracks, abandoned airfields and parking lot autocrosses longer than either of us want to admit. I think you bought a set of custom lightweight forged wheels I had manufactured for R50/R53 MINIs 15+ years ago.

Which reminded me that in my lecture above about the pros and cons of going to a larger diameter tire. I didn't even touch on how the WEIGHT of the tire and wheel combination also effects handling. The short course: Tire and wheels are considered 'Unsprung Weight" and the "The Lighter the Better". Larger wheels and tires and tires of full tread depth tend to weigh more. Heavy tires and wheel combinations have an adverse effect on handling and lap times. That is one of the reason lightweight forged wheels are so popular on the track. Lighter wheel/tire combinations may be just a few tenths or hundreds of a second quicker in lap times. But, autocrosses and championships are be won by 'thousands" of a second.

Mark

 

That stinks on the oem wheel, the TSW wheels look great, have not seen too many GP3s with aftermarket wheels. We have one guy come down with his GP3 and looking at aftermarket wheels, most did not clear unless you use spacers like you said.

 

Good thread with a plethora of valuable information. The GP is a garage queen now until warmer weather and most likely will not be put back into service until April. Hopefully, the cruddy virus will be manageable enough to allow the MOTD to happen. I am anxious to drive the dragon and other good roads in the area then! Thanks guys!

 

@mchiles Lots of good information there, thanks! And yeah, everything is a compromise. I've only been tracking my Mini's for about a year so I'm still very much learning everything. Which tires to use, the characteristics of tires, how they feel, did they feel that way because of how I drive or because of the tires, etc, etc. One thing that's definite right now is I don't want to be locked into specific tires because of size, which is one of the reasons I declined the original tire size.

Luckily, I'm not looking to "win" HPDE events (although I'm always trying to improve my times...but mostly through driver improvements), nor do I do AutoX (my brain can't process the sea of cones) so I'm ok with losing up to a couple seconds while I try various things to learn from. What I am looking for is being able to drive to the track, track, drive from the track on the same wheels/tires. I'm much too lazy to have a completely separate set for the track, lol!

 

What you say is true. I have been doing the track thing for quite a while now and I look at it as a continuous learning experience, not just turning laps. Part of that is experiencing different tires. My most recent find is a set of Falken 660s with a 200 TW. I found these to be very good on the track. In some respects, for the track, I like them more than the RE71Rs. These are worth a look for anyone interested in exploring new options.

As for tire diameter, all that has been said is pretty much true. Although, nothing is as cut and dry as was said. There is a practical difference where a taller tire may be quicker on the track than a shorter tire. My specific example is Watkins Glen where I have run 225-45x17s and 205-50x15s, which are 2” smaller in diameter. Theory would have it that the 15s would be faster given their lighter weight and smaller diameter. However, this doesn’t take into account shift points. At WGI there are 2 places where the 15” wheel/tires cause me to have to make another up/down shift sequence, or run on the rev limiter for a few seconds. The time lost doing that is more than time lost with the taller tires. Plus, there is the added effort of just making those shifts. The taller tires make for a more relaxed experience. I do run the 15” wheels/tires at Lime Rock Park, where acceleration out of corners on this really short track is a significant percentage of the time to get around the track.

Just food for thought...

PS - There is one big “Win” to a HPDE... Being able to drive one’s car home... And with a big simile on one’s face is a bonus... Enjoy and Motor On!

 

since day one, all MINI have a built in 'fudge' where the speed o meter reads a lil high. Been discussed many times. BMW same way. Seems some EU countries will ZAP makers if their speedo reads too low .... so some make 'em read high as a CYA factor ..... I've had 4 and they all read high. I have a free speed app on my phone - gets GPS speed - easy to check.

 

It is an addition of 3 mph onto the actual speed on the MINIs. Not a percentage. Same on my Jeep that was made when it was part of ‘Benz. I have checked this many times on radars that post your speed. I forget exactly at what speed this addition is included, but I think it is around 20 mph and above. It has been a while, but I seem to remember reading speed on my ScanGauge, which reads off the OBDII port, and it gave me the speed without the added 3 mph.

 

DavidPinAZ,

I was looking at the pictures of your car at the start of this thread. What have you polished/waxed you GP with? My "Barge Board" wheel arch extensions are not as shiny as yours. Or, is it that bright Arizona sun that makes them look like "Black Mirrors".

Photos of my GP at Pocono are on www.markchiles.com. My car is shiny. My barge boards are not. Did you polish/wax/apply a treatment to the barge boards?

Just wondering,

Thanks,

Mark Chiles
Hershey, PA
2021 MINI JCW GP #999
2019 MINI JCW International Orange Edition (manual)
2013 MINI Cooper (manual - winter car)

 

@mchiles A bit of a late reply, sorry about that. I had the same PPF applied to the spats that I had put on the front hood and other places. Thus the shiny.

 

Tire Rack now shows that they have GP3 OEM Hankook Tires in stock. $206 each.

Hankook Ventus S1 evo Z | 225/35R18 (tirerack.com)


Mark Chiles
Hershey, PA
2021 MINI JCW GP #999
2019 MINI JCW International Orange Edition (manual)
2013 MINI Cooper (manual - winter car)

 

Just FYI... A quick search turns up the same size in the Yokohama A052, and, not surprising, the Yoko is even more expensive... $227. It would be interesting to see/hear if it is any better.

 

There are multiple brands that now have the size, including Dunlop, but I am not a fan of them. Federal, MIchelin, Pirelli, Yokahoma, and Toyo as well.

 

I have a set of A052 in 225/35/18 that are at Discount Tire just waiting to be put on. We'll see how they do soon enough

 

David,

Where you able to replace your broken OEM GP3 wheel with a new one? How long did it take you to get it when you ordered from the MINI dealer?

I will be interesting on knowing what you think of the Yokohama Advan A052 225/35R18s on the track when compared with the OEM Hankook Ventus S1 EVO Z in 225/35R18s.

My first track event for 2021 will probably not be until April. I was trying to decide which extra tires to buy for my GP3. The Yokohamas or Hankooks. I am not ready to buy a set of non-OEM wheels just yet to go with a taller tire like a Bridgestone RE71-R.

Back in the day, ('80s and early '90s) I used Yokohama A008Rs and A001Rs on autocross and road race cars. They were awesome. Won my first SCCA National Championship on Yokohama A008Rs.

Mark Chiles
Hershey, PA
2021 MINI JCW GP #999
2019 MINI JCW Orange International Edition (manual)
2013 MINI Cooper (Manual - Winter Car)
2009 Pontiac G8 GXP (6.2L - Manual)

 

Yep, I got 2 so I have a spare, lol! They took just over a month to get here. I'm hoping to be able to have a comparison to the RE71R's in 235/40/18 in terms of how they taller tires affected the gearing in the GP3. My next track day looks to be on Jan 9 at Arizona Motorsport Park again. Hopefully I have my bent suspension bit's fixed before then...

 

The RE71Rs are 3# heavier per tire and over an inch larger in diameter. I would think the Yokos will feel better on that account alone. It will be really interesting to hear what you actually experience.



Did I miss something here? The last thing I remember hearing about this was that you were wondering if there was damage. Did you find out what actually happened?