E15 (15% ethanol) gasoline has just been approved by the EPA for 2007 and
newer vehicles. A decision about 2001 - 2007 vehicles is said to be due
in about a month. I think this is a step backwards. I believe MINI doesn't
recommend more than 10% ethanol in my 2003 MINI Cooper, and VW doesn't
recommend more than 10% ethanol in my wife's 2001 VW Cabrio.
Who is going to pay when the fuel pumps, etc. fail on these cars?
Another drop in gas mileage will accompany this change, as well.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=130526579

 

Yeah, my '05 is very temperamental with the 10%. I can't imagine how crappy she'd run with 15%. Get ready for major changes to automobile lifestyle in the next few years. The guvment is ready to crack down.

 

No ethanol in our vehicles! Going to use "pure gas" as long as it's available.

 

10% ethanol is already a nationwide mandate. You can't find "pure gas" anywhere anymore.

I'm very much against another 5%..... It's hard to understand the logic. Less oil is used to make the gas, but gas mileage suffers because of it, so we have to use more.

 

this sucks, no two ways about it. Energy density is down, although octane is up. And while this is coming in under the mandate of "renewable fuel", it's overall just worse for CO2 than running gas.....

I think this is just bad news all around.

Matt

 

You are wrong.

I'll snap a picture of my "pure gas" pump on the way home.

 

We used to have E0 (ethanol free gas) at Al's Auto on Route 30 and
the Shell station in Manchester, but now there's no E0 in York county at all anymore.

 

Folks can often get "pure gas" near lakes, rivers, etc, where boaters buy gas...it is around, but more costly.....

 

Just wanted to throw this up here for people that want to update their sigs.

 

 

I did a bunch of tests at Summit Point this summer with gas samples from NJ, VA and WVA. All of them were E10 with the exception of the pump Sunoco Ultra93 and 100 that was at the track.

My hope is that no one carries E15 and clearer heads prevail and we come to the realization that the subsidies and farming of corn don't lead to cleaner air. Time to put our efforts into battery technology and electric and hybrid cars that are attractive to those of us that like to drive while doing our share for the planet. The MiniE and Tesla are start but we have a LONG way to go.

///Rich

 

I'm very irritated that I don't have a choice. And even though it's good to know, I still won't be going to marinas to buy pure gasoline!

 

Maybe it's something special about Wisconsin, but there are plenty of stations that sell ethanol-free premium around here. Doesn't cost any more than your typical premium.

 

Sucks you don't have 93....
I'm thinking that 91 with 10% ethonol is likely 93...
That having been said...pure gas would be better in most cases...
Since I got my car Dino tuned on e10 93 octane, it runs fine...
So if you are on the fence with a tune...it helps... I could tell the differace between e10 and non before ...I can't anymore!!
That having been said, e15 is for model year 2007+ cars...older cars will have catylatic conveyer issues, and possible fuel pump issues...according to the EPA.

 

Ethanol raises octane, but 91 octane E10 is 91 octane rating.
It would be a lower octane rating if one removed the ethanol.

 

I was refering to the picture that showed e10 in both low and midgrade, but zero ethonol in the high octane...it was 91, ethonol free...
I was saying if the 10% was added... They would likely be selling it as 93.

 

So what would you prefer...

91e0 or 93e10?

 

Sorry, I misunderstood.

I'd prefer 93e0 then it would be a hard choice between 91e0 or 93e10.
I'd probably alternate 91e0 and 93e10 if I couldn't get 93e0.

Of course, at this point I can't get any e0 at all around here.

 

I had a HPFP issue, and they wanted to test the fuel before replacing it

Test of the original fuel 93e10 top tier came in at e13

Second tank 93e10 different top tier came in at e17

Third tank from a station that was beleived to to be e0 was ...e17

So if my math is right if e10 equals 15.67% ethanol on average then e15 will be around 23.5% ethanol. Or did they approve the changes knowing that what is being sold is not what is being advertised.

 

Ethanol is denser than gasoline. Ethanol is .789 g/cc, gas averages about .73 g/cc. that will give you a bit of a difference if you're measuring the volume percentage or the mass percentage.

Matt

 

My guess is whomever did the test was careless. I did around 50 samples of all sorts of gas. Shell (from 10 places all around VA, WVA and NJ which is Top Tier and all sorts of gas from brand and no brand places. Some of the sample owners were sure the gas was E0 as that is what the person at the station said it was. Again, all were pretty much exactly E10.

My guess is your samples were either carelessly done or you were contaminated with water as that is what binds to the ethanol in the test.

Test kits are cheap and available on eBay. If you are considering one, cheap is fine but note that the dye is handy and makes it easier to read.

Rich

 

When the government does something this stupid without weighing the concequences, then vote the b*%#ards out. Remember it is not the rich people driving cars that are more than three years old. Let's just hope that someone thinks this through and if it is mandated, it should be very well noted on the pump (like the pictures above).

 

Pump labeling is a state level mandate. Many states already require it. Nc does not- time to join up with boaters and landscaping buisnessrs to lobby.

 

They'll owe us all new cars....stupid f@#ks!

 

The intelligent solution should be a requirement that newer cars have a different size pump fillup. That way, no one could accidentally put the wrong fuel into their gas tank. Those with regular, unleaded, and E10 would have one size, and those with E15 would have another size. This would make pump selection "idiot-proof."

Beyond the sufficient evidence the ethanol industry claims to have, each and every car manufacturer would have to test E15 in each of their vehicles to make sure it does not cause engine or other damage. The article mentions ethanol burns hotter, causing catalytic converters to wear out prematurely. That may increase the cost of vehicles because they will have to be fitted with larger converters, or ones with a better purification system. Or simply buy one more often.

On the flip side, ethanol, whether it be from corn, other plants, french fry grease, etc., is supposed to have lower carbon monoxide (CO) emissions. If at some point we went to E85 altogether, there might be no need for a catalytic converter.

BGR Alex, if that's the case with pumps in Wisconsin, it would be nice if they did the same in the rest of the country. To know that premium gas does not have any ethanol would put alot of this to rest.

Here's a link if you want to read some quick myth vs. facts: http://www.energy.gov/media/BiofuelsMythVFact.pdf. The only item I disagree with is the myth/fact about harm to your engine.