Go ahead, use regular unleaded fuel - East Coast only?
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 405
Likes: 1
Check out this website: http://pure-gas.org
Its got lists of all publicly known ethanol free stations. The local station I use is a "mom and pop" type that is still a full service station! They've been in business all my life, and have always had no Ethanol. There are about 4 here in town without ethanol.
Its got lists of all publicly known ethanol free stations. The local station I use is a "mom and pop" type that is still a full service station! They've been in business all my life, and have always had no Ethanol. There are about 4 here in town without ethanol.
I also notice my car runs smoother and a little more power. With almost 7000 miles since my last oil change my oil is a heck of a lot cleaner not black like it was. And the government wants to raise the ethanol to 15%. Wow
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: Barnwell, SC
You CAN use 87 octane, but the computer will retard the timing to compensate for the lower octane resulting in poorer gas mileage and slower performance. I can't understand why someone would want to do that. If 87 octane is a must, perhaps a new Civic is a better choice.
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,466
Likes: 2
From: Savannah Georgia
Out of my 2011 manual. I would post pic but am having technical difficulties.
Required fuel
Super Premium gasoline/AKI 91
This gasoline is highly recommended.
However, you may also use gasoline with less AKI. The minimum AKI Rating is:
> Cooper S, John Cooper Works: 89
> Cooper: 87
If you use gasoline with this minimum AKI Rat- ing, the engine may produce knocking sounds when starting at high outside temperatures. This has no effect on the engine life.
Required fuel
Super Premium gasoline/AKI 91
This gasoline is highly recommended.
However, you may also use gasoline with less AKI. The minimum AKI Rating is:
> Cooper S, John Cooper Works: 89
> Cooper: 87
If you use gasoline with this minimum AKI Rat- ing, the engine may produce knocking sounds when starting at high outside temperatures. This has no effect on the engine life.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
You CAN use 87 octane, but the computer will retard the timing to compensate for the lower octane resulting in poorer gas mileage and slower performance. I can't understand why someone would want to do that. If 87 octane is a must, perhaps a new Civic is a better choice.
Also in NJ the price difference between the lower and higher numbers is fairly large. Nearly $1 a gallon at some places...I won't be doing any long distance driving...I sincerely doubt, with the driving I'll be doing (14 mile commute on average) will make any difference.
My hubby said if he knew that the higher number *is required* before we ordered, he never would have agreed on a MINI. He wanted me to get a Ford Focus or Fusion. I have never used anything other than the minimum, my father always said that using the higher numbers did not have any impact...but he is a cheapskate. :P I have a 2001 VW Jetta that is working wonderfully and has only had 87 in it for it's entire life.
Also in NJ the price difference between the lower and higher numbers is fairly large. Nearly $1 a gallon at some places...I won't be doing any long distance driving...I sincerely doubt, with the driving I'll be doing (14 mile commute on average) will make any difference.
Also in NJ the price difference between the lower and higher numbers is fairly large. Nearly $1 a gallon at some places...I won't be doing any long distance driving...I sincerely doubt, with the driving I'll be doing (14 mile commute on average) will make any difference.
Higher grade gas is required for higher performance engines and older cars that have engine ping problems.
Try www.gasbuddy.com to find the cheapest 91 octane. I don't understand how you are seeing a dollar difference in price though. The most expensive gas station in NJ is 3.99 for 87 and 4.19 for 91. Don't you have Wawa in your area as well? Wawa sells good gas super cheap.
Last edited by Neufusion; Feb 11, 2011 at 08:27 PM.
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 353
Likes: 1
My hubby said if he knew that the higher number *is required* before we ordered, he never would have agreed on a MINI. He wanted me to get a Ford Focus or Fusion. I have never used anything other than the minimum, my father always said that using the higher numbers did not have any impact...but he is a cheapskate. :P I have a 2001 VW Jetta that is working wonderfully and has only had 87 in it for it's entire life.
Also in NJ the price difference between the lower and higher numbers is fairly large. Nearly $1 a gallon at some places...I won't be doing any long distance driving...I sincerely doubt, with the driving I'll be doing (14 mile commute on average) will make any difference.
Also in NJ the price difference between the lower and higher numbers is fairly large. Nearly $1 a gallon at some places...I won't be doing any long distance driving...I sincerely doubt, with the driving I'll be doing (14 mile commute on average) will make any difference.
I'm thankful that down here in the South the difference between regular and premium is rarely more than 30 cents! $1/gallon is a big difference!
But looking on the bright side... if your commute is that short, you won't be using that much gas, and if you factor in that you should get slightly better mileage with the higher grade gas, it won't be horribly costly.
I did some quick calculations, assuming 10% better mileage with the more expensive gas, and driving 12,000 miles/yr and with a worst-case price difference of $1/gallon, it will cost you about $10-$12/week more to use premium gas. If the difference averages $.75/gallon, you're looking at about $8-$10/week more. If it can be kept at $.50/gallon difference, you'd be around $7-$8/week more. Monthly difference - $30-$50.
So yes, it will likely be more expensive than running regular, but the car will run noticeably better and get better mileage.
I've had more cars that recommended premium gas, than not, and when I've tried to save a few bucks, I felt it. So... it's the price I pay for the cars I drive.
While your father and mine may have been right when they said that no car needed premium gas, today's engines are MUCH more sophisticated and we pay a price for that sophistication.
Hopefully it won't be a bad price to pay for your driving pleasure, seated behind the wheel of your MINI! Yes, I am sometimes painfully optimistic.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
A focus or fusion would have been a more economical choice. I thought the only reason people buy MINIs is because they like to drive and are willing to pay the price.
Higher grade gas is required for higher performance engines and older cars that have engine ping problems.
Try www.gasbuddy.com to find the cheapest 91 octane. I don't understand how you are seeing a dollar difference in price though. The most expensive gas station in NJ is 3.99 for 87 and 4.19 for 91. Don't you have Wawa in your area as well? Wawa sells good gas super cheap.
Higher grade gas is required for higher performance engines and older cars that have engine ping problems.
Try www.gasbuddy.com to find the cheapest 91 octane. I don't understand how you are seeing a dollar difference in price though. The most expensive gas station in NJ is 3.99 for 87 and 4.19 for 91. Don't you have Wawa in your area as well? Wawa sells good gas super cheap.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
My previous car (Infiniti G35) was a relatively high performance car, and required 93 octane. I am used to paying the price for premium fuel, so it was not an issue to me. But i am so happy that with my increased gas mileage, I don't need to refuel as much and I save money now!
While I was driving my old car, prior to getting my MINI, my G35 had a terrible knocking in the engine when we were on a trip out of town. The knocking wound up being related to oil being super low, and had nothing to do with fuel (the engine started burning it suddenly and the car's OBC failed to issue the warning signal), but that sound was so scary that I knew I never wanted to hear that again. Now that I have my MINI, I follow the maintenance manual's suggestions to the letter!
While I was driving my old car, prior to getting my MINI, my G35 had a terrible knocking in the engine when we were on a trip out of town. The knocking wound up being related to oil being super low, and had nothing to do with fuel (the engine started burning it suddenly and the car's OBC failed to issue the warning signal), but that sound was so scary that I knew I never wanted to hear that again. Now that I have my MINI, I follow the maintenance manual's suggestions to the letter!
5th Gear
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
Check out this website: http://pure-gas.org
Its got lists of all publicly known ethanol free stations. The local station I use is a "mom and pop" type that is still a full service station! They've been in business all my life, and have always had no Ethanol. There are about 4 here in town without ethanol.
Its got lists of all publicly known ethanol free stations. The local station I use is a "mom and pop" type that is still a full service station! They've been in business all my life, and have always had no Ethanol. There are about 4 here in town without ethanol.
thanks. neat posting, but too bad there are none near me.
Gasbuddy.com they have iPhone and Android apps as well.
...Also in NJ the price difference between the lower and higher numbers is fairly large. Nearly $1 a gallon at some places...I won't be doing any long distance driving...I sincerely doubt, with the driving I'll be doing (14 mile commute on average) will make any difference.
What is an example of the price/grade there?
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 266
Likes: 4
From: New Brunswick, Canada
I'm another one that has used all 3 (87, 89 and 91) it worked like crap with both 87 and 89. Put 91 in it and it works great.
Harley's are the same way. Most harley's run on 91, bu every once in awhile you will get a guy who tells you how well his bike ran on 87. I figured what harm could it do, so I ran a tank of 87 through it. I was never so glad to get rid of a tank of gas in my life, that bike shook, it sputtered and the mileage was terrible........I never made that mistake again.
Harley's are the same way. Most harley's run on 91, bu every once in awhile you will get a guy who tells you how well his bike ran on 87. I figured what harm could it do, so I ran a tank of 87 through it. I was never so glad to get rid of a tank of gas in my life, that bike shook, it sputtered and the mileage was terrible........I never made that mistake again.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 336
Likes: 1
From: South Jersey
yeah us ether in this tree hugging state called NJ
I would be willing to cross the line and go over to Pennsylvania to get non ethanol fuel but the closest station is 225 miles from me
I would be willing to cross the line and go over to Pennsylvania to get non ethanol fuel but the closest station is 225 miles from me
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
From: San Jose
opinions are like ______, everyone's got one, and sometimes they stink.
With that said; I live in the SF bay area which is pretty dang expensive to start with. Our options out here are 87, 89, and 91 and the prices are typically 87=x, 89=x+$.10, and 91=x+$.20.
The most gas I've stuffed into my Mini is like 13+ gallons, so worst case scenario I spend 13+ gallons x $.20 per gallon= about $2.60 per tank full more than 87 octane gas.
If the manual and the manufacturer "Highly recommend" 91 octane fuel, I think I can spend an additional $2.60 per 350 miles to keep them off my back should a warranty issue arise.
From wiki-
So this makes me think that the earlier cars were designed in germany/britain to European specifications with compression ratios, air/fuel mixtures and the like which is why they HIGHLY RECOMMEND (require) 91 AKI in the US cars.
With that said; I live in the SF bay area which is pretty dang expensive to start with. Our options out here are 87, 89, and 91 and the prices are typically 87=x, 89=x+$.10, and 91=x+$.20.
The most gas I've stuffed into my Mini is like 13+ gallons, so worst case scenario I spend 13+ gallons x $.20 per gallon= about $2.60 per tank full more than 87 octane gas.
If the manual and the manufacturer "Highly recommend" 91 octane fuel, I think I can spend an additional $2.60 per 350 miles to keep them off my back should a warranty issue arise.
From wiki-
In most countries, including Australia and all of those in Europe, the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States and some other countries, like Brazil, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI, and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Road Octane Number (RdON) or Pump Octane Number (PON).
Difference between RON and AKI
Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane rating shown in the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the rating shown elsewhere in the world for the same fuel. See the table in the following section for a comparison.
......
However, burning fuel with a lower octane rating than required by the engine often reduces power output and efficiency one way or another. If the engine begins to detonate, that reduces power and efficiency for the reasons stated above. Many modern car engines feature a knock sensor – a small piezoelectric microphone which detects knock, and then sends a signal to the engine control unit to retard the ignition timing. Retarding the ignition timing reduces the tendency to detonate, but also reduces power output and fuel efficiency. Because of these systems, under certain conditons of high load and high temperature, a given car may produce more power with a higher octane fuel. With a lower octane fuel, these engines systems will be reducing power to control detonation, while with a higher octane fuel, the engine will produce full power. And some modern high performance engines are actually optimized for higher than pump premium (93 AKI in the US). The 2001 - 2007 BMW M3 with the S54 engine is one such car. Car and Driver magazine dyno tested a car and found that the power output increased as the AKI was increased up to approximately 96 AKI. Also, these systems can result in higher fuel mileage for cars designed for the higher octane fuels.
However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90–91 US AKI=(R+M)/2, and deliver 98, 99 or 100 (RON) (93-94 AKI) labeled as Super Unleaded - thus regular petrol sold in much of Europe corresponds to premium sold in the United States.
Difference between RON and AKI
Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane rating shown in the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the rating shown elsewhere in the world for the same fuel. See the table in the following section for a comparison.
......
However, burning fuel with a lower octane rating than required by the engine often reduces power output and efficiency one way or another. If the engine begins to detonate, that reduces power and efficiency for the reasons stated above. Many modern car engines feature a knock sensor – a small piezoelectric microphone which detects knock, and then sends a signal to the engine control unit to retard the ignition timing. Retarding the ignition timing reduces the tendency to detonate, but also reduces power output and fuel efficiency. Because of these systems, under certain conditons of high load and high temperature, a given car may produce more power with a higher octane fuel. With a lower octane fuel, these engines systems will be reducing power to control detonation, while with a higher octane fuel, the engine will produce full power. And some modern high performance engines are actually optimized for higher than pump premium (93 AKI in the US). The 2001 - 2007 BMW M3 with the S54 engine is one such car. Car and Driver magazine dyno tested a car and found that the power output increased as the AKI was increased up to approximately 96 AKI. Also, these systems can result in higher fuel mileage for cars designed for the higher octane fuels.
However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90–91 US AKI=(R+M)/2, and deliver 98, 99 or 100 (RON) (93-94 AKI) labeled as Super Unleaded - thus regular petrol sold in much of Europe corresponds to premium sold in the United States.
Last edited by Nick5811; Feb 11, 2011 at 10:59 PM.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
I work for a large utility that operates several Nuclear Power Plants. Would you all feel comfortable with the maintenance folks at those plants ignoring a a valve or pump Mfgs "Highly recommanded advice"??????? Let me tell you, a employee that ignored that advice would be fired, damn quick.
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: Barnwell, SC
I remember a lady pulled up to the pump next to me in her Mini and started pumping 87 octane while I was filling mine with 93. I asked her if she knew that the recommended octane is 91 or better. She said she knew that but she didn't want to pay the 20 cents per gallon extra. She was also enjoying a $4 Starbucks grande (latte I think). I guess it comes down to one's priorities!
2nd Gear
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 73
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That $4 grande latte adds like 30+ some horsepower to the MINI. It has been dubbed the miracle fuel.
You add it to the cup holder when you want the extra boost. As it spills due to the lack of proper cup holder design it seeps into the transmission lines. Then it is pumped to the engine by specialized nanobots strait into the cylinders where it rejuvenates whole car to factory spec. I am told you merely have to put water in the fuel tank after that and it runs like a lambo on rocket fuel.
I don't want to get a ticket so I personally have not tried it. I'm ok with 93 for now.
You add it to the cup holder when you want the extra boost. As it spills due to the lack of proper cup holder design it seeps into the transmission lines. Then it is pumped to the engine by specialized nanobots strait into the cylinders where it rejuvenates whole car to factory spec. I am told you merely have to put water in the fuel tank after that and it runs like a lambo on rocket fuel.
I don't want to get a ticket so I personally have not tried it. I'm ok with 93 for now.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
The only time I might not use premium is if I know I'm going to spend the entire tank just droning down the interstate (like a cross-country trip).
Going back-and-forth between California and Virginia, I've filled up with everything from 86 AKI to 94 AKI, and it doesn't seem to make a difference in my highway fuel economy either way. And since it's all part-throttle, low-boost/high vacuum operation, compression-related pinging is never an issue.
Going back-and-forth between California and Virginia, I've filled up with everything from 86 AKI to 94 AKI, and it doesn't seem to make a difference in my highway fuel economy either way. And since it's all part-throttle, low-boost/high vacuum operation, compression-related pinging is never an issue.
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
From: Hell
My hubby said if he knew that the higher number *is required* before we ordered, he never would have agreed on a MINI. He wanted me to get a Ford Focus or Fusion. I have never used anything other than the minimum, my father always said that using the higher numbers did not have any impact...but he is a cheapskate. :P I have a 2001 VW Jetta that is working wonderfully and has only had 87 in it for it's entire life.
Also in NJ the price difference between the lower and higher numbers is fairly large. Nearly $1 a gallon at some places...I won't be doing any long distance driving...I sincerely doubt, with the driving I'll be doing (14 mile commute on average) will make any difference.
Also in NJ the price difference between the lower and higher numbers is fairly large. Nearly $1 a gallon at some places...I won't be doing any long distance driving...I sincerely doubt, with the driving I'll be doing (14 mile commute on average) will make any difference.
I'm not sure where you are in NJ but I have not seen a dollar's difference between regular and premium. I fill up in NJ myself because I live in NY but prices here are just out of control. If you like, let's PM and see where we can find you something affordable near you.
FWIW, I also didn't realize it needed at least 91 before I ordered.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 336
Likes: 1
From: South Jersey
SMG,
I'm not sure where you are in NJ but I have not seen a dollar's difference between regular and premium. I fill up in NJ myself because I live in NY but prices here are just out of control. If you like, let's PM and see where we can find you something affordable near you.
FWIW, I also didn't realize it needed at least 91 before I ordered.
I'm not sure where you are in NJ but I have not seen a dollar's difference between regular and premium. I fill up in NJ myself because I live in NY but prices here are just out of control. If you like, let's PM and see where we can find you something affordable near you.
FWIW, I also didn't realize it needed at least 91 before I ordered.
the most I saw while around cherryhill/marlton/mt laurel was 3.48 a gallon, wawa has premium for $3.24. ill admit if your not looking for ultra/premium the prices do seem alot higher. Maybe the gas station thats $1 more is way off the beaten path and rip customers off
5th Gear
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
Gasbuddy.com they have iPhone and Android apps as well.
5th Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
I have always run 95 aki in mine until my station stopped carrying it. I filled up with 91aki and gained 3-4 mpg. The car also feels more responsive now.
I will use 91aki only now. About 60k miles of wasted money..
I will use 91aki only now. About 60k miles of wasted money..
As I stated in an earlier post I use nothing but 93. yesterday I changed out the spark plugs for the first time with 91K on them. No carbon build up, and they werevery clean. I also sent my oil to Blackstone and it came back well with in all engine tolerances, and they told me I could go 10K on an oil change, which of course I never do. Bottom line for me, I still run nothing but 93, has it helped the engine, the plugs or the oil, truth is I dont know, but the car runs great and why change what I have been using to save a few pennies.
