Hi since winter is just around the corner, would anyone want to share their technique when driving in the snow?

I have a mini with DSC + manual transmission + snow tire myself.

And I have done a bit of research on my own.

However I found some contradi'cting statement and don't know which is correct.

Let me list the tips that I have found.


a) Start off with 2nd gear because lower torque will give more traction

b) When stopping, down shift so we don't have to brake and thus avoid lose of traction

c) Here is the contradicting statement I found.

One person claims its better to keep the car at lower gear than usual because more torque = more control is always better

Another person claims its better to keep the car at higher gear than usual because lower torque means more traction

anyone know which person is correct?


d) In a turn, since we are driving a FWD, if our car understeers, we should never let go of the gas, instead we should do the opposite and give it more gas.

Or we could press the clutch (and/or press the brake a little) and our car should straighten out.

I sort of understand the giving it more gas part, But I don't understand how pressing the clutch will help our car straighten out.

isn't pressing the clutch = let go of the gas which is bad?



e) we should use left foot braking when under-steering (I don't think this method is good for the average Joe)

 

You can't learn how to ride a bike by reading a book about how to ride one.

I suggest driving slower than usual while using a dedicated set of snow tires. That is the best way to learn how you like to drive in the snow and how your car handles. Driving smooth is the key.

 

That's when I like to find a big empty snow filled parking lot and have at it!

 

The idea (from Scandinavia) behind pressing the clutch is to remove all driving and braking forces from the front wheels - so it is only done without touching the brakes (which can be hard to do in an emergency...) - it allows the front wheels to regain enough grip to steer the car.

So it's applicable to a situation where, say, you might be sliding off the road on a bend - you don't need to stop, you just need to be able to steer, to stay on the road.

It works brilliantly, so it's worth practising when you don't need it, so that you'll be ready to do it when you do need it.

Andrew

 

Not sure I agree that downshifting will be more stable than applying brakes to slow down, unless you find yourself in a situation where slowing only the front tires is a good idea.

 

a and b above are correct.

d is very incorrect, as you would most likely lose traction and continue on your unintended path. If you find yourself sliding in an understeer situation on snow, you should let off the gas initially, gently apply some braking. Once the car starts responding to steering inputs, you may lightly apply throttle.

Best advise, drive much slower than normal. If you don't have much experience, find an empty parking lot and practice getting yourself out of understeer and oversteer situations.

 

Most of those concerns are taken care of if you have DSC.

 

When stopping, or even just slowing down, either braking and downshifting *may* result in some loss of grip. It all depends on how gentle you are with the brake pedal or the clutch. Sometimes it's best just to put in the clutch and coast.

The thing to remember is that driving on slippery surfaces is like walking of ice: you can do it, but *everything* needs to be done carefully. No sudden movements: ease into starts; ease into stops; tip-toe around the corners.

One technique that may prove valuable is taught to many police and ambulance drivers up here in the frozen north. You can do it on dry pavement as well, but it's hard on tires. It's an emergency-only kind of maneuver.

Get up to speed and slam on the brakes to induce a skid. Turn the front wheels in the direction you want to go and then release the brakes. As soon as the front wheel gain enough traction, the car will -- very quickly -- turn. (So be prepared. Do not try this in traffic! Parking lots are good for this kind of thing.)

--
Darryl (driving in Canadian winters for almost 50 years!)

 

First off let me start out by saying: I don't own a Mini, my gf has the Mini though, and I drive it a lot. Her factory tires were nearly bald and she couldn't make it up the canyon one day. Well, after that she was terrified to drive it in the snow. So I took her to a parking lot (at least 3 inches of fresh snow and probably some ice under it, it was 5* outside) and played around in her car and had her do the same. Plus, not that it matters that much, but I do have a decent bit of track/auto-x experience under my belt in all sorts of cars.

Anyway, on to your comments:

A) Completely true in older cars, you have DSC, it limits the torque for you (unless it works different on the manual over the auto). I'd turn her's off, and the front tires would spin like crazy. Leave it on, and even if I floored it it would limit the throttle imput so I didn't give it too much torque. You certainly can start in 2nd, and it may help, but most likely isn't necessary.

B) This can help, but I honestly wouldn't do it unless you think you'll need to slow down that way (like maybe going down a hill) and I still wouldn't really think about it unless you can at least averagely heel-toe. It's better to use your brakes for slowing the car down, as incorrectly downshifting can harm the motor. So either heel-toe, or at least use the brakes to slow down enough that you can safely and smoothly downshift (which may defeat the purpose anyway)

C) I would always stay in a lower gear, even outside of the winter, if the noise and fuel consumption don't bother you. If the weather is really bad, then I'd ignore the noise and fuel consumption a little more. Keeping it low means more torque, which is bad. But as I said before, DSC should limit that, and an intellgent driver can limit that even more. But, back to B, it is easier for the car to slow down from the motor in bad weather conditions, and rather than worry about downshifting, why not just stay in a lower gear?

For example, I am usually in 4th for most of my 40 mph-ish crusing. During bad storms I may leave it in 3rd, so that when I come closer to a light, I just have to lift off the gas to start slowing faster than I would in 4th doing the same thing.

D) If you are understeering, that means the front tires have lost traction, flooring it would not usually help that. The easiest way to think of it is to picture a circle in your head, with an X and Y axis going through it's center. We'll call it the friction circle. Each tire/road surface combo can give out so much friction before losing grip, that's the edge of the circle.

So if we accelerate, we're going up towards the top of the circle, if we do a burnout, we've put so much torque into it that we've broken past the top. Braking is the bottom, and turning left and right are the respective sides.

If you turn left and understeer with apply no gas, that means it has gone off to the left past the circle. Well if you understeer with a lot of acceleration (part of the throttle, lets say) then it would go off in the upper left, and the two forces would take it out much faster than if you turned without or accelerated without.

I think you can understand that. So turning and putting more gas can (won't always, depending on the car and set up, even if we stick to FWD) make you understeer much worse.

E) Last part of D on here too, since they are related. The reason you'd want to push the clutch in is for two things: The first is as mentioned before by someone, takes all the drive power away from them, therefore they can fully use the circle just for turning.

The second thing is along the same lines as the left foot braking: If you can get the rear to go outside of it's friction circle, you will no longer be understeering, and may even be able to get the car to oversteer. Hitting the brake (left foot braking) or even letting off the gas sets more of the car's weight forward, which (in f. circle terms) would decrease the size of the friction circle for the rear tires, making it easier for them to lose grip. This is why you'll see drift cars pulling their E-brakes. It slams the car forward, typically the brakes are only on the rear wheels, which almost instantly forces them to go out the bottom of the friction circle, and bam, your rear slides freely, even in a FWD car.

For the average joe, I would just focus on lifting up on the gas slowly (don't want to unsettle the car too fast, oversteering [in my opinion] is far worse and scarier in an emergency situation than understeering). Rather than left foot brake, if you are still understeering at that point (hopefully you aren't) now you can just brake normally. Rather than slowly or lightly pressing the pedal, a quick tap (which would quickly lean the weight of the car forwards) will help the back end rotate.

Left foot braking does this, while still allowing you to accelerate or maintain your speed. And honestly I wouldn't even do that if I was in an emergency slide in the Mini anyway. I'd probably just lift off the gas faster than I would recommend (depending on how far you are pushing it too though.)

If you have any other questions or anything about what I have said here, let me know. Happy to help. Driving her car in that snow and then driving mine was quite shocking. The thinner tires combo'd with DSC, even with the nearly bald all-seasons, made it relatively easy to drive. For comparison I took my car over to the same lot (The STi listed below, with snow tires on) and did basically the same things. Accelerated by flooring it, turned sharply, and slammed the brakes. Accelerating and braking were the only things I did better. The Mini handles so well already, that even with the difference in tires my intertia from my fat-*** car would make me slide just as easily, and I'm front heavy, so it would understeer.

Only difference is that the "apply more gas rule" works too, I'd give it more gas (especially with my "DSC" turned off) and the car would correct, because the system automatically takes away torque from the front tires and sends it to the rear.

 

As said, don't worry about it. The electronic system ASC (All Season Control, which is part of the DSC system) will help prevent wheel spin on acceleration.

I believe this to be wrong. Downshifting will slow the front wheels, but not affect the rear. So, all your deceleration is dependent on the front wheels. You are more likely to lose traction this way than if you gently use the brakes. Four wheels will have more traction than two.

A lower gear will give you more effective torque at the front wheels. That means it will be easier to apply enough torque to exceed their traction and spin them. ASC will probably prevent this on acceleration, but not on deceleration. I see no reason to use low gears in snow. It may be that low gears help people drive more slowly and that is why they think it a good idea. The key would be to drive slowly. Low gears will not increase traction. They are more likely to overcome traction and cause problems.

I don't think you should worry about it. Just use the gear you would normally use, or leave it to the automatic to choose.

On a slick surface, I think the most important thing to remember is that a quick change in the gas pedal (down or up) is bad. It can cause a quick change in the wheel rotation speed and break the tire loose. Drive gently.

The understeer in 2nd Gen MINIs is not severe. The car is fairly well balanced. However, you can change that considerably by the way you drive. When you decelerate, by letting off the gas or by braking, the weight of the car shifts forward. This reduces weight on the rear wheels and lowers their traction. So, the car may oversteer. This is one reason it is bad to brake or decelerate while turning.

However, you can cause the car to understeer (plow) through deceleration by braking hard enough, or letting up the gas quick enough in a low enough gear (or by downshifting) that the front tires break loose completely. It wont matter what direction the tires are pointed, the car will go in the direction of its momentum.

When you accelerate a FWD car it tends to understeer. Weight is transfered to the rear wheels--increasing their traction. The front wheels have less traction and they are dealing with two forces against their traction. One is the froce of acceleration, and the other is the force from turning.

I believe the best thing to do is to complete your deceleration before a turn. Cruise through the turn at a constant speed--neither decelerating nor accelerating.

The only purpose would be to maintain trottle while braking. If roads were so slick that letting off the accelerator would casue the front wheels to brake loose, there might be some reason to left foot brake gently while slowly letting off the accelerator. This would mean you are traveling at speeds that put you right at the edge of grip. Better to slow down.

Try to anticipate the situation and let up the gas slowly then brake. Jumping off the gas and onto the brake is not a good idea in rain or snow.

I think if you just drive slowly and smoothly, you will be doing as well as you can without the need for convoluted techniques.

 

Best advise I can give is to take it easy. Smooth & easy on all inputs while driving on snow & ice.

 

Two ideas here:
1) When you drive somewhere, leave earlier than you think you will need to.
2) Drive slowly

That's it.

The slower you drive on ice, the more control you have.