Post number 2, and already he starts!

I posted in 1st Gear in the way of introduction; Now I'll just jump in and make a big ol' mess of it here.

I have previous Classic Mini experience and none with MINIs. I decided to get a used MINI for my daughter (in College) and she likes them, has test driven some. Same can be said for me. I've been scanning all the online listings and auctions for weeks! There are TONS of MINIs for sale and the prices are quite low due to the current economy, so I'm ready to jump. I'm trying to do the research to learn what the comparative "track record" has been of MKI and MKII cars. In reading scads of forum posts here and others, my head is spinning with visions of carboned-up ports, busted timing chains, chain tensioners, Belt tensioners, CVTs and fried clutches.
Now, don't mis-understand, I'm not complaining as all car brands have issues and its the nature of forums to concentrate the bad news.
I STILL want a MINI, so don't think I'm running 'em down.
Where I'm going is I need you folks to guide me so that I make the best decisions!
What it really comes down to is which (MKI or MKII) is more likely to be the more reliable transportation for my kid, assuming ~30K miles at purchase? The dealer would be 200 miles away from us and I would hope to never have to go there. I will be doing the maintenance. I'm not worried about the occasional loose trim or squeaks and rattle, but the stuff that would take the car off the road. If it needs "de-coking" or a clutch, I would be doing that as well.
I will be buying a MINI Cooper S, that much is known fact. I know, cuz she told me. Probably an automatic. Either a Panoroof OR a Vert.
On a related note, please tell me what to be on the watch for? I drove an 06 that had a fairly bad oil leak at the PS reservoir...bad cap seal or harbinger of pump trouble? Thanks in advance. Ricky

 

Hey Surly,know what u mean about forums.Have had my '06 S since new have had almost no problems some misc.body issues. Have 110k on it.look @'05 & 06 my opinion best of the lot.Don't no anything about the newer ones. just my opinion.

 

From what I can tell, the non-s Coopers are the most reliable while still being fun to drive. That said, I know the earlier ones with the CVT transmissions had problems, so you'll want to avoid those specific years or get a manual in those years.

It's always going to depend on your budget. The newer the car the better, of course. Make sure it was treated well by it's previous owner if you can - this is what makes and breaks a good car. Also, remember that their were major changes in 2007.

I think your daughter would be very happy with a non-S. They're still cute, sporty, and plenty fast.

 

You budget will be the final arbiter, but if you could I'd get her a new Justa Cooper with the sunroof. Let her buy the convertible when she graduates....

If the budget won't stretch to a new one, a 2007 or newer if you need an automatic would be the best. It will probably still have some factory warranty on it in case there's anything that needs to get straightened out, and it will be the more reliable car for her - it will also get a little bit better fuel mileage.

There are no "cheap" MINI Coopers, if you buy a low priced used one you'll spend money on repairs, if you buy a late model one, you'll pay up for the newness, that's why for the difference and assuming the budget will allow, the best bet is a new one. Right now the dealers have plenty of inventory and excellent financing rates so there are lots of choices, or you can order one exactly as she wants it.

 

Good advice so far. Hope I can help too.

My wife and I recently went through the hunt, find, and buy process ourselves. I did all the online "research" and gave advice, most of which she completely disregarded in buying the second car she drove because it was a nice one. She got a late '06 MINI Cooper (last of the Gen 1 "Justas") with the CVT tranny, but she liked the color and wheels.

Transmissions. While the CVT tranny in the Gen1s was well liked here early on (I went back to '02 postings here), the relatively few that broke were very expensive to replace. Thus, the manual in the Gen1s might be the better choice, as noted above. The automatics in the Gen2 MINIs seem much improved from what I've read, but they still lose some acceleration to the manuals.

MC versus MCS. At first I was convinced that a MC would not have enough power to be much fun (I would have chosen a newer MCS manual). I was wrong. In fact, it may be more fun to drive on the road (probably not track or autocross) than the MCS. Even the CVT MC can be driven in "sport" mode, and shifted manually. Yeah, it's still slow, but my wife thinks it's plenty fast. The MC has been somewhat more reliable than the MCS, but that's not saying a lot.

Used versus new. If "our" MINI had been for me, I would have bought a Gen2 MCS manual; maybe an '07 or '08, because at some point, I thought it would be better to just buy a new one. When the '11s came out, the remaining '10s were discounted as much as $2500 (maybe more; I didn't look into it) at our closest dealer.

Perhaps the best thing about my wife's '06 MC purchase is that is was indeed a very nice one; CPO with warranty, clean Carfax, and loaded with options. So I agree with the advice above to look for a well cared-for MINI, because that could save some grief later on.

 

Keep 'em coming, folks! I appreciate all the viewpoints and all the information I can get! It would probably help if I threw this in: my budget is approx 15K but I would (of course) love to get a 10K deal,too.
Im afraid it is a MUST that it be an S. That's as much me as it is her.
There are quite a few deals out there, it seems. (The ones I like the best are all quite distant!)
I'm leaning heavily toward the Aisin automatic as I've found nothing in the forums yet about them being problematic; I have read of some folks with repeated clutch troubles, tho.

My quest here is not about a specific car or having you guys find me one, but more about which versions are generally the most 'bulletproof'.

I'll be back

 

a word of caution: if you absolutely MUST get an S, I have read more than a few postings about the S version needing more frequent oil changes/refills than the non-S version. Of course, if anyone has a different experience, please jump in. I just wanted to mention it. I have a non-S, and after 6k miles, my oil levels are still at the max line. My previous car, and Infiniti G35 had a high performance engine and the oil became a real tiresome issue for me . . .

 

Carfax are still not the best document to depend, but a good start. Helped a friend look for a M3, Carfax came back "clean" and no accidents. Come to find out after going thru the dealer's PPI, they didn't like something about the right front (one bolt looked new on the control arm and one bolt looked a different color). Took it to a known body shop, found the right side was in fact, in a collision..there we saw, plastic fender under fender scrapped, the top right side wheel well had heavy tire marks, the bolts were installed in the wrong holes. Passed....

Always best to pay for an independent mechanics review.

Run the car for a good 20-25 minutes and get in a freeway ride with the radio off. Run it hard too.

Ask for service records if any or can get them from the dealer themselves (with help usually from the seller, since they may not give to you).

Take a strong magnet covered in a microfiber or any soft material and either run it along the sides and hood or spot check looking for the magnet to detect bondo for possible body damages (magnet will not stick).

 

I think you're right about the Aisin automatic being more reliable.

I'm looking for a reliable MCS year in the April 2010 Consumer Reports annual car issue. They show the '04 MCS as having "average" reliability; other years from '05 through '09 show worse than average reliability ('05, '08, and '09), or much worse than average reliability ('06 and '07). Problem areas for the '04 were mainly engine cooling and body hardware. Engine cooling was a problem area until the '07 and later cars. Major transmission problems from '05 to '07, fuel system problems from '05 through '08, body integrity problems from '07 through '09, and body hardware problems throughout the years, except for '06 and '07.

Of course, any used MCS you might consider may have already had some of the usual problems fixed, so complete service records on any car considered would be helpful. It's also the case that many owners have reported experiencing very few, or even none, of the usual problems. They're still waiting for the first shoe to drop.

 

From what i know the Justa Coopers have less problems = no turbo ! Fun to drive. I have a 09 Justa Cooper and its a blast ! I will hand over my key flob to my son this coming fall to go off to college = little does he know . Good luck on your search of a good Mini Cooper ! They are very good cars .
El Tiger

 

I am also doing research for my first MINI and am more and more leaning towards a manual "justa". I know how much fun the "S" is, but this is why I think a "justa" is going to be my choice (new or used, I'm still debating....that financing rate is amazing and tempting....)

#1: Reliability/Durability - no timing chain, no turbo/supercharger, no carbon buildup, no oil leak issues (from what I can find on the forum), less expensive to repair if needed. Less moving parts on an engine mean less that can break!

#2: Too much power in an "S". I know how I drive, I would drive like an even bigger *** in an MCS...don't need that.

#3: Better fuel economy (not by much but still better)

#4: I do more city than hwy driving so the HP difference isn't going to be that noticable since I won't have as much opportunity to go full throttle

#5: Price range. I am looking used at the moment, and for what I am willing to spend ($15-16k) I can find alot newer "justas" with more options than what I can get an MCS for.

 

I love my justa. One of my reasons, among many many others, was that when I get my next MINI then I will still have something to upgrade to without requiring mods - an S. Like magikald said, I already drive WAY too fast in my justa without even noticing. I don't need more power, it will just get me in trouble.

 

I'd also lean toward the "justacooper". I just got my '11, and as much as an S is more sporty with the hood scoop, upgraded rims, different bumper moldings, cooler engine noise etc, the reg coops are still pretty peppy-it definitely exceeded my expectations in terms of acceleration and handling. I've done a lot of research on buying a used MINI, and as mentioned, if you look at the 02-05 CVT trannys, they've had problems. I've seen many listings for those titled "mechanics special", car is in good shape, low miles, but bad tranny. Also, I'm pretty sure you'll get a better insurance rate for your daughter if its not an S or a convertible, no matter if it's used or new. If you absolutely want a used S for around $15k, i'd look in the 2005-2006 range, as the 2007-2010's don't usually go for under $17k because also as mentioned, in 2007, they made a lot of changes. Good luck!

 

My used 08 msc has been more of a headache than any other car I've driven. It completely depends on how the other person beat it...I mean...treated it. I do love the car when it's functioning at 100% but thats not the case most of the time. If you need something reliable, I would not suggest an S unless you're a very competent mechanic, but as you've said it's now a requirement for you. My best advice is to try as hard as you can to find a conservative driver and get as much information on the cars past as you can. Also, I've learned in the past that a carfax doesn't always tell you everything or even anything! Good luck! No matter which model you choose you will fall in love with it

 

Another Justa owner here. I've only had the car for about six months coming from a sportbike, but it has more than enough power to be fun and to get into trouble. I won't be doing any freeway racing, but it's peppy in the city and more than quick enough on the backroads. For that matter, I'm still passing everyone on the highways here when I want to, but there ARE a lot of slow drivers on the Island

 

Wow. Look at all the Justa defenders trying to change the only firm criterion the OP seems to have.

 

Just trying to give them fair warning! I know there are plenty of S's that are problem free but I would bet a fair amount that there are more problem free justas all about finding the gem thats bound to be out there somewhere

 

we're not posting negatively about the S's out of malice, or to defend ourselves because we feel inadequate compared to current S owners, thinking, "ooh, here's our chance, lets coax him over to our side!", but rather to steer the man in the best direction with which he and his daughter will get the most enjoyment out of their MINI

 

No harm, so no need to Justafy yourselves. I just thought all the Justa advocates coming out of the woodwork after the "MUST be an S" announcement was funny.

Actually, I thought having reliability and an S as the two main criteria was kinda funny too, but I was trying to work with that combination.

 

Justafy, nice.. hah. Yeah, not trashing the S by any means, just giving OP something to think about. If I found a smokin' deal on a really clean S I'd probably go for it, but the justa is both fun and reliable so just thought I'd throw my opinion into the mix and suggest against ruling it out.

 

Wow! Thanks for the replies. I don't mind the Justa-fications, each post adds to the picture.
My daughter and I Both like the look of the S as well as the performance; I drove an MC40 JCW (the full kit) last weekend and that was a blast-from-the-past experience, very reminiscent of the Classic Mini Cooper S, but comparatively so...refined!
My original intent was to sort out the Gen1/Gen2 question, notsomuch the S/base question but I'm learning to open up a bit!
I still want an MCS, but my faith gets badly shaken when I read the stories at consumeraffairs.com. Once you filter out the stories about CVTs, you're still looking at dozens of pages of issues and BIZARRE repair costs!
Radiator cap: $300!!!! Brake pads $800! strg pump $1500! The only thing not mentioned there was the 6spd auto trans!
I need you guys to reel me back in! Are your cars really that costly to own?

Many stories of (non-CVT) owners spending 5~12K on repairs! Eeeek!
Somebody tell me "it ain't so!" I still wanna MINI but I need reassurance here.

 

I have a 2008 MCS with just over 70k miles. Except for routine maintenance, I haven't had to spend a dime on repairs. I did get a couple items fixed under warranty. The brake job I recently did would have been $880 if I took it to the MINI dealer (pads and rotors). But I did it myself for about $650, about $200 of which was tools.

I will now find some wood to knock on.

 

MrSurly: I see such scary stuff posted on the Porsche and BMW websites I keep up with as well, but it's not enough to move me to a more reliable, but boring car. I treat the occasional scary stories as exceptions to the typical experience; but still keep in mind that, however unlikely, it could happen to my car too. Thus, I seem to be waiting for the first shoe to drop.

You could go to some of the MINI parts websites here to see parts pricing. Most seem to be reasonable to me. In terms of labor costs (for what you might not want to do yourself), the labor rates at independent shops are usually somewhat less than at dealers.

For the '06 MC my wife recently bought, I paid the following for labor at a highly respected local independent shop (labor rate = $87 per hour): PPI = $52; Four-wheel alignment (on a Hunter machine) = $104; Brake fluid flush and new fluid = $87; and Coolant flush and new phosphate-free coolant = $78.

Top 10 MINI problem areas from an "old" Road and Track survey of mostly '02 to '05 MINIs: (1) body & trim parts (rattles, buzzes, clicks, pops, and groans); (2) windshield cracks and chips; (3) electrical issues (esp. lights and windows); (4) cooling system; (5) steering system; (6) sunroof issues; (7) transmission issues; (8) sound system; (9) run-flat tires; (10) inadequate A/C. From what I've read here, not much has changed in that list.

From a still viable thread at this site, Annoying Things About Your MINI (or something like that): Run-flat tires, brake dust on wheels, sunroof (multiple aspects), rattles/buzzes, cup holders, no temp or oil pressure gauges, dirt/dust accumulation on rear, front struts mushrooming, no window auto full-up/down, smallish sun visors, fragile paint and windshield, torque-steer (MCS and JCW only, I'd guess), and window malfunctions. There were others, but the list was starting to get redundant, so I stopped taking notes.

We're not trying to talk you out of a MINI; we just want to be sure that you go in with eyes wide open.

Footnote: The recent Justa pushers' comments have me rethinking the Justa versus S question; not for you, but for me. Justas are more reliable, and stirring the stick during spirited drives is a lot of fun. My other cars have more power than I can use on the road anyway, so the Justa is actually a fun change of pace (so to speak) for me.

I'm impressed that you're doing more "research" prior to purchase than I did. That's good ("eyes wide open").

I also owned an old Mini Cooper S ('64 1275) during the '60s/'70s, which my wife and I both autocrossed. She imprinted on that car, so has wanted a MINI for several years.

 

I have heard you need to test drive both the Gen1 & Gen2 models to get a feel for the differences. I have read on this forum that the Gen1 cars are more "go-kart" like while the Gen2 cars are "more refined". I have test drove a 2011 MC & MCS, and I do have to say a brand new 2011 is a very very very nice car!...now to find an '04-06 to test drive....

I don't own a MINI (YET!!!!!) so don't take my word for anything. I have just been doing about 4-6 months of research so have been reading ALOT of articles/websites/forums!

 

Lots of good info!
OK, I have to admit that I'm studying on the Justas now... My daughter has driven several MCS Autos and ridden in MCS manuals. Then she drove a justa auto and I'll just bet it was a CVT!
So, not a real comparison to the MCS w/ Aisin.
If the only justa she's driven had a CVT, then maybe I better understand her impression, based on other's comments about the CVT.
So, I need to get clear on this:
1. CVTs were never used in MCS's, right?
2. Justa's with 'auto' are ALWAYS CVTs? or was there a choice of autos?
3. Aisin auto became available in Justa Cooper when?
4. If I want to look for a convertible Justa with Aisin auto, what year?
5. If I see a random Justa with auto, how do I easily tell if it's CVT car? Haven't seen one yet, only looked at S'.