I was hoping that the 09 JCWs might be immune from this problem, but I now see that it was wishful thinking. We've had some cold mornings and it's been fine, but this afternoon it happened - it fit the reported profile too; a very short run time to back it out of the garage, sitting for only 45 minutes while I washed it, and then a restart to put it back in the garage. When I restarted the engine, it was 47 degrees and I'm at ~5K miles.

It sounded horrible! Now I get why people freak out over this.

 

Interesting, I would suggest a log and call your dealer on Monday to record the issue so your on record.

Correct me if I am wrong, there has not been any engine failures due to this problem? Just a lot of aggravation.

Sorry to hear you have it on your JCW, we will watch Mr. U's JCW and see what develops, but it only has about 1400 miles on it.

My 07 (knock on wood) has not had this problem.

 

What happens if you turn off the motor (during the cold start issue), wait 30 seconds then turn it on again?

Sorry to hear this. I'm sure if you're experiencing it, I'll probably experience it as well.

 

"EXCESSIVE ENGINE RATTLE ON COLD START

Customer complaint

Customer may complain that there is an excessive engine rattle on cold start, especially if the vehicle is left for several day's. The noise is simular to a "Diesal type noise" on cold start.

Solution Status

The noise described above may be related to a faulty timing chain tensioner mechanism, however it is very importnat that the vehicle is tested by the workshop first to determine that there is a specific problem. For example there is a potentional noise that may be coming from the vacuum pump which is normal operation. The technicians must refer to PuMA Measure 10686850 for the latest information.

Should the workshop determine that there is a noise that can be attributed to the timing chain tensioner fault, then there are two stages of repair available.

Vehicles produced up to 30.04.07 - replacement of timing chain tensioner/chain/guides and sprockets will resolve the problem. Please refer to PuMA Measure 10686850

Vehicles produced from 01.05.07 - A modified timing chain tensioner assembly will not be available untill approx December 08.The noise is not detrimental to the life or operation of the engine and is purely an acoustic issue. Please refer to PuMA Measure 10686850.

 

So basically we need to wait until December for a fix?

 

No difference. I went out an hour later to try again and got the same hideous noise. I even let it run for a couple of minutes and it got no better. I didn't have the stomach to take it out for a drive or let it run any longer despite what Mini/BMW say about it being an acoustic-only issue. Something is clacking like hell and in my book that can't be good.

This morning it was even cooler in the garage and it was fine. Go figure... this is a very weird problem. So for me, the plan is for no short duration running/restarting when the engine oil is cold until we get the fix in December.

 

2007 MCS
Purchased April2007
6 Speed Manual Transmission.
Build date? dealer has car so I cannot check at the moment.
At 11000 miles took Mini in for anual service. Service Manager heard, at my request, "abnormal engine noise". They replaced timing chain tensioner. Two weeks ago, 13Nov08, took Mini in for scheduled service at 18000 miles. Informed Service Manager about cold start noise. They performed schduled service, however I took Mini in for service on Friday so it would sit over the weekend. Upon cold start next Monday Service Manager confirmed "abnormal engine noise". They still have the Mini and I am worried they will simply install a new timing tensioner but not solve the real problem.

Searching these pages it seems this "abnormal engine noise" is well known. I find reference to PuMA Measure 10686850 as a technical document that the service personel are to reference in fixing the "abnormal engine noise" problem.

Does anyone have a copy of the PuMA 10686850 document that they can send me or post so that I will be better informed and possibly be able to help my local dealer find a perminent fix for the engine noise problem?

 

... similar to Motor Head's above with slight twist

- ran some errands, car was warmed up, put car in garage
- 45 minutes later decide to wash car, pull car into driveway
- wash car, put car away for the night
- next morning start car, engine rattles, drive car for a few minutes, rattle clears up

I'm going to call my dealer next week armed with William Blake's post above.

Steve

 

My approach since this happened the first time is to always give the engine time to warm up before shutting it off. When I pull it out to wash, I leave it running. It hasn't returned since.

From the way the problem manifests itself, I like the theory about air in the oil system causing an oil distribution/pressure problem after short run periods with higher oil viscosity levels.

 

you know what's interesting that i JUST noticed... this happens to my car EVERY time I wash it. When I start up after a wash, it will make the noise and wont go away until I drive it for a long while, or at least a couple starts later. I noticed that several of you guys also mentioned washing your cars, letting it sit, and then restarting. Just an observation that I noticed...

 

I wonder if switching to 0-30W would check the problem? Has anyone with the clatter tried this??

 

I had the same problem with mine. It sounds so horrible!!! How did they not have this fixed by now. I know that this has been going on for a year or 2.
By the way mine happened also after I washed it!!!!! I was reading and going down when I realized that it was after I washed it. I did it after a few starts and it was only maybe 35 degrees out, so not too cold. It has happened already 3 times, last 2 at 4500 miles.

 

For mine, I would start it up and move the car prior to wash and then shut it off. There would be no clattering. Then I would wash it, and start it up again, and bam! Diesel MINI time! Motorhead mentioned above that he lets the car warm up before shutting it off. I think I will try this next time to see if that eliminates the clattering after a wash to confirm that this is indeed the reason for it.

 

One of the other cold start chatter threads has multiple posts describing the issue being observed after car washes and brief periods of engine operation:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...94#post2505094

It causes one to be highly skeptical that this observed behavior correlates to anything related to the timing chain tensioner assembly.

We shall see...

 

^ interesting! I also agree with you that the timing chain tensioner probably has very little to do with this...

I think MINI Quality Engineers are really dropping the ball on this one. When I have warranty field problems (I work as a quality engineer for another car maker), I stay with the problem vehicle until I find the root cause, or find one at the factory with the same problem. Too bad I don't have unlimited access to parts at the MINI factory to carry out a root cause analysis on this :(

 

I agree! I sure seems to me that the BMW/MINI engineers are chasing down symptoms of the problem in the tensioner assembly and not the root cause. I can start the car on a cold morning and like any other car I've owned hear quite a bit of valve noise for a fraction of a second until the oil system pressurizes - then a normal cold engine (i.e. slightly noisy until warmed up). When this problem occurs, it doesn't sound as if the oil system is pressurizing at all. It doesn't seem to me that it's just coming from the clacking tensioner either, as there is a lot of valve clatter as well.

Is anyone here having this problem after the car has been restarted after being at full operating temperature? If not, maybe we should we start calling this the "Car Wash Clatter".

 

I will confirm that the only time it has happened to me it was like this: cold start.....ambient temp around 40 degrees.... drove it just around the block to change parking spaces, then **** it off. returnd in 5 hours, started it up and there it was ......that awful diesel-lkike sound. Now, I have been very **** about never repeating that type of scenario and it has not occured since that one time.

 

In may car once the clatter began it would always return on the next cold start but the car had to sit at least overnight. At first the clatter would stop within a few seconds, probably normal pressurization time of the oil system but the car did not have this few second delay originally. Over the course of the next 6 weeks the clatter took longer and longer to stop. Before I took the car to the dealer it would take a full minute for the clatter to stop. The clatter sounded awful so I would upshift as soon as the noise started, around 1800rpm. I wound continure driving this way and after about a minute when the engine go to 1800rpm there would be no noise and I could then rev the engine to much higher rpm's and there would be no noise.

 

Try this... before you shutdown the car after your done driving (i.e., car is warmed up):

1. Rev car to 3,000 RPM
2. Push Start/Stop while car is rev'd to 3,000 to shutdown the car
3. That should leave enough engine oil in the chamber to avoid cold start clatter issues.

YMMV.

Krut

 

Interesting. However, I tried this and it didn't seem to work.

Today was the coldest it's been since I've had the car (about 8F) and the clatter was much more pronounced and took longer to disappear than I'd ever seen it. Embarrassing to drive around like that.

 

i find minis to be a lil cold natured. i get the clatter when its cold . i let it warm up at idle before i leave and it slowly gets back to normal. also if it sits up overnight it seems to bring on the clatter. it sucks but if its not harmful i can live with it.

 

My MCS did it for the first time this weekend. Ambient temp was about 45, parked outside overnight, sounded like a bunch of marbles in the engine when I started it. I tried stopping and restarting and did the same thing so I went ahead and drove a mile to the local taqueria keeping it below 3K rpms. Went in for a few minutes and when I restarted it for the trip home, it was quiet again. Sounds horrible but I don't think it's causing any damage.

 

I wonder if it's something to do with the oil on demand system, coupled with the CCT??

 

wondering, anyone/everyone with clatter... did you change your oil after break-in before the clatter?

 

I too have expereinced this awful noise on my 2009 JCW Clubman. It began around 4400miles and has been occuring intermittantly. I brought it to the dealer and they could not re-create the noise (isn't that always the case!). I needed the car so I was advised to bring it back for a longer look the next time it occurs.

I fully expect it to recur since others are experiencing it as well.