Uh I don't know but "warranty violation" comes to mind.

Has anybody actually run into a warranty issue where Mini would not cover a repair expense due to running less than 91 AKI?

 

Well, if the owner's manual says explicitly that the car can run on 87 without causing any damage and that 87 is all that is required, how could mini possibly claim any kind of warranty violation because you put 87 in the car?

 

[QUOTE=Agarwaen;3212578]

QUOTE]

MiamiMan,

(Let me start off by first stating that I am neither a mechanic nor an attorney. I am not well versed in engine repair or engine repair legalese. This is just my personal thoughts...)

I guess that's not the point I was trying to make. If it's a fuel economy thing or even a performance related issue, then you're right - it's not really an issue.

However Knocking (or detonation) is not a desirable thing to have in a closed pressurized space like a cylinder. The effects of knock CAN be benign, but over time CAN also lead to piston or cylinder failure. That's an expensive repair that nobody wants to pay for.

I read the two manuals previously copied into the thread. While one specifically states that 91 octane is "highly recommended" but you "may" use 87, the other one specifically does NOT state that. (Maybe this is a difference of years or models? And unfortunately I do not have a manual of my own yet to consult.)

If and when there is an expensive repair to be made in the future, Mini may claim that by using 87 octane, the owner "did not follow the recommendations put forth by the manufactorer". Note, I am not saying that the owner did something prohibited. Nor am I stating that the car didn't run better or more fuel-effeciently. But there is a big difference between what is "allowable" and what is "recommended". For example, it is "allowable" for one to drive with underinflated tires, but it is not "recommended". In my book, "highly recommended" trumps "allowable" any day. Maybe Mini could comment on why it's recommended if not absolutely necessary.

Again, for me, all of my rambling here is a moot point until somebody has a repair issue with a cracked piston or cylinder failure. And this gets back to my original point. Has anybody actually had a repair issue related to low octane fuel? If so, then that to me is more important than the extra 1/2 MPG some people are saving. Maybe, maybe not for others.

I don't know. Maybe with today's adaptive engines, knocking may not really be an issue anymore. Or then again maybe this only becomes an issue with time say after 90K miles, in which case, Mini doesn't really care since you're well out of the warranty period. (And more than likely the owner has sold the car by then anyway.)

 

Ed,

I just don't understand that one.

I believe most gas tanks are gravity fed so according to your dealers statement, you should be sucking the gas component and not the ethanol component out of the tank in your example above.

The problem with ethanol is that it "absorbs" moisture/water out of the air. Remember that all your gas tanks are vented and open to air. After the water is absorbed, if the gas sits for a while and gets "old" there is a "phase seperation" that occurs when the water and ethanol sink to the bottom of your tank and the gas floats above. The water/ethanol mixture can then get sucked into the engine. Although not actually detrimental to the engine, ethanol/water doesn't burn in a gas engine.

Moreover, ethanol is put into gasoline to increase the octane. If your ethanol has seperated the octane in the remaining gas is now LOWER than before. And ethanol has less calories than gasoline (I can hear you all now - "Hmmm, I'll take a six-pack of that there Mobil Lite please") meaning less energy and less efficiency than pure gasoline. So more ethanol should = less MPG. Alsoi, in the summertime here on the east coast, we have RFG (reformulated gasoline - whatever the heck that is). It supposedly creates less greenhouse gas. It too has fewer calories and = less MPG.

Most people recommend putting gas stabilzers in the fuel creating another whole niche industry to waste my money......

Also, and I've heard it both ways, either 1) always keep your gas tank full to minimize the amount of air in the tank and decrease the air/gasoline interface to minimize water absorbsion, or 2) always keep your tank near empty to decrease the amount of water you can absorb and force you to always fill up frequently with fresh gas agitating the residual old gasoline. This method allows you to add in "new gasoline" or "new octane" and dilute out the old gunk which will be burned through the engine. Option 2 is the preferred method for most of the boaters here in FL. Once the tank is full like in option 1, you can't do anything with it except drain it.

 

This is sitting on the counter at the shop I go to all the time. I asked about it, and he said it came out of a car where someone insisted on running 87 octane in a WRX. Turbocharged cars DO NOT LIKE CHEAP GAS. They can pull timing to prevent detonation, but no system of sensors is perfect. Do it enough, and your rings may decide they want a divorce like those.

 

Long day today. Went to Mini dealership with wife and BMW. Came home with wife and new Countryman S. (She got a better deal trading in the Beemer than trading in me.)

The plot thickens....

Dealer states only 89 octane or better is recommended for the S model.

The sticker on the gas cap states 89 octane or better.

Page 189 of the 2011 Countryman owner's manual states:
"AKI 91 is highly recommended. However you may also use gasoline with less AKI. The minimum AKI rating is:
Cooper S: 89
Cooper:87
If you use gasoline with this minimum AKI rating, the engine may produce knocking sounds when starting at high temperatures. This has no effect on the engine life."
It goes on to note that "Should you encounter drivbility problems which you suspect could be related to the fuel you are using, we recommend that you respond by switching to a recognized high-quality brand such as gasoline that is advertised as Top Tier Detergent Gasoline. Failure to comply with these recommendations may also result in unscheduled maintenance." (do you read that as "at your own cost" too?)

And yes, they still recommend BP fuels!

 

Ronnie is correct here.

And I doubt the rep you spoke to even drives a MINI or read the OM for that matter.

When an engine has "ping or knock", in most cases it's not even audible to the human ear, BUT badly damages your engine just the same.

This is especially important for the Cooper S N14 engines, so use 91 and up.

If by some strange reason you are experiencing better MPG. Could be your DME is registering the lower octane fuel and just dialing back the performance to keep you from damaging your engine as much, thus getting better MPG ?

Lastly. As far as the Mobil gas goes. Currently, E10 fuel is the ONLY Federally approved fuel being sold. While E20 was recently approved I have not seen any pumps indicating it was being sold here yet, and I doubt we will until they have at least one pump at each station selling fuel w/o the "stupid" corn mix

The corn mix is reeking havok with classic cars, older motorcycles, marine, and small engines alike as their rubber components in the fuel systems tend to deteriorate like hell....

 

[QUOTE=-=gRay rAvEn=-;3317299]

And I doubt the rep you spoke to even drives a MINI or read the OM for that matter.

QUOTE]


Actually he drives a 2010 JCW Clubman. He personally uses only 91.

 

[QUOTE=pacemaker;3317481]That being the case then maybe he should preach what he practices......

 

See what I'm talkin about?? Even Mini has no clue what they recommend. In one line they recommend one thing, then in the very next line they recommend the opposite.

"Use top tier fuel"

"Oh..wait... use BP fuel instead...."

"Use 91 octane..."

"Use 89 octane..."

"87 octane is just fine..."

 

It does not "recommend one thing...and then recommend the opposite"....I don't see that anywhere! It says it "highly recommends AKI91"....and that you MAY use less rated octane........to my mind since we've paid a lot for these cars we should stick with what's recommended......

 

Since this thread is about fuel, I thought I'd add it.

2011 Clubman: What is the dot next to the fuel gage for? I couldn't find anything in the manual and it seems to serve no purpose and yet it lights up. Why?

Edit: Nevermind! I found the answer here (reference for full point when gage is low at night).

 

There is a gas station in my hometown. Small town in southern AL. They advertise "No Ethanol". It is also where I fill up my 2 stroke jet boat. 2 stroke boat engines hate ethanol worse than cars do!

 

It can be tricky to find. First off, any of the "top tier" retailers are required to have between 8 and 10% ethanol in all of their gasoline, regardless of grade.

So, your best bet is to look for the Mom & Pop / off-brand gas stations, as they're more likely to have ethanol-free gas.

 

I guess I shouldn't put any of this 100 Low-Lead in then huh.

 

Screw your octane levels. At $9.00 a gallon I fill up with Sunoco 100 octane. Thats were it is at. Feel the power ya.

Nah I have only done that once and it was $7.50 at the time. But seriously why are you arguing about what fuel to put in your MINI. It is your MINI do whatever the hell you want and when it blows up or runs for an eternity then you know if you made the right choice or not. There are a bunch of threads about this same issue and they absolutely go no where everytime. EVERYTIME!!

 

Their language is very vague and I have to wonder why they word it like they do:

Page 189 of the 2011 Countryman owner's manual states:
"AKI 91 is highly recommended. However you may also use gasoline with less AKI. The minimum AKI rating is:
Cooper S: 89
Cooper:87
If you use gasoline with this minimum AKI rating, the engine may produce knocking sounds when starting at high temperatures. This has no effect on the engine life."



If running 87 has no effect on the engine life, it seems to me that they are saying that you can use 87 just fine with no problems whatsoever. To mean that means that using 91 or 93 is pretty much a waste. They are basically recommending using more expensive gas, then saying the car does not need it and not explaining why they recommend the higher octane. Why do they do this?

I don't know. Why do they say to use top tier gas but then turn around and recommend BP which is not a top tier brand? Like I said, even Mini is confused.

 

WOW! This thread has gone on for more than a year and we still can't agree on what the owner's manual suggests or what might be the consequences of not using the "right" gas.

I couldn't possibly add anything to the subject that hasn't been said already, so I will make an observation: We would all be much healthier if we gave half as much attention to what we put into our bodies as compared to what we put into our gas tanks.

Please forgive me for not being more understanding.

 

Right on! Sounds like you understand perfectly.

This thread is reminiscent of many threads that pop up on the few Audio forums I frequent, except there it's whether a set of $500 cables is going to perform better than a $5 set. Or if a $3k turntable really performs better than a $30 one.

Wherever a group of people get together to discuss their passions, these endless, somewhat heated conversations are par for the course.

AFAIC, the manual could not be more clear. You can run 87 octane if you choose and no doubt be happy doing it. And if you're one who can't be happy with 87, then you buy 91 or 93. I fail to see a problem.

 

And if the brand of gas doesn't agree with your car then change brands. If it runs terribly on 87 then mix the gas maybe a mix of 89 and 87 might work.