I DO NOT want to rehash the whole octane thing. 91 and above when I finally take delivery; thats easy enough. My current ride is an Infiniti that requires premium fuel, and I don't argue that at all.

What I am curious about, is what exactly is "TOP TIER" premium fuel?
What actually makes a difference between top tier, and "not" tip tier?

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I certainly didn't see it when I searched.

 

http://www.toptiergas.com/

This site has the details. The issue seems to be additives that keep the engine clean.

 

ok, perfect. I wish they made it more clear (or maybe I just fail at figuring it out)

 

Not sure what isn't clear about what top tier gas is. Here's a quote from the website.

"TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. "

 

What is top tier gasoline? Where can i get it? Who can I get it from?

That website answers those questions. I meant make it clear from the mini's owners manual.

 

Chevron/Texaco the only thing that touches my MINI........

 

As all the fuel at the service stations come from the same depot (different additive packages per brand) use the one that is busiest for fresh fuel with less moisture.

 

What's your second choice?

 

There is no other choice. True all the fuel comes from the same distribution point, but the added Techron additive is the magic. Techron additive can be bought at AutoZone and is very expensive.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...fier=27796_0_0_

I have seen engines torn down that only ran Chevron/Texaco fuel and they are amazingly clean inside.

 

I'm familiar with Techron, and have been wanting to use Chevron for ages. But there aren't any Chevron stations within a reasonable distance of my various routes in Boulder County.

I've been using Shell V-Power in my MINI (and previously in my allroad), and I haven't had any complaints.

 

Those following Top Tier may note that Exxon is now on the list. They held out for a long time. I've been using Shell myself for a while now, but will use Exxon if no Shell is around.

 

I use Costco gas and Safeway, when I'm not near a Costco. I've torn down engines that only burned the cheap stuff and those where the owner only used Chevron, there was no difference in the deposits in the engine.

Top tier gas is just a marketing ploy.

Techron is an injector cleaner, nothing more. Octane rating is what is important.

Dave

 

Octane has nothing to do with how clean a fuel burns. If you car is designed for regular, it will burn just as clean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

 

Sorry, I meant for MINIs, it's important to use premium to get the best performance, not for cleaning the fuel system. Any fresh gas is as good as the next for keeping the fuel system clean.

Dave

 

I'll suggest what "top tier fuel" isn't...

It isn't the tank that I foolishly put in Gollum Sunday morning, thinking I was hundreds of miles from Nationals. Oops - I was only a hundred miles, so I had 3/4 of a tank during competition, finally burned down to 1/4 on the last run of the second day's' racing.

Bloody 91 octane with 10 percent ethanol - I could hear the pinging a little sometimes at full throttle, and I knew that the knock sensor was telling the ECM to retard the timing at just the point where I needed every bit of power the car could generate.

And there is a Harley dealer in Lincoln that sells 100+ octane, where I had hoped to fuel up for the event.

I wanted to siphon the darned tank!

Live and learn...

Cheers,

Charlie

 

Charlie,

Tell me about 100 octane. In a MC, not MCS, at an elevation of 5200 feet, what would 100 octane do in regard to performance, cleaning, etc?

Thanks!

 

At higher elevations, pre-detonation is less of a problem, so you should be able to use LOWER octane gas. This is why you usually see 91 octane or lower in higher elevation places.

Using higher octane than is called for (without sufficient advanced timing to require it) isn't going to do much for you I don't think

 

I was advised by a respected MINI tuner in SoCal to use 76 gasoline for best performance. I was not told details on why - but was told performance would be better than the Chevron I was using. I'm offering this just FWIW.

 

Here is 2 site to help you.
http://www.toptiergas.com/
And a NAM Sticky:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/stock-problems-issues/49184-gas-recommended-for-mcs-2.html

 

O.K., I've used BP almost religiously in my last Turbo car that required Premium fuel. (2000 New Beetle 1.8 Liter Turbo, 155,000 miles) Am I to understqand that the BP premium is NOT reccomended for our cars? It shouldn't be a huge deal since I can find a Shell rather close. I'm just used to pulling into the BP stations....

 

There is a "non-brand" gas station near by my house - PURE I guess would be the brand name - and that place is the only place with non-ethanol premium gas. Even Chevron has 10% alcohol content added into their gas. PURE is cheaper, and it feels like my car runs better. I've added in fuel additives and sea foam regularly, so I don't think using something that's not in Top Tier would be a problem.

 

Part of the problem with comparing gasoline brands is that there is no objective data available... It becomes more marketing and "religion". To compare, its very easy to find out how effective a brand of motor oil is... You just have to get UOA (used oil analysis) performed on that oil. To my knowledge, there is no real way to do that for gasoline. So, any decisions you make about a specific brand of gas is based on anecdote and marketing.

Top tier fuel is really a marketing coalition started by a number of auto manufactures, including BMW. To be a top tier fuel, your fuel supposedly have to meet a set of standards established by top tier. But this is only as valid as the enforcement of these standards, and it in no way affects the quality of other fuels. Perhaps BP meets or exceeds these standards, but doesn't want to pay the fees necessary to be certified as top tier. Perhaps Turkey Hill (a top tier fuel) paid the fees and went through the steps, but actually fills their tanks with a sub par fuel. Does top tier send inspectors to every pump and test the fuel on a regular basis? I don't think that's something we can find out.

Top tier is kind of like angus beef. Maybe it ensures a minimum level of quality, and maybe that level is higher than the EPA regulated minimums. Maybe it doesn't. If you buy a cetified Angus steak, its probably going to be good. It doesn't mean if you get a non-angus steak that it isn't going to be better.

One thing that top tier fuels do bring to the table is the ability to deflect the question if you do have a problem, and the dealership tries to play the bad gas angle. This definitely has some value if you end up in that situation.

In my area, its hard to find gas stations that are top tier. I'm not concerned enough to go out of my way to find top tier stations. If I'm near one, I'll use them. If I'm not, I tend to prefer Sunoco or BP.

Just my opinion.

 

I don't trust gas stations at all. If they add their additives which they tout, I have no way of knowing. Also, some people do care and do need to know correct octane ratings of the fuel they are buying. A Diamond Shamrock was just remodeled into a Valero lately and some new pumps were installed. The new pumps show 93 and the old ones still show 91. (I'm pretty sure they don't have two premium underground fuel tanks for each octane rating.( I did't notice that until I filled up at the 91's at another time. I never confronted the clerk because I'm sure they don't have a clue or a care.

 

There is a 76 station near me that sells premium fuel WITHOUT the ethanol.
The store at the station caters to boaters and such... Many of the old boat engines can't use fuel with ethanol...

 

100 octane burns a little slower, and will not detonate as easily under high pressure/tempurature - in an MC it might do nothing

in theory, in an MCS, I would want enough octane to avoid any ECM induced delay in the ignition timing due to pinging - in practice I bet that 93 octane is enough. it's my guess that the timing in the MCS is set with a certain octane in mind, and the computer can retard as needed (up to 10+ degrees of crank rotation) if the ping sensor is telling it to.

octane as i understand it has nothing at all to do with cleaning an engine - it just refers to the volatility of the fuel.

in my case I could hear a little ping under certain conditions which strongly suggested to me that the ignition was likely to be being delayed to correct that condition (which of course reduced the power available)