R50/53 vs. R56 - I've had enough!
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6th Gear
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From: Arlington, VA
R50/53 vs. R56 - I've had enough!
NOTE: PLEASE READ THE WHOLE POST BEFORE REPLYING
It has been about 5 or 6 months since I've posted on NAM on a regular basis. One thing that turned me off of frequenting the MINI community was the childish behavior of those discussing the new R56. At the time I had some concerns about the upcoming R56 and despite my continual statements that I was going to reserve judgement, I was relentlessly attacked by those planning on buying one. I had hoped that after the R56 had been around for a few months, this bickering would stop and people would just get along. However, I have just read a few recent threads and I am disappointed to see that little has changed.
What is it about some MINI owners that causes them to feel as though they need to assert the superiority of their car over other MINIs and other cars in general? Just because you own a MINI doesn't make you more enlightened nor does it makes you God's gift to humanity, while the rest of the world is left in automotive hell. The attitude many hold here, that their poop doesn't stink and that their MINI is beyond any sort of criticism is offensive and makes me ashamed to be associated with the MINI community. PLEASE NOTE: I am not singling out a particular group of MINI owners, nor do I believe everyone here is guilty of this sort of behavior.
So that being said, I propose that we all do our best to try and repair this ridiculous rift among us. If somebody hates the R56 they should be allowed to say so, if you don't like it just ignore it. Likewise if somebody loves their R56 and you only like the R53 that's fine too. Just respect differing opininions by having an intelligent discussion without making personal attacks.
And finally, I've noticed that some people have posted here on NAM with the sole purpose of bashing the R56. I have a newsflash for you, they are doing it for entertainment. So the next time someone does it, rather than getting your panties up in a bunch, take a deep breath, relax and ignore them. Or if you want to continue entertaining them by acting ridiculous that's your choice too...
Ok, I'm stepping off my soap box now. Any bets on how many posts there will be before this devolves into an argument and the thread gets locked?
It has been about 5 or 6 months since I've posted on NAM on a regular basis. One thing that turned me off of frequenting the MINI community was the childish behavior of those discussing the new R56. At the time I had some concerns about the upcoming R56 and despite my continual statements that I was going to reserve judgement, I was relentlessly attacked by those planning on buying one. I had hoped that after the R56 had been around for a few months, this bickering would stop and people would just get along. However, I have just read a few recent threads and I am disappointed to see that little has changed.
What is it about some MINI owners that causes them to feel as though they need to assert the superiority of their car over other MINIs and other cars in general? Just because you own a MINI doesn't make you more enlightened nor does it makes you God's gift to humanity, while the rest of the world is left in automotive hell. The attitude many hold here, that their poop doesn't stink and that their MINI is beyond any sort of criticism is offensive and makes me ashamed to be associated with the MINI community. PLEASE NOTE: I am not singling out a particular group of MINI owners, nor do I believe everyone here is guilty of this sort of behavior.
So that being said, I propose that we all do our best to try and repair this ridiculous rift among us. If somebody hates the R56 they should be allowed to say so, if you don't like it just ignore it. Likewise if somebody loves their R56 and you only like the R53 that's fine too. Just respect differing opininions by having an intelligent discussion without making personal attacks.
And finally, I've noticed that some people have posted here on NAM with the sole purpose of bashing the R56. I have a newsflash for you, they are doing it for entertainment. So the next time someone does it, rather than getting your panties up in a bunch, take a deep breath, relax and ignore them. Or if you want to continue entertaining them by acting ridiculous that's your choice too...
Ok, I'm stepping off my soap box now. Any bets on how many posts there will be before this devolves into an argument and the thread gets locked?
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NOTE: PLEASE READ THE WHOLE POST BEFORE REPLYING
It has been about 5 or 6 months since I've posted on NAM on a regular basis. One thing that turned me off of frequenting the MINI community was the childish behavior of those discussing the new R56. At the time I had some concerns about the upcoming R56 and despite my continual statements that I was going to reserve judgement, I was relentlessly attacked by those planning on buying one. I had hoped that after the R56 had been around for a few months, this bickering would stop and people would just get along. However, I have just read a few recent threads and I am disappointed to see that little has changed.
What is it about some MINI owners that causes them to feel as though they need to assert the superiority of their car over other MINIs and other cars in general? Just because you own a MINI doesn't make you more enlightened nor does it makes you God's gift to humanity, while the rest of the world is left in automotive hell. The attitude many hold here, that their poop doesn't stink and that their MINI is beyond any sort of criticism is offensive and makes me ashamed to be associated with the MINI community. I am not singling out a particular group of MINI owners, nor do I believe everyone here is guilty of this sort of behavior.
So that being said, I propose that we all do our best to try and repair this ridiculous rift among us. If somebody hates the R56 they should be allowed to say so, if you don't like it just ignore it. Likewise if somebody loves their R56 and you only like the R53 that's fine too. Just respect differing opininions by having an intelligent discussion without making personal attacks.
And finally, I've noticed that some people have posted here on NAM with the sole purpose of bashing the R56. I have a newsflash for you, they are doing it for entertainment. So the next time someone does it, rather than getting your panties up in a bunch, take a deep breath, relax and ignore them. Or if you want to continue entertaining them by acting ridiculous that's your choice too...
Ok, I'm stepping off my soap box now. Any bets on how many posts there will be before this devolves into an argument and the thread gets locked?
It has been about 5 or 6 months since I've posted on NAM on a regular basis. One thing that turned me off of frequenting the MINI community was the childish behavior of those discussing the new R56. At the time I had some concerns about the upcoming R56 and despite my continual statements that I was going to reserve judgement, I was relentlessly attacked by those planning on buying one. I had hoped that after the R56 had been around for a few months, this bickering would stop and people would just get along. However, I have just read a few recent threads and I am disappointed to see that little has changed.
What is it about some MINI owners that causes them to feel as though they need to assert the superiority of their car over other MINIs and other cars in general? Just because you own a MINI doesn't make you more enlightened nor does it makes you God's gift to humanity, while the rest of the world is left in automotive hell. The attitude many hold here, that their poop doesn't stink and that their MINI is beyond any sort of criticism is offensive and makes me ashamed to be associated with the MINI community. I am not singling out a particular group of MINI owners, nor do I believe everyone here is guilty of this sort of behavior.
So that being said, I propose that we all do our best to try and repair this ridiculous rift among us. If somebody hates the R56 they should be allowed to say so, if you don't like it just ignore it. Likewise if somebody loves their R56 and you only like the R53 that's fine too. Just respect differing opininions by having an intelligent discussion without making personal attacks.
And finally, I've noticed that some people have posted here on NAM with the sole purpose of bashing the R56. I have a newsflash for you, they are doing it for entertainment. So the next time someone does it, rather than getting your panties up in a bunch, take a deep breath, relax and ignore them. Or if you want to continue entertaining them by acting ridiculous that's your choice too...
Ok, I'm stepping off my soap box now. Any bets on how many posts there will be before this devolves into an argument and the thread gets locked?
Badmouth a Mini and you are a troll - that's just plain hypocritical.
As it now stands, it is extremely difficult to voice even mild criticsim of the R56 without being bashed around here. I find that hard to understand as I have never had an issue with people criticising any of the cars I have or currently own.
Every one is entitled to their opinion and no one should be called a troll or beat down around here for voicing it.
It's too bad that you felt harrassed to the point that you needed to take a break from the Forum for awhile. It seems that there are a lot of "old timers" who are posting less and less here for various reasons.
At one point I posted a review of my R56 test drive. Keep in mind that at this point I had sold my R53 9 months prior. I had just bought an Evo and had taken a bunch of crap from people for doing so. I was called a ricer, my car was called ugly, I was told the car had no soul - I could go on but what's the point? It really didn't bother me. I am NOT my car. My car is not an extension of my ego. My car is a car and I drive it because I like it and it makes me happy. No one else's opinions matter.....
See, I can listen to other people's opinions and respect them but at the same time disagree with them. Any person who takes mortal offense at you stating your opinion of his pwecious car is a child - yes a child.
After I posted my thread, I received a lot of nasty PMs. I was also called out in the thread for R56 bashing. The thread devolved into a steaming pile of crap - more due to the oversensitivity of the R56 supporters than anything else.
See, it appears that "getting along" and "putting our differences aside" means keeping your opinions to yourself. Well nuts to that.
So welcome back Clark. Feel free to bash the R53, the R56, my recently sold Evo, my crew cab chevy work truck, my wife's XC90 or anything else I drive. I can hear your opinion out - even though it may differ from mine - as long as you are willing to extend the same courtesy to me.
Skip
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6th Gear
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From: Arlington, VA
Thanks Skip, I think some healthy discussion of the pros and cons of our cars is a good thing. And like you said, it's important to not take things too personally. Afterall, as much as we may like our cars, they are just inanimate objects that aren't worth getting too upset about. I hope this thread won't stir things up too much, unfortunately I just realized I probably opened pandoras box. Oh well I can always kick back and watch the show!
P.S. As a Volvo guy I gotta say, I like the XC90!
P.S. As a Volvo guy I gotta say, I like the XC90!
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6th Gear
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From: Overthemountain, AL
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Thanks Skip, I think some healthy discussion of the pros and cons of our cars is a good thing. And like you said, it's important to not take things too personally. Afterall, as much as we may like our cars, they are just inanimate objects that aren't worth getting too upset about. I hope this thread won't stir things up too much, unfortunately I just realized I probably opened pandoras box. Oh well I can always kick back and watch the show!
P.S. As a Volvo guy I gotta say, I like the XC90!
P.S. As a Volvo guy I gotta say, I like the XC90!
You haven't opened anything. Your opening statement was thoughtful, honest and well-reasoned.
Where it goes from here is up to the other members. If people are so wrapped up in their egos that they need to be argue the absolute righteousness of their decisions - this thread will go downhill fast.
On the other hand, if people can learn to accept criticism with a little grace and good humor - things should be fine.
P.S. But the Volvo has no soul!
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6th Gear
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From: Arlington, VA
Well when I first started the thread I thought I'd be a peacemaker and hopefully be a voice of reason. But it has already become evident that my original intention was naive so if this thread is going to inevitably crash and burn, there's nothing I can do about it...might as well enjoy the show.
6th Gear
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Just as there is a difference between expressing an opinion and attacking someone who's opinion differs. To offer insights on your views of 1 car vs. another provides a useful service to the community. Making a pointless declaration, like "the new/prior MINI sucks" does not. So, contrary to another post, no, do not bash away.
6th Gear
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From: Overthemountain, AL
Well when I first started the thread I thought I'd be a peacemaker and hopefully be a voice of reason. But it has already become evident that my original intention was naive so if this thread is going to inevitably crash and burn, there's nothing I can do about it...might as well enjoy the show.
Sure there has been the errant bashthread pop up here & there but for the most part I think people have tired of it 
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6th Gear
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From: Arlington, VA
HOW DARE YOU SPEAK ILL OF VOLVOS!!! You've started a war now, buddy!!!
No, you're right that's especially true of newer Volvos my dad's S80 is the same way. I loved my '89 740 Turbo Wagon that I had in HS, I'm not sure it had soul, but it had character.
Eric, I missed your smart @$$ comments while I was on my sabbatical!
No, you're right that's especially true of newer Volvos my dad's S80 is the same way. I loved my '89 740 Turbo Wagon that I had in HS, I'm not sure it had soul, but it had character.Eric, I missed your smart @$$ comments while I was on my sabbatical!
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He's not asking for it both ways. He's asking people to respect and hear out other people's opinions - whether you agree with them or not - in an adult manner.
For example - I prefer the exterior and some of the interior of the R53. While I prefer the overall R53 package, I cannot deny that some of the interior elements of the R56 are superior and that the Prince engine is a nice unit.
I also have hope that the next JCW will be a real firebreather. However, I think the exterior of the R56 is a step backward and some of the dash elements are silly and cartoonish.
That's my opinion. It doesn't mean that Lava, or Motormouth, or Ryephile or LynnEl are idiots or that I think less of them for buying an R56. I know plenty of idiots who drive R50s and R53s. The question of the level of a person's idiocy is in no way measured by the car he/she drives.
Now I just sold my 06 Evo 9 MR but am still a big fan of the car and prefer the Evo to ANY Mini.
So if you think that the Evo is a rice rocket, or a piece of crap, or that the interior is cheap, or that the wing is childish - feel free to say so. It wouldn't bother me in the least.
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Just as there is a difference between expressing an opinion and attacking someone who's opinion differs. To offer insights on your views of 1 car vs. another provides a useful service to the community. Making a pointless declaration, like "the new/prior MINI sucks" does not. So, contrary to another post, no, do not bash away.
There are so many posts made per day here that the easiest way to put an offensive thread to bed is to ignore it and don't feed the fire. In a day or so it will be page two or three news.
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6th Gear
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From: Arlington, VA
6th Gear
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From: NC
"LynnEl;First, I do not wear panties." Oh Behave!!
Maybe I'm on a prebuying euphoria right now but I agree we should all get along-the R56 kicks butt over so many others and it's been agreed to by many that it rides better, the seats are more comfortable and it's quicker than the R50/R53. I personally like the R53 better and as it's been on the dealers lot too long I'm getting a great deal on one (woot!). Would I turn down an R56--He-ee-ll no! I have found that cheap shots and trolls are not nearly as common here as on other sites which is great and I hope stays that way, now let's all hug
Maybe I'm on a prebuying euphoria right now but I agree we should all get along-the R56 kicks butt over so many others and it's been agreed to by many that it rides better, the seats are more comfortable and it's quicker than the R50/R53. I personally like the R53 better and as it's been on the dealers lot too long I'm getting a great deal on one (woot!). Would I turn down an R56--He-ee-ll no! I have found that cheap shots and trolls are not nearly as common here as on other sites which is great and I hope stays that way, now let's all hug
ghey thread... You're right, it is enough... So why you starting it again. Please delete. And thats my opinion.
6th Gear
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From: Bryan Texas
I thought the trolling had slowed down a bit. Hope it slows more. To me a MINI is a MINI is a Mini. I come here because the folks here are interested in MINI/Minis'.
I got enough Irish in me to enjoy the occasional banter with the odd troll, now and then. But just for fun. They can be like stray cats, if you feed them they will hang around. So I limit the amount of food I leave out.
Furthermore, I feel like I have been playing "Here's Pat" with LynnEl's name.
Guy? Gal? It's about the MINI, does it matter?
The panties statement is either obvious or interesting. I am not sure I want an answer!
I got enough Irish in me to enjoy the occasional banter with the odd troll, now and then. But just for fun. They can be like stray cats, if you feed them they will hang around. So I limit the amount of food I leave out.
Furthermore, I feel like I have been playing "Here's Pat" with LynnEl's name.
Guy? Gal? It's about the MINI, does it matter?
The panties statement is either obvious or interesting. I am not sure I want an answer!
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I has not been replaced - but many here have opined that the car I'm looking hardest at has no soul.
I may have to stop screwing with Chows because I'm looking at the Cayman S. All my VW jokes will come back to haunt me.................
I may have to stop screwing with Chows because I'm looking at the Cayman S. All my VW jokes will come back to haunt me.................
6th Gear
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From: Chicago, NW Burbs
Plain simple common courtesy seems to be lacking by some. Although a lot of the discussion here so far seems to be about how people react to opinion statements, there is also a good way and a bad way to state an opinion. So many people, rather than simply stating they don't like this or that feature of one or the other MINI and why, instead some will "rip" it as if it is the most hideous or ridiculous thing known to man. I do not understand why people do this.
The impersonal nature of the internet is partially to blame. I like to think that a good rule of thumb would be to not post any comment that you would not speak to someone in person.
I can understand why some MINI owners have become sensitive to criticism. Before the R56 came out, we could freely criticize the design and features as there really was no one to be offended. But once the R56 started to reach people, now there were actual real people with feelings to be offended. It became time to tone it down. But some did not. I would be tired of criticism too and perhaps develop a thin skin over it and even possibly run a counter offense with statements of how superior my MINI is.
The impersonal nature of the internet is partially to blame. I like to think that a good rule of thumb would be to not post any comment that you would not speak to someone in person.
I can understand why some MINI owners have become sensitive to criticism. Before the R56 came out, we could freely criticize the design and features as there really was no one to be offended. But once the R56 started to reach people, now there were actual real people with feelings to be offended. It became time to tone it down. But some did not. I would be tired of criticism too and perhaps develop a thin skin over it and even possibly run a counter offense with statements of how superior my MINI is.