Hey, how about a little perspective?

It is, first and foremost, the World Drivers Championship
NOT the World Constructors Championship

I can't think of a single season that I really gave a flip over who won the constructor's title.

Sorry you guys feel this way.

I have a suggestion. Should you choose to stick around, why don't we all agree to disagree . . . and not let this board become the disaster that the SPEED board is . . .

 

Read more carefully.....no one in this discussion has been pushing more toward the center line.

I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of a breakaway series, but for different reasons than most.....I think. The current series is bloated with layer upon layer of rules, rules and more rules. Leaving all that behind along with Max, Bernie, etc, would be rejuvenating. I'm not stupid (well, not overly stupid), I know there have to be rules, but it would be fun to watch things start from scratch.....sort of. But I DON'T think Ferrari ought to be left behind as long they agree to abide by the same new set of rules as the rest.

 

BAR got in trouble in '04 . . . Ferrari was penalized for running too wide a rear wing on Villeneuve's car in '82. They're all the same. Ferrari is no worse than McLaren, Williams, Honda, etc., etc. They will all take chances to gain competitive advantage. Sometimes they push it and they get caught . . . and rightly so.

McLaren took a chance that no one would be the wiser and they got caught with their pants down.

Breakaway series? Really? And who would run this breakaway series?
The France family? There would still be rules. What set of rules will guarantee peace without boredom this open wheel utopia that you suggest?

As I said, this is not the first time everyone's gotten bent out of shape to the point of threatening anarchy and it won't be the last.

It's not perfect and never will be.

 

i will reserve judgement until i read the exact reasoning behind the decision.

 

100 million $ fine and no points for constructors championship next year as well .

Damnnnnnn !

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

Speaking of weak.

We don't ALL KNOW anything of the sort. You are now assuming facts not in evidence.

 

what's the expression? Know thy enemy?

If they only gained precursory knowledge of Ferrari's design that's a benefit.
If Ron got an extra 15 winks of sleep every night knowing that Ferrari wasn't bringing anything to the table that could stop McLaren's mighty resurgence . . . that's a benefit.

How I wonder . . . if the tables were turned . . . and one day they very well might be . . . would McLaren remain the victim to the great satan from Maranello and his minions in Paris, or could they be guilty of politiking and conspiratorial allegiances?

Oddly, the only thing I found harsh about the penalty was the 100 million.
That seems like an ultimately much stiffer blow to future competition than this season's SECONDARY title.

I regret that I ever chimed in on this one. I'll be watching Spa with the same enthusiasm that I've brought to every F1 race I've ever seen . . . except with the sound turned down so I don't have to hear about this anymore.

 

Don't know about the rest of you, but the sight of Spa just makes everything seem brighter.

We clearly don't know what information was submitted to the FIA in this case, but if what they say is true, that Freddie had such damaging info, that it prompted Ron to goto the FIA first, then you gotta think - maybe, just maybe this was more than just having some paperwork lying around the office.

 

McLaren exposed by spy evidence
By Andrew Benson
BBC Sport at Spa-Francorchamps

McLaren received a systematic flow of information from a spy within rivals Ferrari for nearly three months this year, the FIA has revealed.
Drivers Fernando Alonso and Pedro de la Rosa were aware of the information.
It was the possession of this "highly sensitive" data that led the FIA to fine McLaren £49.2m and deduct their constructors' championship points.
The information came to McLaren chief designer Mike Coughlan from Ferrari chief mechanic Nigel Stepney.
The data McLaren received over the three-month period concerned the Ferrari car's brakes, weight distribution and aerodynamic balance tyre inflation.
In a 16-page document, the FIA said e-mails showed that test driver De la Rosa and reigning world champion Alonso had been aware of the Ferrari data.
All the information from Ferrari is very reliable
Pedro de la Rosa in an e-mail to Fernando Alonso on 25 March
"The emails show unequivocally that both Mr Alonso and Mr de la Rosa received confidential Ferrari information via Mike Coughlan.
"Both drivers knew that this information was confidential Ferrari information and that both knew that the information was being received by Coughlan from Nigel Stepney," the report states.
In what is being viewed as the most damning section of the report, the FIA has published an e-mail exchange between De la Rosa and Alonso.
"All the information from Ferrari is very reliable," De la Rosa wrote to Alonso on 25 March in an exchange about the Ferrari's weight distribution.
"It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I don't know what post he holds now.
"He's the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping in lap 18. He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our chief designer and he told him that."
These are the main points raised in the statement on the FIA website:

Coughlan had more information than previously appreciated
Information included sensitive technical information and sporting strategy
De la Rosa requested and received secret Ferrari data
The information was shared with Alonso
Intention by McLaren personnel to use data in their own testing

McLaren has refused to comment on the FIA's revelations, published on the eve of the Belgian Grand Prix in Spa.
The extent of the information Coughlan received about the Ferrari goes far beyond what was revealed at a first meeting of the FIA's world motorsport council in July.
At that time, the FIA decided not to punish McLaren because there was no proof the information had been used "in such a way as to interfere with the running of the FIA F1 world championship".
But the new evidence persuaded the world council to change its verdict at Thursday's meeting.
De la Rosa revealed plans to test Ferrari's weight distribution in McLaren's simulator, plans that were later abandoned.
It was revealed that Alonso agreed it was "very important" that McLaren tried out the gas Ferrari were using to inflate their car's tyres.
It also emerged that De la Rosa had asked Coughlan for specific details of Ferrari's braking system, and that the designer revealed to the test driver "we are looking at something similar".
The document appears to explode the view that this was only a case of two rogue employees using the information to find better jobs at other teams, and that the confidential information had not been circulated within McLaren, as the team contended at the first world council meeting.
The world council said it had decided to inflict such a heavy punishment on McLaren because "there was an intention on the part of a number of McLaren personnel to use some of the Ferrari confidential information in its own testing".
It added: "The evidence leads the WMSC to conclude that some degree of sporting advantage was obtained, though it may forever be impossible to quantify that advantage in concrete terms."
Alonso and team-mate Lewis Hamilton were not punished in the drivers' championship because "primary responsibility lies with McLaren, and also because McLaren's drivers were offered individual sanction".

 

Here it is: link to pdf

 

What an incredible read !

So, it looks like Pedro and Fred where hugely implicated !

bye bye Fred - back to Renault you go, please......

 

So, because of the FIA's investigative methods, McLaren loses all its points but Lewis and Fernando get to race for the Driver's Championship with what the FIA concludes is likely an illegal car. Good for them!

[FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]

 

Pretty much my reaction - I am almost surprised that they still have jobs, all three of them are in serious breach of contract.

 

WOW ! ! !

 

After reading the summary of the evidence, I am shocked. I can't believe the drivers were involved in this. I thought they were just automotons who drove cars Friday-Sunday and partied with hotties Monday-Thursday. For Fernando - the twice defending world champion! - to be involved in the cheating is startling and dismaying. It also begs the question, if he was involved in this, what must the hyper-competitive MSchu have been involved in during his career?!

 

IMHO Alonso's already demonstrated that he's a hyper-competitive sort . . . especially when it comes to getting his way!

 

Holy cow - it's getting even more amazing!

From ITV: "McLaren boss Ron Dennis has revealed that he was the source of the new evidence that prompted the FIA to revisit the spying case...Dennis said at Spa on Friday that he approached the FIA as soon as he became aware of the existence of the emails [between Alonso and de la Rosa]."

Stay classy, Ron!

 

Wow! Ron Dennis is classy.

I am really rooting for Hami now.

Down with Alonso



I still like Ferrari

 

I hardly care who wins, the whole things is tainted.

 

Uh . . . that's as soon as he became aware that Alonso might beat him to it.

Some class.

 

I posted my comment prior to watching Speed's coverage of Friday practice on tape last night.

I don't know what's rumor and what's fact, but Speed's guys said the emails came to light when Alonso tried to use them to blackmail his own team, saying he would take the emails to the FIA (or WMSC or wherever) unless he was made the clear number 1 driver at McLaren for the rest of the year. That certainly could be a rumor or hyperbole. I can't imagine him still being on the team if it were true.

 

Here's one report:

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlin...15210434.shtml

 

Perhaps I've been a touch rough on Dennis, but from my vantage point:

*I certainly hope Stepney and Coughlan's careers are finished and they face criminal charges

*Dennis rationalized and justified certain questionnable decisions in his mind

*Alonso will not be driving a McLaren next season

*It is unfortunate that apologists discount this as nothing more than a conspiracy between the FIA and Ferrari.

Kimi is on pole at Spa. All is right with the world again.

 

Watching a race at Spa goes a long way to help me forget all this negative biz.

When Hamilton got a bit loose during qualifying yesterday the Speed guys blamed it on dirt already on the road, presumably left there during a MINI Cooper race held there earlier in the day. MINIs racing at Spa! I sure wish they would broadcast THAT race here.

 

For those who are tracking the HUGE asterisk on this season McLaren would have 192 constructors points.