Go ahead, use regular unleaded fuel - East Coast only?
2nd Gear
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Salt Lake City Utah
Owners manual STATES....
I am doing exactly that, I am following the Owners Manual. See a picture below. [FONT=MiniThesis-Headline][SIZE=3][FONT=MiniThesis-Headline][SIZE=3][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=MiniThesis-Headline][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
Read your manual again I would say that it "recommends" 91 but very specifically states that as low as 87 can be used without harm to the engine. Just as my manual does as seen below. So I wish people would stop saying "My Manual Says 91 and up" I believe this is a is a false statement and needs to be regarded as that.
If in fact your manual does say it "MUST" be 91 and above, Please post a picture of it here so that we can see it. I have looked at manuals for MINI's from 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and all the ones that I have seen state the same thing as seen below from my manual. If it does not state that you MUST use 91 or better please, please. please stop telling others here they should use it.
You also stated that you use Sam's Club 93. Well guess what, I do not see that on the list of Top Tier Gas (http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html). MINI also recommeds using "High Quality Brands" and IMHO Sam's Club is not a High Quality Brand.
Also of note is that gas blends are different for each area of the country depending on temperatures, local ordinances and other factors. So what you use in Daytona Beach Florida is much different than what I get up in Gardner Massachusetts, so in reality there is no real way to compare your experience to mine.
@rkw and NightFlyR use what you want think what you want but for me any old gas will do and we will just have to see what happens in 10 years with our current cars (if you guys keep them that long, mine will have over 200K) and see who's engine is still running and is the cleanest. I have had three other high performance cars and all that use 87 octane, all of the them have gone over 200K miles with one of those with over 400K and I currently also have a BMW that has 90K+ on it all on 87 octane. None of these cars have ever had any engine work done to them.
Now this can be debated all day but "I know what I am doing is the best for my car" and "it may not be right for anyone else's car".
What really displeases me though is those people that use the phrase "You Must Use 91 Octane" or something similar. As can be seen from the page in my Owners Manual that they "Recommend" but do not "mandate" the use of 91 octane.
And when and only when someone can prove to me with out a hint of doubt that 91 octane from a Top Tier station will save my car from total disaster will I change my ways. But the chances of that happening are something like 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1.
[SIZE=3][FONT=MiniThesis-Headline][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
Read your manual again I would say that it "recommends" 91 but very specifically states that as low as 87 can be used without harm to the engine. Just as my manual does as seen below. So I wish people would stop saying "My Manual Says 91 and up" I believe this is a is a false statement and needs to be regarded as that.
If in fact your manual does say it "MUST" be 91 and above, Please post a picture of it here so that we can see it. I have looked at manuals for MINI's from 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and all the ones that I have seen state the same thing as seen below from my manual. If it does not state that you MUST use 91 or better please, please. please stop telling others here they should use it.
You also stated that you use Sam's Club 93. Well guess what, I do not see that on the list of Top Tier Gas (http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html). MINI also recommeds using "High Quality Brands" and IMHO Sam's Club is not a High Quality Brand.
Also of note is that gas blends are different for each area of the country depending on temperatures, local ordinances and other factors. So what you use in Daytona Beach Florida is much different than what I get up in Gardner Massachusetts, so in reality there is no real way to compare your experience to mine.
@rkw and NightFlyR use what you want think what you want but for me any old gas will do and we will just have to see what happens in 10 years with our current cars (if you guys keep them that long, mine will have over 200K) and see who's engine is still running and is the cleanest. I have had three other high performance cars and all that use 87 octane, all of the them have gone over 200K miles with one of those with over 400K and I currently also have a BMW that has 90K+ on it all on 87 octane. None of these cars have ever had any engine work done to them.
Now this can be debated all day but "I know what I am doing is the best for my car" and "it may not be right for anyone else's car".
What really displeases me though is those people that use the phrase "You Must Use 91 Octane" or something similar. As can be seen from the page in my Owners Manual that they "Recommend" but do not "mandate" the use of 91 octane.
And when and only when someone can prove to me with out a hint of doubt that 91 octane from a Top Tier station will save my car from total disaster will I change my ways. But the chances of that happening are something like 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1.
FUEL SPECIFICATIONS ANTILOCK BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS)
The engine uses lead-free gasoline only.
Required fuel:The engine uses lead-free gasoline only.
Premium Unleaded Gasoline,
min. 91 AKI. AKI = Anti Knock Index.
oxygen sensor and the catalytic converter.Do not use leaded fuels. The use of
leaded fuels will cause permanent
damage to the emissions-control system'sleaded fuels will cause permanent
This is a copy and paste from my Owners manual, page 83, and it states Required fuel....
Found a typo also, "Do not drive untill tank is totally EMPTY otherwise engine opperations are not guaranteed and damage could occure.
Last edited by Namikuz; Feb 17, 2011 at 01:26 AM. Reason: info
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
schatzy62
It doesn't say "recommands", it says "HIGHLY RECOMMANDS" and I will repeat, that if a employee at the company where I work failed to follow a mfgs highly recommanded maintance procedure, he/she would be fired.
It doesn't say "recommands", it says "HIGHLY RECOMMANDS" and I will repeat, that if a employee at the company where I work failed to follow a mfgs highly recommanded maintance procedure, he/she would be fired.
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,334
Likes: 4
From: Vancouver Island, Canada
It's only a few bucks a fillup, so I run 91, or if I am near the few stations that carry it, 94. My gas cap says minimum 91. I don't make a ton of money, but I have a hard time with the "I can't afford premium" arguments from people with pricey new premium vehicles 
Of course, what we all put in our cars is our decision. For me it's worth a few bucks to play it safe.
Of course, what we all put in our cars is our decision. For me it's worth a few bucks to play it safe.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
For the record, my MA told me that running regular 87 octane won't hurt the motor and you can use it, but don't switch back and forth between that and premium 91 or 93. Stick with one or the other. The computer doesn't like it and won't be giving reliable numbers, etc. if random tanks of premium show up with regular or vice-versa.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
For the record, my MA told me that running regular 87 octane won't hurt the motor and you can use it, but don't switch back and forth between that and premium 91 or 93. Stick with one or the other. The computer doesn't like it and won't be giving reliable numbers, etc. if random tanks of premium show up with regular or vice-versa.
While the MINI's ECU *is* "adaptive" (adjusting the fuel mixture and ignition timing to account for things like ambient temperature, fuel octane, oxygen sensor values, atmospheric pressure, etcetera), I don't believe that it actually records those parameters for more than a few seconds, or possibly until the engine is turned off. As such, you're not going to "confuse" the ECU by alternating fuel grades at each fill-up, because the ECU isn't going to "remember" what was in the tank last time.
Think about it - what possible use could the ECU have for knowing what the temperature was last month, or what kind of fuel you had in the tank three fill-ups ago? The ECU simply takes a bunch of current sensor data, calculates the optimum engine control parameters *at that particular instant*, and then repeats the process continually.
People confuse "adaptive" with "learning", but the ECU isn't really "learning" anything at all - it's just responding to the current conditions and trying to make the best choices possible for the engine.
3rd Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 290
Likes: 2
From: Houston, TX
My hubby said if he knew that the higher number *is required* before we ordered, he never would have agreed on a MINI. He wanted me to get a Ford Focus or Fusion. I have never used anything other than the minimum, my father always said that using the higher numbers did not have any impact...but he is a cheapskate. :P I have a 2001 VW Jetta that is working wonderfully and has only had 87 in it for it's entire life.
Also in NJ the price difference between the lower and higher numbers is fairly large. Nearly $1 a gallon at some places...I won't be doing any long distance driving...I sincerely doubt, with the driving I'll be doing (14 mile commute on average) will make any difference.
Also in NJ the price difference between the lower and higher numbers is fairly large. Nearly $1 a gallon at some places...I won't be doing any long distance driving...I sincerely doubt, with the driving I'll be doing (14 mile commute on average) will make any difference.
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Bridgeport CT.
I'll just add that I tried 87 on my '08 MCS for a month and noticed that I lost about 3 MPG as a result. That was when the car was new and prices were still rather high. I did the math and realized that it actually does NOT cost more to run on 93 (which is what the premium rating is around me). In fact, at current price levels (about $0.20/gal difference) it is actually more cost effective to use premium. I've used 93 ever since.
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 754
Likes: 1
From: Bucks County PA
What gas to use
My research and inquiries found the following. You can use 87 octane on a non S MINI. But be careful!!! when the temperature gets into the 90's you must use a higher grade or else the engine will knock. S models require a minimum of 89 octane. My understanding is that this is for 2010 models and newer. As far as quality gasoline, you don't know where it is coming from. You could go into a Mobil, Sunoco or Shell and they all get a good portion of their gasoline from the same unmarked tanker. As far as ethanol free, that is exceedingly difficult to find.
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 353
Likes: 1
Regarding ethanol-free gas, here's my favorite resource for locating stations that sell it. http://pure-gas.org/
4th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 435
Likes: 1
From: ~PHX
My car was just ordered, so I have zero first-hand experience with MINIs and their fuel requirements. However, I order each of you to send me first class in a straightjacket to the funny farm if I, even for one second, consider putting regular in my baby!
Not using premium in a MINI is such an absurd concept, that it blows me away that there is even one thread on the subject, let alone an equine-flogging list of them.
j
Not using premium in a MINI is such an absurd concept, that it blows me away that there is even one thread on the subject, let alone an equine-flogging list of them.
j
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Boulder Colorado
I live at 5200 feet and smack dab against the mountains. for my first tank on my used car i got regular gas (87)drove into the mountains and my knock sensor went off almost immediately.
I've tried using an additive but since i started the car has been farting alot. (i'm probably doing it wrong but it also leaked all over my trunk so no good for me)
with 91 i went from 27.3 mpg (with conservation effort using 87) to 28.3 (driving any which way) 13 gallon tank 13 miles further = about 1/2 a gallon of gas
with the cost difference being about the equivalent of 1 gallon of gas
so it is costing me a 1/2 gallon of gas to run with 91.
i figure i spent 17k for the car i can suck up a couple of dollars a tank for the ideal gas and avoiding possible carbon build up in the engine from the gas igniting in the cylinders more than once.
Car talk says that the computers in modern cars can (probably) adjust the engine pressure to correct for the low ignition point of lower octane gas... but these were my reasons for using higher octane gas and it may just be the altitude
I've tried using an additive but since i started the car has been farting alot. (i'm probably doing it wrong but it also leaked all over my trunk so no good for me)
with 91 i went from 27.3 mpg (with conservation effort using 87) to 28.3 (driving any which way) 13 gallon tank 13 miles further = about 1/2 a gallon of gas
with the cost difference being about the equivalent of 1 gallon of gas
so it is costing me a 1/2 gallon of gas to run with 91.
i figure i spent 17k for the car i can suck up a couple of dollars a tank for the ideal gas and avoiding possible carbon build up in the engine from the gas igniting in the cylinders more than once.
Car talk says that the computers in modern cars can (probably) adjust the engine pressure to correct for the low ignition point of lower octane gas... but these were my reasons for using higher octane gas and it may just be the altitude
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: NYC
I've been using nothing but 93 in my 2010 S since I got it, mostly at Mobil/BP/Shell, a few times at Citgo out of need.
Unfortunately seeing as the price has not dropped, it's currently 4.23/gallon for 93 here in NYC, and probably higher, the stations near me are around about 4.20 average. It's just getting too expensive. I may have to switch to 91 and drop 20 cents a gallon to shave off the extra savings. In the end, it's not that much of a difference though. On the fence, despite the "87 is okay" rumors.
Unfortunately seeing as the price has not dropped, it's currently 4.23/gallon for 93 here in NYC, and probably higher, the stations near me are around about 4.20 average. It's just getting too expensive. I may have to switch to 91 and drop 20 cents a gallon to shave off the extra savings. In the end, it's not that much of a difference though. On the fence, despite the "87 is okay" rumors.
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
From: Hell
I've been using nothing but 93 in my 2010 S since I got it, mostly at Mobil/BP/Shell, a few times at Citgo out of need.
Unfortunately seeing as the price has not dropped, it's currently 4.23/gallon for 93 here in NYC, and probably higher, the stations near me are around about 4.20 average. It's just getting too expensive.
I may switch to 91 and drop 20 cents a gallon to shave off the extra savings. In the end, it's not that much of a difference though. On the fence, despite the "87 is okay" rumors.
Unfortunately seeing as the price has not dropped, it's currently 4.23/gallon for 93 here in NYC, and probably higher, the stations near me are around about 4.20 average. It's just getting too expensive.
I may switch to 91 and drop 20 cents a gallon to shave off the extra savings. In the end, it's not that much of a difference though. On the fence, despite the "87 is okay" rumors.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,390
Likes: 3
From: Daytona Beach, Florida
Wow,-Save .20 cents per gallon.
That would save you at least $2.60 on a tankfull if you actually took 13 gallons at a fillup.
I'm almost certain you will get lousy MPG after going to regular gas. That should eat up some of your savings.
I sure won't switch from hi-test unless I can save at least $1.00 a gallon or more.
I'm almost certain you will get lousy MPG after going to regular gas. That should eat up some of your savings.
I sure won't switch from hi-test unless I can save at least $1.00 a gallon or more.
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
From: Western NC
Can you tell us about your experience with the, "knock sensor went off almost immediately"? This is something I haven't heard of. Does your car have a display in the instrument panel for this or is there an alarm that sounds?
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Boulder Colorado
my car is also first gen and i am at altitude but the car noticed i cheated on the gas
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 754
Likes: 1
From: Bucks County PA
Gasoline Octane
The decision as two what octane to use should be maiade using all of the information available.
1. what type of driving do you do? (city vs Highway)
2. What are the minimum octane requirements.
3. Where do you live (mountainous area vs flat land) is engine under strain.(going up those mountains)
Many years ago I worked for MB and we had an employee lease program we asked about what octane gas needs to be used They emphatically stated that if there is mostly highway driving then you can use 89 octane, if not then you need to follow the requirements in the book.
1. what type of driving do you do? (city vs Highway)
2. What are the minimum octane requirements.
3. Where do you live (mountainous area vs flat land) is engine under strain.(going up those mountains)
Many years ago I worked for MB and we had an employee lease program we asked about what octane gas needs to be used They emphatically stated that if there is mostly highway driving then you can use 89 octane, if not then you need to follow the requirements in the book.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
The decision as two what octane to use should be maiade using all of the information available.
1. what type of driving do you do? (city vs Highway)
2. What are the minimum octane requirements.
3. Where do you live (mountainous area vs flat land) is engine under strain.(going up those mountains)
Many years ago I worked for MB and we had an employee lease program we asked about what octane gas needs to be used They emphatically stated that if there is mostly highway driving then you can use 89 octane, if not then you need to follow the requirements in the book.
1. what type of driving do you do? (city vs Highway)
2. What are the minimum octane requirements.
3. Where do you live (mountainous area vs flat land) is engine under strain.(going up those mountains)
Many years ago I worked for MB and we had an employee lease program we asked about what octane gas needs to be used They emphatically stated that if there is mostly highway driving then you can use 89 octane, if not then you need to follow the requirements in the book.
93 octane - 29.7 MPG
87 octane - 30.9 MPG
93 octane - 29.7 MPG
87 octane - 28.3 MPG
91 octane - 28.3 MPG
86 octane - 29.4 MPG
91 octane - 29.0 MPG
87 octane - 31.3 MPG
Of course, there were temperature, speed, and altitude changes during the trip, but I couldn't log everything.
Highway droning, even in the heat of the summer, just doesn't put much of a load on the engine. Boost stays low, as well as the dynamic compression, so there's nothing to cause pinging, even with the lower grades of gas.
For around-town driving, I stick with 93 AKI, but if I go on another long trip and know that I'm going to spend the next 350 miles just cruising down the highway to the next gas stop, I'd have no problem using a lower grade.
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 336
Likes: 8
From: Falls Church, VA
That matches with my experience during a cross-country drive from Virginia to California a few years ago. Each fill-up, I alternated between the highest octane I could get and the lowest, purposely running the tank almost empty between fill-ups so as to minimize mixing of the different grades of gas. As a result, I ended up running everything between 93 AKI and 86 AKI during the trip. Drivability stayed the same throughout, and fuel economy didn't really correlate with octane rating: (notice that both the "best" and "worst" tanks were with 87 AKI)
93 octane - 29.7 MPG
87 octane - 30.9 MPG
93 octane - 29.7 MPG
87 octane - 28.3 MPG
91 octane - 28.3 MPG
86 octane - 29.4 MPG
91 octane - 29.0 MPG
87 octane - 31.3 MPG
Of course, there were temperature, speed, and altitude changes during the trip, but I couldn't log everything.
Highway droning, even in the heat of the summer, just doesn't put much of a load on the engine. Boost stays low, as well as the dynamic compression, so there's nothing to cause pinging, even with the lower grades of gas.
For around-town driving, I stick with 93 AKI, but if I go on another long trip and know that I'm going to spend the next 350 miles just cruising down the highway to the next gas stop, I'd have no problem using a lower grade.
93 octane - 29.7 MPG
87 octane - 30.9 MPG
93 octane - 29.7 MPG
87 octane - 28.3 MPG
91 octane - 28.3 MPG
86 octane - 29.4 MPG
91 octane - 29.0 MPG
87 octane - 31.3 MPG
Of course, there were temperature, speed, and altitude changes during the trip, but I couldn't log everything.
Highway droning, even in the heat of the summer, just doesn't put much of a load on the engine. Boost stays low, as well as the dynamic compression, so there's nothing to cause pinging, even with the lower grades of gas.
For around-town driving, I stick with 93 AKI, but if I go on another long trip and know that I'm going to spend the next 350 miles just cruising down the highway to the next gas stop, I'd have no problem using a lower grade.
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 483
Likes: 2
From: Miami, FL
These discussions are always fun.
While I can understand the need for higher octane in the S models, it's a waste in the regular Mini.
I've done some of my own very unscientific tests to see what octane gives me the best MPG and perceived performance and I found that if anything, I got slightly better mpg using 87 and I noticed no knocking or any kind of performance issues, and that's driving in Miami temperatures which are up in the 90s lately.
Also, you want to talk about confusion? Even Mini is confused. My owner's manual states a couple of things ----- it says that 91 is recommended but that 87 will not harm the engine at all. But, my gas cap says 89.
Also, my owner's manual states that I should use top-tier gas brands. Then right below that it says "Mini recommends using BP brand." But.............. BP is not a top-tier brand.
Bottom line, not even Mini knows wtf they're talking about. I think the regular Mini will run just fine on 87 and the S on 89. Although personally I would hesitate to use gas from no-name stations, but that's just me and it's probably more psychological than anything.
While I can understand the need for higher octane in the S models, it's a waste in the regular Mini.
I've done some of my own very unscientific tests to see what octane gives me the best MPG and perceived performance and I found that if anything, I got slightly better mpg using 87 and I noticed no knocking or any kind of performance issues, and that's driving in Miami temperatures which are up in the 90s lately.
Also, you want to talk about confusion? Even Mini is confused. My owner's manual states a couple of things ----- it says that 91 is recommended but that 87 will not harm the engine at all. But, my gas cap says 89.
Also, my owner's manual states that I should use top-tier gas brands. Then right below that it says "Mini recommends using BP brand." But.............. BP is not a top-tier brand.
Bottom line, not even Mini knows wtf they're talking about. I think the regular Mini will run just fine on 87 and the S on 89. Although personally I would hesitate to use gas from no-name stations, but that's just me and it's probably more psychological than anything.
Neutral
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Southern Maine
ethanol is my problem
I would love to buy fuel without ethanol, but in Southern Maine, it isn't going to happen. That is one reason my dealer recommended NOT buying Premium gas, it sits in the dealer tank longer (inventory doesn't turn as fast) and the gas and ethanol start to separate, ethanol rises, you can get a richer ethanol mixture than the label on the pump. The car dealers all tell me drop it down to regular, the computer will adjust, just don't bounce back and forth. I tried 87, my '03 Cooper didn't like it, but it seems to like 89 octane just fine, after years of 91 octane. So I am buying 89, not to save money, but to avoid the ethanol ratio rising. I dread the day the 15% requirement comes in.
As you can see, my big beef is ethanol, I have had to replace my fuel pump, and I suspect ethanol as a contributing factor...blind unreasoning prejudice on my part, but local boat owners were having trouble with their fibreglass fuel tanks melting, and I don't like the way the stuff smells anyway. However, I might as well bay at the moon, the ethanol subsidy isn' t going away anytime soon.
As you can see, my big beef is ethanol, I have had to replace my fuel pump, and I suspect ethanol as a contributing factor...blind unreasoning prejudice on my part, but local boat owners were having trouble with their fibreglass fuel tanks melting, and I don't like the way the stuff smells anyway. However, I might as well bay at the moon, the ethanol subsidy isn' t going away anytime soon.