Minardi would be fun, but Stoddard runs a champ car team now. OzJet.

It's amazing though. Scott has these incredible starts, picks up a few places right off but can't hold them because of the crap car.

 

I was actually thinking a few years prior . . . Senoir Minardi . . . even though I miss characters such as Stoddart (sp?) and Eddie Jordan.

 

Quote from Sir Hobbs............."it's as dry as a dead dingos' appendage".

 

To try to stop the kind of crap that lying Alonso pulled today on Hamilton, Ron Dennis should tell Alonso to let Hamilton by one time, after which they can race. Since Alonso probably won't agree, Ron should tell the two drivers that he'll order Alonso's refueler to hold up filling Alonso's car until Hamilton passes if Hamilton is still behind at the first pit stop. People with integrity have got to stand up to this crap.

 

Windsor: How much time did you need to get the additional lap?
Hamilton: About as much as I was delayed.

OUCH!

 

Personally, I'm finished with Senor Fred.

The FIA should step in and punt the poorest sportsman in the recent history of the world championship to the back of the grid, just as they did Schumacher at Monaco in '05.

It simply seems that each race weekend brings a new chapter in nonsense. Brake testing and futzing around with Massa in practice(!) for Europe and now this.

 

Fun stuff! Fred's finally showing his true colors in ways he can't easily hide. Given the current issues percolating in the background I expected some sort of sparks between McLaren and Ferrari.....McLaren can't exactly blame Ferrari for this one.....can they?

 

The FIA did step in. Alonso is demoted to 6th position on the grid - and McLaren is ineligible for team points in Hungary!

It seems odd for the FIA to weigh in on an intra-team issue, but I suppose this goes back to the days of Ferrari's team orders. Even though it only affected one team, it puts the series in a bad light.

 

Ha! I stand corrected. Apparently the latest: its Ron Dennis after all!

LOL. Where does one start?

Suggested reading: Niki Lauda's "My Story." I thought I knew Ron Dennis until I read this book. Gotta love Niki Lauda. Not afraid to call it like it is.

 

It puts Ron Dennis in a bad light . . . not the series. The FIA punishment is right on the mark.

What part of the orders controversy from Monaco (fueled by the British Press in their lunacy for Lewis) did Dennis not understand? Quali or race . . . the drivers are supposed to be able to take the fight to the track uninhibited of team agenda.

What Dennis did . . . not the FIA . . . is unfortunate. It was ridiculous.

 

Well, so far Vettel hasn't stepped forward as a savior for Toro Rosso. Admittedly, he is still getting used to the car. It will be interesting to watch him for the rest of the season.

Sebastian Vettel, Toro Rosso (20th, 1m 22.177s)

 

And wouldn't you believe................Ferrari have the opportunity to gain maximum points on McLaren in the WCC and they won't be able to capitalize because of the teams' blunder on Massa's pitstop....

Yeah..... Vettal will show Toro Rosso that it's the car, not the drivers....

 

I think the point most are missing is that this race was Alonso's turn to be lighter on fuel, determined by the team. Lewis was instructed numerous times to let Alonso by in Q3 so the pit sequencing would work out, but he refused to comply. When Alonso came in, he held position until the team told him to go.
In my opinion, it was Lewis who was in the wrong by trying to take the extra lap of fuel from Alonso and refusing to follow the team's directions. Now that Lewis has behaved in this way, the gloves are off for the rest of the season. Don't get me wrong, I think Lewis is an awesome driver, but he went over the line on Saturday.

McLaren will have to deal with this internally. As far as the FIA is concerned, I think they should butt out of these type of situations and let the team sort it out. Team orders should be perfectly legal, as F1 is a team sport.

 

To recap:

1. Lewis was wrong not to let Alonso by at the beginning of Q3.

2. According to today's pre-race show, Alonso stayed in the pits for 10 seconds on his own volition after the team had counted him down to leave.

3. The stewards got involved because intra-team issues have resulted in major controversy before (e.g. MSchu/Rubens team orders), and they are no longer tolerated.

4. Ron Dennis/McLaren gave the stewards a shady explanation and were not forthcoming with the facts. The stewards have a particular dislike for that sort of thing.

5. The punishments meted out were the result of conduct unbecoming of the sport.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right, right?

If Hamilton disobeyed then yes, take it internally . . . but don't stifle competition . . .

I could not disagree with you more. IMHO, what we witnessed on Saturday is bad for the sport. Especially considering all of the effort that has been undertaken to make the sport more competitive.

How can one be apologetic for Dennis' actions and simultaneously criticize Ferrari for the Austrian Grand Prix debacle?

I can't assume that you support Ferrari's actions at that Grand Prix or the questionnable finish at Indy several years ago? If the FIA rule says no team orders I would imagine that means no team orders.

Hamilton's sin should've been dealt with internally. Instead, Ron Dennis made it an FIA issue by 1) addressing it during competition and 2) manipulating the outcome of that competition. He made it an FIA issue, not the other way around. The punishment was just.

Cheers to Hamilton and Kimi for two flawless drives today.

 

Spot on!

Just as in most fights, its the person that throws the second punch that gets caught.

One failure of F1 is that they only have one pit crew per team, so the strategies of the drivers cannot be independent. This makes team strategy/orders a requirement. If they want to fix that, then mandate a pit crew & pit box per car entered. Its not like they couldn't afford it. It sure would shuffle out most of the old tracks, like Monaco. But Indy sure could handle it.

Alan

 

Both drivers should have been dealt with by McLaren, and the FIA should have butted out of it.

A six place penalty on Alonso was reprehensible. Since it was only between Alonso and Hamilton, I could see giving the pole to Hamilton, and placing Alonso in 2nd on the grid. They were one and two anyway.

 

Alonso sat there for 20+ seconds on team efforts to time his exit according to circuit traffic, and then with Hamilton in cue, he sat another 10 seconds for one single purpose: to spite him and deny his challenge.

The loser in this situation is the sport . . . the advertisers and the fans . . . anyone who paid to see the pole position decided on the track. The sport was deprived a defining moment in their fight for the WDC.

In effect, what Alonso did to Hamilton was no different than Schumacher's stunt against Alonso at Monaco in '05.

Had Dennis come right out and said "yeah, I made him sit there" your argument might hold water but the truth of the matter is that everyone at McLaren tried to pussyfoot around the question . . . there were in fact three separate explanations offered (!) before the stewards had simply had enough.

There is a HUGE difference between team strategy and this absurd management failure that unchecked works against the spirit of competition and rewards petty, childlike behavior.

 

It was Ron Dennis who chose to make this an FIA issue, by conducting team discipline on the circuit on FIA time and at the expense of the competitive spirit of the sport.

Not so certain that Hamilton would share your point of view.
How he was able to contain all outward display of emotion on the slight is beyond me . . .

Perhaps your suggestion would have in fact been the better and more reasonable penalty.

However, I think Fred's harsher sentence was somewhat brought upon himself due to neither his nor Dennis owning up to what happened.

 

argument? My quoted text is a statement of fact.

Alan

 

Obviously I'm a bit worked up by this entire episode but I was referring to your assertion that team strategy/orders are a requirement.

My contention is that under the current regs: strategy is acceptable, certainly, but orders are now a different matter. Therefore, IMHO your quoted text is not exactly fact.

There is perhaps a grey area where a certain amount of preferential command is allowable, but there is no doubt in my mind that Saturday's events went beyond a reasonable definition of the rule.

Any discussion of "intra-team" allowance doesn't make much sense to me when one considers that Hamilton and Alonso are supposed to be allowed unrestricted freedom to contest for the WDC. In my mind the rules have been adjusted to place emphasis on the drivers . . . not the teams.

 

McLaren could have worse problems than having two amazing drivers on their teams. They could be caught up in the courts... oh wait. Never mind.

 

Maybe they won't have two amazing drivers next year. According to ITV: "Ron Dennis has signalled that Fernando Alonso is free to leave McLaren after this season if he is cannot live with the team’s commitment to treating both drivers equally."

Not such a bold statement, really. Alonso has nowhere to go but down from McLaren. I suppose Ferrari could dump Massa for Alonso, but a Kimi-Alonso team would be rife with personnel issues. I imagine BMW or Williams would make room for him, but do they have the money to pay him? Toyota will be free of RShu after this year (I think) so they certainly would have the money.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see him back at Renault, but something tells me Fred will survey the scene and determine that perhaps it is time to grow up and start acting like a world champion.

Moving to a struggling Renault operation would be a step backwards.

BMW's fortunes are on the rise and they might very well try to snag him . . .

Toyota simply isn't competitive enough . . .

and I personally wonder whether Ferrari would see any real advantage bringing a disruptive bull into their china shop.

 

Isn't there a rumur out there about Ferrari offering LH $35 million?