Something like that...though it may be about relenquishing a car length or two rather than number of corners...can't remember.

I think the question of whether Kimi pushed him is considered as a separate incident; how or why Ham ended up cutting the chicane doesn't bear on how he exits the chicane or how he deals with it...I think.

 

Hey.....if LH had just followed Kimi, after he was forced to cede the position, he never would have been close enough to try that pass on the Kimster. But he would have gotten him during the next lap, I'm sure.

I'm a Ferrari fan, yes.....but I'm a little disappointed that Masa walks away with this one because he doesn't deserve it. LH does because he and Kimi drove a great race and let's face it --- Kimi gave this one away. After everything he spun out with about two corners to go!

 

Hell, Kimi spun twice. The first one would have given up his position to LH. The second put him out of the race.

 

Yeah, can you imagine how he felt watching Lewis slip and slide by those last couple of corners? He could just about see the checkered flag from where he was standing! Talk about rubbing salt into a wound!

 

He knew what might happen long before the race. I remember reading that Raikkonen was really hoping for either dry or wet, but not both. Don't know whether it's that he can't handle it or the car doesn't work well, but he's had a lot trouble with intermitent rain conditions.

 

Perhaps that's related to tire selection. You have an even playing field when everyone selects the same type of tire--not so when it's intermittent and some are sliding on drys and others are scrubbing on intermediates. Also, the pavement varies by corner, bank, elevation, and even shade or sun. It retains or sheds water in irregular patches, just like your local highway. Ever corner over moist pine needles in shade after coming off a dry straight? At speed I imagine the transition areas are...touchy.

 

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...09171019.shtml

Also, Niki Lauda opinion:

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2008/...nothing-wrong/

 

Massa said Hamilton was "maybe a bit too optimistic" in taking the lead.
"If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it," he said.

I wonder if this is the same mindset as the stewards?

 

I don't agree with Massa.

Lewis firmly had a hold of Kimi at that point of the race. Had he been able to fall in line behind Kimi through the chicane he would have caught him eventually down the straight.

 

I have found something else. That LuHam gave back the place is not the issue. FIA rules state that an infraction like cutting the chicane has a mandatory drive through penalty, or if it is too late in the race, the 25 second penalty.

He was done for regardless.

16) INCIDENTS
16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by
any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to
the race director for investigation) which :
- necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 41 ;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code ;
- caused a false start by one or more cars ;
- caused a collision ;
- forced a driver off the track ;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
Unless it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the above, any incidents involving
more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.
16.2 a) It shall be at the discretion of the stewards to decide, upon a report or a request by the race director,
if a driver or drivers involved in an incident shall be penalised.
b) If an incident is under investigation by the stewards a message informing all teams which driver or
drivers are involved will be displayed on the timing monitors.
Provided that such a message is displayed no later than five minutes after the race has finished the
driver or drivers concerned may not leave the circuit without the consent of the stewards.
16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident :
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping ;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds
and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of ten grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or
after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed
race time of the driver concerned.

 

Except that in the quote from one of the stewards--look at the link "Italy loves me" below the Lauda quote--they had the additional option of imposing a penalty of 10 grid places in the next race. Hmmm. Wonder why they chose the time penalty in this race. Oh. I understand. One red crashed, but the other red was runner-up.

Besides, Lewis was forced off the road, plain as day. It wasn't as if he wanted to take an alternate road. In fact, the road was there for just that circumstance!

 

If you read the regs I posted (16.3), the ten place grid penalty is not an option for what LuHam did.

The space for cutting the chicane isn't there to gain advantage, it's there to prevent injury in case someone misses the chicane due to a racing incident or poor driving. Trying to pass in a chicane on a wet track is poor driving as far as I'm concerned.

As far as being forced off the road, that's debatable. Both cars were on hard dry tires, on a wet track. Traditional racing lines go out the window. You are absolutely going to go wide out of a corner, there's no more grip. Kimi (or any other driver) had the right to defend his position.

Choosing to try an outside move, in the wet, in a chicane.... dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

No, I think that's what separates the great drivers from the ones that get passed. Not dumb, ballsy maybe, risky maybe, but not dumb.

Another ballsy move others might have thought dumb: Alonso's pass on Schumi through the 130R at Suzuka '06, at 205+ MPH! Risky, and just great!!!

 

If it works, it's balsy. If it doesn't it's dumb.

What Fred did to Mike was on a dry track. What LuHam tried was in the wet, and the wet demands a bit more judgement. He had about 2.5 laps to pass Kimi, and he tries it there in the wet?

 

I thought it was a ballsy move, and a great one for the rewind reels. He did it at an unexpected time and he made it work, until the Ferrari Intervention Agency decided otherwise...after they even told the team the lift to let Kimi regain was OK.

Yeah, Alonso was on the dry...but at very high speed. I have a DVD with that pass. It was just great (and I don't even like him). I've never seen anything else on the 130R but follow the leader.

Dean

 

The thing is, he didn't make it work. Not at all. He had to take the escape route, and it ultimately cost him the race.

There's more to the regs then just letting Kimi regain the lead. After cutting the chicane, LuHam needed to stay in 2nd place for two corners to completely negate the advantage he gained cutting the chicane. If he had followed Kimi through the chicane, he wouldn't have been close enough coming out to tuck right into the slipstream like he did. So even though he gave up the place, he didn't give up the advantage. It's in the rulebook, and McLaren crying that some official told them it was ok is BS. The stewards made the right call.

Understand, I am NOT a Ferrari fan, and a marginal Kimi fan. I cheer for Alonso.

 

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=43917

"World champion Kimi Raikkonen topped the timesheets for Ferrari in second practice for the Italian Grand Prix as something approaching normal service resumed at Monza. After a rain-drenched first practice session the sun came out on Friday afternoon, drying the track, and allowing Raikkonen to set a time of 1m23.861s on the soft dry tyres.
Behind the Ferrari driver the two BMWs were second and third, with just 0.016s separating Robert Kubica and Nick Heidfeld.
Lewis Hamilton was fourth for McLaren, a tenth shy of Raikkonen’s time, but 0.25s faster than his closest championship rival Felipe Massa, who was back in sixth in the other Ferrari."


Ferrari looks strong as long as it's dry. Wow, good showing for the BMWs. I know, it's only practice.

 

Here's the latest:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/120920...-date-set.html

 

SHOCKER!!!!

This is just so cool! From F1.com

"Red Bull teams nearly locked out the front two rows of the grid for the Italian Grand Prix, as Toro Rosso’s Sebastian Vettel became Formula One’s youngest-ever polesitter in appalling weather conditions at Monza on Saturday.

It began to rain heavily with 15 minutes to go before the start of qualifying, and after the McLarens of Heikki Kovalainen and Lewis Hamilton set the pace in Q1, 21 year-old Vettel took over in Q2.

That session proved to be Hamilton’s undoing. After an exploratory run on inappropriate standard wet tyres - extreme-wets were the way to go throughout the hour - he just didn’t get his McLaren up to speed and ended it 15th on 1m 39.265s. He was not alone, however. A spin prevented BMW Sauber’s Robert Kubica from bettering 1m 36.697s which left him 11th and the first to fall, and behind Force India’s Giancarlo Fisichella (1m 36.698s) and Red Bull’s David Coulthard (1m 37.284s), Kimi Raikkonen languished 14th on 1m 37.522s for Ferrari.

Vettel made no mistakes in Q3, consistently outrunning his competition, even though corners such as Ascari were so wet that aquaplaning caught out many. The German pushed his STR3 round in 1m 37.555s, and though Kovalainen managed 1m 37.632s, it was not enough.

Behind them, Mark Webber’s final lap for Red Bull jumped him up to third on 1m 38.117s, pushing Red Bull stablemate Sebastien Bourdais down a place to fourth in the second Toro Rosso, on 1m 38.445s. The Frenchman was lucky to get away with a spin exiting Ascari.

Reflecting the highly unusual nature of this grid, Nico Rosberg was fifth for Williams on 1m 38.767s, ahead of Felipe Massa’s Ferrari, in which the Brazilian could not better 1m 38.894s.

The Toyotas of Jarno Trulli and Timo Glock sandwiched Fernando Alonso’s Renault, the Italian lapping in 1m 39.152s, the Spaniard in 1m 39.751s and the German 1m 39.787s. Nick Heidfeld, who spun in Q1, completed the top 10 with 1m 39.906s for BMW Sauber.

Behind Kubica, Fisichella, Coulthard, Raikkonen and Hamilton, Rubens Barrichello was 16th for Honda on 1m 36.510s ahead of Renault’s Nelson Piquet (1m 36.630s), Williams’ Kazuki Nakajima (1m 36.653s), Honda’s Jenson Button (1m 37.006s) and Force India’s Adrian Sutil (1m 37.417s).

With more rain possible for Sunday, a fantastic race is in prospect as Vettel and co seek to capitalise on their performances, as Kubica, Raikkonen and Hamilton do everything they can to overcome their tribulations."

 

If there's some time of either little or no rain tomorrow, I see Vettel's P1 not lasting for long. He's good but I don't see him holding onto it for very long.

 

How cool is this race going to be! LH and Kimi coming thru the field on a one stopper or longish 1st stint and Masa just hoping to stay clear of trouble to maximize points over LH. But I'm hoping for a great showing from Toro Roso...

 

I am SO looking forward to tomorrow's race. Spa was exciting, but DAYAUM!

 

Great historic race at Monza. Congrats to Sebastian Vettel and the whole Red Bull / Toro Rosso / Minardi family. Fantastico, Bravissimo!

 

It's always great when there's a new winner. Who doesn't like that, right?

 

Wow, shut my mouth on that one. I never saw that coming. At first, I was like "Blah, flash in the pan, won't last" then I thought he earned it and deserved every accolade that he got. I was as speechless as Varsha and Hobbs were when he took the checkers. I usually stop watching after the cars cross the line but something kept me watching the post race events. I should have seen 2008 as being a season of firsts: Heikki gets pole, Heikki wins, Bob gets a win and a pole, Red Bull takes a pole and a win. And not only did he get P1 and a win, he did it at Monza. In the rain. If that isn't one of if not the hardest things to do in F1, I don't know what is. Here's to Vettel.