Hey all,

I'm in the middle of a project in which I have installed a peltier devise with the cold part of the heatsink mounted in my windshield washer resevoir, and am using it to chill the water/alcohol mixture below freezing in order to better cool the intercooler when needed.

I am into it about 30 bucks, and have already hooked up the rear washer jet to some misters from home depot and have them mounted above the intercooler. Gone are the hot day, dog slow green light starts from supercharger heatsoak. It really makes a difference on hot days!

Fyi, I have mounted a switch in the gas pedal, so that full throttle turns the pump on, and well as a dash mounted switch to be used as needed.


My next 'idea' was to install a chiller into the washer tank to get the fluid below freezing (which is possible with the alcohol in it). I'm hoping for good results.


I just cant find a switched power supply in the engine compartment for the peltier device. It's a 5amp draw if that helps any. Thanks so much for any info and i'll post a more descriptive write up with pictures when done to explain my "experiment"


If everything works as planned, i may have a great mod the community may be interested in!

 

why not mount the peltier device directly to the intercooler?

scott

 

The reason being this

 

Trust me, I thought of that. The reason it wouldnt work is because the peltier has a 45w draw, and isn't all that efficient. One would need to mount numerous peltiers with way too much draw from the alternator to deal with cooling the intake charge in real time.

I thought, what if we could use the peltier to reserve the cooling power, for use when truly needed??

I had originally been interested in the cryO2 cooling systems, but didn't like the fact that they were limited to a tank of c02 which needed refilling, and had limited use time.

I also didn't like the cost associated with those systems. My system will chill the 1/2 gallon of fluid as I drive. The beauty of it is, the cooling will start when I start the car, however I wont be dealing with heatsoak for a while. So, I wont be asking a measly 45w peltier to cool the real time charge, it will be used and stored for full throttle and as needed (stop light heat soak) etc,

Steve

 

Hate to be a wet blanket but if my understanding is correct - I can't help but to be skeptical about this. The main benefit of the water comes from the evaporative cooling. Of itself, the incremental increase in lowering the temp of the fluid would be small. Plus the energy for the peltier device is not free - it is coming in as an electrical load in the engine and, as such, will net zero or less.

 

But the load on the engine is happening at a very small draw, constantly. Out of the car, my peltier setup cooled 1/2 gallon of water/alcohol mix 10 degrees in about 10 minutes, and was still dropping. so, when I spray the intercooler with chilled water, it will absorb much more heat from the intercooler than ambient temp water (of which my seat of the pants can feel) It makes my heat soaked car run in 90f weather like it is 60f outside.

Now, If I were looking for realtime gains across the board, there is a finite time till my resevoir of chilled liquid is depleted. At that point, it is agreed that you are right and there will be a loss.

If I were chilling only the water volume right before it was sprayed, that too would create a negative return. I am banking the chilled water for when I want to get away from a red light turned green without any heat soak, or for when I full throttle it.

I dont full throttle it everywhere I go, I just want the chilling (as needed).

Yes, I am giving up a small amount of power as I drive around chilling this liquid, but that is a worthwhile tradeoff to having the choice to eliminate heatsoak as I see fit.

 

I don't understand how 90f water could cool an intercooler just as well or better than water that is, say 35? Does that make my idea a bit more understandable? I'm not a chemist, but If you burned your hand and I gave you two buckets of water to dunk it in (one being ice cold, the other tepid) which would feel better and take more heat from your hand, more quickly?

 

One other idea.

with the idea that since we are drawing power( from the alt>engine) to cool the intercooler to make more power(or reduce losses) through a colder intake charge, we would net a loss.

But, wouldn't using that same basic theory hold true with using engine power to run a supercharger? WHy is it that there is no loss, only gain? We are using power from the motor directly, to essentially increase the number of oxygen molecules in the combustion chamber.

That is what I am hoping to do as well, on a smaller scale, and with a stored power system so that I can unleash my extra oxygen molecules through a cooler charge as needed.

 

not a bad idea....but most of the cooling effect comes from the phase change of the water-meth to a vapor. Not a bad way to maximize sprayer...
The ultimate is the cryo CO2 system, shooting liquid carbon dioxide from a tank (refilled from fire extinguisher supply houses).
A cold block, often used in liquid computer cooling might make a good cold sink to use to store the cold!! The one NEG is a peliter chip is limited to about 40F below the ambient temp...so be sure to mount the peltier someplace with good airflow!!
One other thought....
Look out for over-spraying....I know of one individual personally that had a liquid spray system...was great till he tried to swap out his injectors..the excess fluid drips, and can corrode them. He then switched to the above mentioned co2 system.

 

Best wishes, but I don't agree. Another negative effect is with ith introduction of alcohol. The specific heat of vaporization of water is about 2299 J/ kg - alcohol is about half that, depending on which alcohol. As such, for every incremental addition of alcohol added there is a net loss in the primary heat removal, the vaporization of water. Water changing state is doing the job that you perceive, is my guess. A change to lower temp water will give a tiny increase and changing to a water/alcohol mix will will be a net step backwards.

 

question: with your sprayer, are you not worried about blowing up your IC on a hot day?

i remember the experiment from grade school, where the teacher heated up an aluminum can, then dunked it in cold water: BAM! the can imploded! Cannot something similar happen to an aluminum intercooler? except, maybe it can Explode?

my boss (worked for Ford, so hes a car guy) was with his friend one day, who did just this: a water sprayer on his IC. hot day + cold water = popped IC! the IC just burst from the extreme and sudden temperature inversion.

I was all setup to do this mod (used an old windshield sprayer motor from my celica, hoses, switch, ect) until i heard the popped IC story from my boss....

 

I appreciate the info, really I do! However, my thoughts were this: if I could even get my peltier setup to chill a small volume of water/alcohol to say, right about freezing it wouldn't be close to the =80f of the co2 sprayer setups that are out there. Are there different physics at work with chilled water versus co2 spray?

Steve

 

Both utilizes a liquid that is sprayed on the ic...
the liquid co2 boils, and evoprates, the water or water/meth boils/evoprates (mostly, excress drips off).
In both the phase change of the liquid asorbed the heat of the sc, getting rid of heat soak...
Have not heard of anybody blowing up an ic...
Alta even sold a kit....but was so easy to diy a homebrew, most folks made their own....many folks didthis mod, but was kinda a pain to activate manually....

 

might be late on this topic...but why not save the cash for a aqua mist kit and do it the right way.

cant wait to start working on my r53 come nov. mist is first to get put in.