Factory JCW Talk (2009+) Discussion of the factory-built 2nd Gen JCW MINI Cooper S, and all unique aspects of this trim.

No LSD unit on the JCW factory car...

  #1  
Old 04-30-2008, 10:27 AM
key_lime_hamster
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No LSD unit on the JCW factory car...

.....has anyone else read this already?

http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/04/...tory-jcw-mini/



'be real interested when laptime comparisons among the MCS, MCS JCW stage I and the JCW car come out.
 
  #2  
Old 04-30-2008, 10:34 AM
ZAMIRZ
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The 1-series is also unavailable with a true mechanical LSD and instead comes with this same electronic LSD, so it makes sense that this would trickle down to the MINI.
 
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:40 AM
MINImizeMe
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I think for 1-series it was left out due to space and weight considerations.
 
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:40 AM
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Sounds like AST without cutting engine speed. Interesting to see how well it works.
 
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:11 AM
key_lime_hamster
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Originally Posted by Robin Casady View Post
Sounds like AST without cutting engine speed. Interesting to see how well it works.
i'd like to see how it works and hopefully i'll get to drive a JCW car (i doubt they'd allow it unless a dealer employee owned one for themselves).

i'm having trouble visualizing how this works because you're not re-diverting power so much as stopping the inside spinning wheel. it's a subtle yet significant difference between this scenario and having the true locker.
 
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by key_lime_hamster View Post
i'm having trouble visualizing how this works because you're not re-diverting power so much as stopping the inside spinning wheel. it's a subtle yet significant difference between this scenario and having the true locker.
Well, with a standard differential, braking one wheel will send the power to the other, right? So, if the computer can brake the spinning wheel just enough to stop it spinning, it could work well, or so it would seem to me.

The problem with AST is that it cuts engine speed, so the engine seems to bog down when there isn't much traction.
 
  #7  
Old 04-30-2008, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Robin Casady View Post
Well, with a standard differential, braking one wheel will send the power to the other, right? So, if the computer can brake the spinning wheel just enough to stop it spinning, it could work well, or so it would seem to me.

The problem with AST is that it cuts engine speed, so the engine seems to bog down when there isn't much traction.
the eLSD would appear, on paper, to work better for RWD cars where it sees application already in the 911, the Cayman and now it will premier in the 135.

my other question, already posed in another thread, is how it relates to braking ability. it appears intuitive that usually the front brakes do the lion's share of the work in OEM cars. so now we add to this greater thermal stress by also using the brakes to soak up the kinetic energy of a freely spinning wheel --how much faster is the onset of brake fade (which is defined as the point where the brakes cannot hold any more heat and cease to work effectively)?
 
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Old 04-30-2008, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MINImizeMe View Post
I think for 1-series it was left out due to space and weight considerations.
The whole 1-series baby BMW thing is clever marketing:

1-Series (128i) $28,600
3252lbs
Wheelbase: 104.7
L x W x H: 177.1 / 76.1 / 56.0

3-Series (328i) $32,400
3351lbs
Wheelbase: 108.7
L x W x H: 108.6 / 70.2 / 54.1

(vehix.com)

Not that the above matters much considering a mechanical LSD is going to be located in the rear axle.
 
  #9  
Old 07-25-2008, 05:24 PM
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still looks like the package to have is the base S with the JCW package and to then add bits and pieces a la cart.

the uprated power just simply does not justify the added cost, IMO.
 
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Old 07-25-2008, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by key_lime_hamster View Post
still looks like the package to have is the base S with the JCW package and to then add bits and pieces a la cart.

the uprated power just simply does not justify the added cost, IMO.
The brakes alone are $2k+ to add aftermarket....add in the exhaust, upgraded clutch, ECU tune, wheels, labor, and you come up with a lot more than the $6500 difference
 
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by key_lime_hamster View Post
.....has anyone else read this already?

http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/04/...tory-jcw-mini/



'be real interested when laptime comparisons among the MCS, MCS JCW stage I and the JCW car come out.
Similar article from the same place:

Why the JCW Factory MINI will not get LSD.



http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/06/...l-not-get-lsd/
 
  #12  
Old 07-28-2008, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by emperor91108 View Post
Similar article from the same place:

Why the JCW Factory MINI will not get LSD.



http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/06/...l-not-get-lsd/
Interesting. So I guess then the guys did their homework and compared both the LSD and the EDLC to see which one was better.
 
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:18 PM
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Having driven a new JCW with the eLSD...I gotta say, it works pretty darn good. I'd almost say that it felt better than my factory LSD.

It works seemlessly and gets the power down effectively. Power was not interrupted either. I'd like to spend more time with it though, but from my initial drive, I was not dissapointed.
 
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:51 PM
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You'd figure in a good length race around a twisty track, the brakes must heat up something good. But I guess if the Porsches run this technology in the REAR wheels, it has to be good enough for the front wheel drive Minis.
 
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:16 PM
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I've said it before I'll say it again... the Challenge Race Car which MINI is so eager to compare the Factory JCWs to has mechanical LSD...!
 
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Old 07-30-2008, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SmokeM View Post
You'd figure in a good length race around a twisty track, the brakes must heat up something good. But I guess if the Porsches run this technology in the REAR wheels, it has to be good enough for the front wheel drive Minis.

Not necessarily. There are just as many people complaining about the Porsche ediff as there are about the MINI ediff. Just because Porsche does it doesn't necessarily means its right, or right for the MINI....
 
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Old 11-19-2008, 03:57 PM
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The factory mechanical LSD on the regular MCS is a joke, up to 35% power transfer, .... up to %35
on wet slippery roads it spins & plows like every other open differential fwd
After test driving one of the new JCW's, I'm looking forward to the eLSD when we trade our Mini in for a JCW come spring.
If you're going to track your Mini, you'll want to wait for the aftermarket to catch up with a real mechanical LSD option
 
  #18  
Old 11-20-2008, 08:40 AM
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I've had my 2009 JCW for 3 weeks now. I've not had it on the track but I've been impressed with the ediff approach so far. The big question asked above is how it will fare on an extended track run or in racing. I still have questions about that. But the JCW overall is so cool I'm still digesting the new level of daily driving fun. I love this car!!!!
 
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:14 PM
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Well, the LSD may not be perfect, and not as good as a Quaif, but I can tell you from experience it makes a HUGE difference on the track.

And the ediff is getting less than stellar reviews on the track with the 135i's, so much so that one driver I spoke to definitely was going to put a mechanical LSD on his 135i as soon as possible. I don't have enough experience with the ediff yet, but with limited runs with it, I'd take the mechanical LSD. The ediff isn't predictable, but I know exactly what I'm going to get with my outdated mechanical LSD.....
 
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:38 PM
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So is this system the JCW has and electronic limited slip(i didn't think it was), if not is it basically like souped up DSC then, which ultimately will reduce the power to the ground by simply cutting power or just braking a spinning wheel??
 
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:40 PM
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eLSD is supposed to brake the spinning wheel, which would then transfer the power to the wheel that has traction. It is just a supercharged version of DSC and BMW (just like any other manufacturer) is going to tune it erring on the side of safety.

I don't doubt that the mechanical LSD improves cornering and power distribution on a smooth dry track, during my summer drives it cornered like a ****...
but unlike a real/traditional LSD it's completely useless when you hit a slippery patch and will not transfer ANY power, (up to)%30 of 0 traction = 0 traction

Is the mechanical LSD for $500 on the regular MCS a good deal ? sure, but are you going to miss it on the JCW ? unlikely. Anyone who's really serious about track times/max performance is going to be tearing into the trans & replacing the diff regardless.

I'm curious to know if the new Mini control modules have been lo-jacked to detect modifications like BMW did with the 1 series last spring. It'd be nice to see the DSC hacked on the R56/JCW.
 
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Old 12-05-2008, 11:37 PM
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So, with this E-LSD on the JCW, whats going to happen if you install a REAL LSD?

Is it going to freak out the E-LSD or will it work seamlessly with the aftermarket LSD?

Also, I wonder if an aftermarket LSD made for an R56 will also fit in a JCW or if its a different fit.

Can you disable the E-LSD?

I know, these are questions that possibly noone will know the answers to since the car is so new. I would ask my dealer, but, they seem to be a bit irritated at any question other than simple ones. lol
 
  #23  
Old 12-06-2008, 09:11 PM
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some owners, drivers or mechanics of the MINI Challenge Race car could probably answer...

I'm still not sure if E-LSD only works when all traction control is off, or if it's still available along with DTC & standard traction active. All the literature & reviews makes it seem like you only have E-LSD once you turn all traction control off, but I could swear I've felt traction shifting from one wheel to the other when in DTC.
 

Last edited by minim8o; 12-06-2008 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:29 AM
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Are there any more real world driving impressions of the JCW with the E-LSD? Is it "just as good" as a regular LSD?

I am considering going with an S model instead of the JCW due to the fact that the LSD is not available.
 
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:11 AM
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Having an R56 MCS w/ the "mechanical" LSD, I can tell you it's a joke, anything less than ideal conditions (eg. wet roads or snowy roads) and I'm back to the 1 tire spin & plow. The factory unit is nothing like a traditional LSD, having zero lockup, it gives only a maximum 30% transfer, and 30% of zero is still zero.

Having test driven the JCW as well, it's much better on the street, but I can't comment on how it holds up on the track.

Ideally you'd fit a real mechanical LSD to either car, but that's a several thousand dollar cost and will void your warranty. The JCW may not even need it.
 

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