Personally, I don't hate Fred.

I actually like him despite some of the issues with his temper. I'm not real excited about the manner in which he has dealt with the hand he was dealt by McLaren . . . but as I've already stated I'm not a fan of Dennis' peculiar managerial style.

Good news is that I agree with you again, although I would much prefer if Alonso could have quietly risen above this without the antics.

Hamilton was more than a little lucky this weekend. I'm a bit bummed because I was hoping for a three way fight to the finish.

PS Ferrari's mistake (which I'm sure made the Ferrari haters happy) truly hurt Kimi. He would've won the race . . . there's no doubt in my mind

 

I think Alonso could be done in F1 at this point. He'll go to Renault next year, where he won't be able to compete for the championship. After a few years they'll dump his big salary and then he'll go the Jacques Villeneuve route: sticking around in hopes of getting a top drive again, but never getting one. It's very rare for an F1 driver to be at the top for very long. Alonso could have been at the top for a while by switching from Renault to McLaren at the perfect time, but he's blown it.

 

I agree, I still cannot but wonder the outcome if Ferrari began on wets. And really, lets move the rule aside for a moment...a Monday morning quarter back question for sure, but wasn't it raining, like raining really hard??? We keep notes about this sort of thing so we set up the car for the conditions, yes? I was shocked???!!!

Massa hasn't been a great rain guy, but he showed some large ones at the end!

 

Wow, I guess standing water doesn't mean it's fully wet. I bet the message from the stewards was "It's not an option to use full wets it's common sense, change your tyres like everyone else."

 

I think that Hammy has outperformed everyones expectations.

I suspect that McLaren saw Alonso as many things - a 'big name' to draw sponsor $$$'s a possible (probable) championship winner for 2007 and the perfect genius for Hammy to learn from.

I believe that McLaren did not even begin to consider that Hammy would upstage Alonso in so many ways in 2007, perhaps at the back of their minds it might happen in 2008, but no way was this expected so quickly.

Now of course the issue that they have is similar to the Prost and Senna problems way back when.....

The only problem is, I am not sure who is who ?????

 

I think that historically only McLaren ends up with two drivers so skilled that they could be number ones anywhere else. The team insistence that there is no #1 also feeds into the competition. Schue & Rubens at Ferrari were very skilled but only in a couple of instances did the team orders affect how Rubens drove the car. I think that Fernando got caught with a really fast teammate. Instead of just out performing him he ended up behind him early. That can only be seen as his issue. Now admittedly Lewis has the lead and the leverage. He's making Fernando look like the rookie.

 

Ummmm, I not sure Alonso did much grooming of Hamilton at all. The guy's been on fire from the getgo and if anything he's been making fun of Alonso behind his back. Racecraft? All's these guys have to do is stay consistent and close, have good in/out laps and pit when the team tells them. You know............just like any of us could do!

 

It's just getting too weird.

From BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/7027743.stm

Formula One officials are investigating Lewis Hamilton's victory in Sunday's Japanese Grand Prix following complaints about erratic driving.
Red Bull's Mark Webber has accused the Englishman of doing a "bad job" behind the safety car after being knocked out of the race while following Hamilton.

Hamilton's win at Fuji gave him a 12-point lead and put him on the verge of winning the world championship.

If he is found guilty, he could have his points from Japan erased.

BBC 5live commentator David Croft, who is at the Chinese Grand Prix for this weekend's race, says there are also suggestions that Hamilton may be penalised 10 places on the grid in Shanghai.

F1 officials are expected to make a decision on Friday.


Part of me wonders whether he showed a little bit of naivety, while part of me wonders whether he had a few tricks up his sleeve. I'd say it was probably a bit of both

Webber was knocked out of the race by Toro Rosso's Sebastian Vettel while they were following Hamilton, and the Australian believes Hamilton braked excessively while they were following the safety car on lap 45.

Webber almost overtook Hamilton as the McLaren driver slowed and moved to the right while following the safety car before an unsighted Vettel hit the Red Bull.

The evidence is believed to be footage filmed from the grandstands at Fuji which appeared on video website YouTube.

Webber told BBC 5live: "Lewis did a great job in the race and deserved to win, but I'm not sure he did such a great job behind the safety car.

I have to admit at the time I thought his driving was very poor.

"Part of me wonders whether he showed a little bit of naivety, while part of me wonders whether he had a few tricks up his sleeve. I'd say it was probably a bit of both.

"I can understand a few tricks when the lights are off, but when the lights are on it means we're going nowhere behind the safety car.

"In dry conditions my Mum can follow Lewis behind the safety car - it's nothing special. The job of the guy who is leading behind the safety to car is to follow the safety car - and when you don't do that it causes problems."


Webber (right) was in second place when the accident happened

Hamilton's main championship rival and McLaren team-mate, Fernando Alonso backs Webber's claims.

Alonso crashed out of the race on lap 41 prompting the reintroduction of the safety car which ultimately led to the controversial incident involving Webber and Vettel.

The Spaniard, who was behind Hamilton for the opening 19 laps of the race under the safety car, said: "I also overtook Lewis two or three times, so it seems that we all agree.

"It's difficult to know what the car in front of you needs to do.

"I didn't see the race on TV but, hearing the comments of the drivers, they seemed to overtake the car in front a couple of times and had to make some unnecessary manoeuvres to avoid the cars in front."

If Hamilton does have his 10 points from Japan wiped out, Alonso will be only two points adrift in the race for the title and he says he has not given up hope of winning a third consecutive championship.

"I believe in miracles for sure," he continued.

"I think anything can happen - this is Formula One - until mathematically you have no chance in the championship, you don't give up.

"F1 is unpredictable sometimes and we have seen it many times, especially in wet races - if maybe it is raining again on Sunday then anything can happen."

German driver Vettel echoed Webber's comments in criticising Hamilton.

"It was my fault, but it is clear the rhythm was not there," he said. "We are all sitting in the same boat. At the point [of the crash) I was distracted, looking to the right.

"I was sure Hamilton was retiring, he seemed to have no power any longer, but by the time I looked back, I was already in Mark's rear end."

However, British motorsport great Sir Stirling Moss said to blame Hamilton for Webber and Vettel's crash was "absolutely ridiculous".

He told BBC 5live: "I think they feel it will better to take the championship to the last race. It could be a real blow for Hamilton."

F1 regulations state: "The safety car shall be used at least until the leader is behind it and all remaining cars are lined up behind him.

"Once behind the safety car, the race leader must keep within five car lengths of it."

 

Ineteresting turn of events that would cause if he's stipped of the points or if he's back 10 spots in China...

 

Wow! What a soap opera F1 has become!

I did notice Hammy's funny behavior behind the safety car, but he did this from the getgo, not just the second period..........

 

Whiners like Webber make the sport look flimsy. Carbon/carbon brakes need to be kept at a certain temp. EVERYONE knows this [except Webber and Vettel] apparently. Hamilton's job is to stay behind the safety car, he did that. It isn't his job to corral the losers behind him and make sure they don't get their racesuits in a bunch.

I think Webber should be fined for crying like the back-of-the-pack loser he is. He's obviously not used to following the lead car; it's only natural for him to complain about it when he is.

 

Agree that the brakes need to stay at temp. It can be argued that Hamilton doesn't have the experience in the difficult conditions of a race like that though. We really don't know how bad it was on the tarmac that day.

We'll have to wait and see what the investigation reveals though

 

The field was a complete mess behind the pace car, and I don't know if any one driver could be found at fault.

Between the usual brake-heating and the low visibility it's a wonder their wasn't more carnage.

 

Yes, Hamilton did a poor job of keeping his brakes up to temperature or at least how he did it. I was thinking he was a little erractic while watching him considering the conditions they were enduring. Still, after watching the YouTube video I don't think you can put the total blame on LH.........he pulled way to the right to slow (just before a left hander) because he came up parallel to the safety car and Webber looks to have seen that and gone left. Vettal now blinded by spray from across the whole track plowed into Webber. I believe Webber is in this case can be absolved, LH should be reprimanded (10 spots or whatever), and Vettal gets his punishment.

Maybe race control should take the blame for this since they kept the field behind the safety car for so long. Did the conditions ever really get any better that had to wait that long? It didn't look like it from our position. Yes I know that this caution period was a result of Fred spinning out but they were behind the car for too long, just like the first 18/19 laps.

But lets look at the bright side of this if all the penalties are handed out......a close battle to the end!

 

S-Driver, you make a good point on race control... we'll have to wait and see. It will make for a great ending to an exciting season.

I wonder if Alsonso will be moving back to Renault next year? Flav has publicly welcomed him back.

 

Most manipulated season in the history of evAr

 

I've run out of asterisks to put on this season.

Makes the whole steroids in sports thing look like a non-issue.

 

MaxN, You think? You must be a Ferrari and Schumi fan to say that... hahahaha

 

ex McLaren employee actually

I just think that the whole thing is so contrived this year - thats all

2007 F1 season ************

 

Ex McLaren employee? What'd you do? Do tell...

 

************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** *******************************************

 

Gromit, what?

 

Lots of asterisks on the season. Or cursing. Take your pick.

Concerning the YouTube video, what I saw, was Hamilton going wide right, almost along side the safety car (huge no-no), and Webber realizing the wall of spray in front of him was the SC and not Hamilton, slamming his brakes so as to not pass Hamilton (and thereby being penalized), and getting hit by Vettel.

 

Hamilton is cleared from the incident

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/7029797.stm

 

Are we going to have rain this weekend at the China GP? Few different predictions show 30%-100% chance of rain