Man this Hydra EMS is mind blowing. I cannot wait to see Alta's dyno numbers once all of the bugs are out.

 

In the interests of full disclosure, I'm someone who drove to Maryland for a full LDG tune.

That being said, could anyone explain why the Hydra is so much better?

In other words, how can it maximize afr, whp, and torque in a way that a custom tune directly in the ecu cannot?

I ask because the LDG tune added 17 whp on top of what I was getting with an (expensively) custom-tuned Unichip. I'll confess I had thought that was pretty good.

Of course it was a fraction of the cost of the Hydra with tuning. So for the extra money, there must be some significant advantages I'm missing.

 

The stock R53 ECU is designed to run as a supercharged car, and thus has limited mapping and coding for that setup. The Hydra allows for practically any configuration; thus, a de-supercharged and single turbo R53's is a perfect candidate for the Hydra as the stock ECU can't fully control the situation safely.

Furthermore, the stock ECU can't control a boost with an electronic selenoid, nor does it do anti-lag, two step rev limit, closed loop wideband autotuning for all load vs. RPM points, coolant temp spark and fuel trim adjustment, idle speed adjustment, a bunch of assignable I/O channels for stuff like NOS or Meth injection, and a wad of other adjustable trims and adjustments the stock ECU locks out from people that have the Dimsport software that LDG [among others] use. Basically, more features than most of us will need or ever use.

 

Thanks, Ryephile!

So would you describe the Hydra as a sort of highly evolved piggy-back when used with our SC cars?

 

Lets say in the end, a "tune" is a tune. Meaning, you can get the same results with a proper tune. But how you get there is the difference. In the world of tuning cars, reflashes and standalones are what people have to choose from. Boost settings, timing numbers, AFR's..... if the same between the 2 are going to get the same results.

But with piggy backs, there is only so much you can do. Redline can't be changed, you cant change the TPS stuff, or add flat foot shifting, launch control, or add boost control and some of those things.

The added cost also allows for anyone to tune the car. Where a unichip, or flash isn't something any professional tuner can do. They need special tools, and knowlege of how to do that. Also in the Mini world, there are a lot of DIYers and tinkers who might like to learn how to tune their car.

The Hydra isn't for every customer. Cost, functions, tunabilty all play into what someone might want. Some guys are fine with an off the shelf reflash that gets 5WHP gain. Some guys want a lot more, and custom tuning. THat is where the Hydra comes into play!

 

Wow 3 post at the same time!

Ryephile,
Great explanation!

 

You're welcome hornguys and Jeff! To answer hornguys question: No, the Hydra is a "standalone" ECU, in that it is the only piece of hardware controlling fuel, spark, and boost [for turbo if you do EBC]. The only thing the stock ECU does from then on is send coolant temp and RPM figures to the dashboard over CAN bus, so you can keep your stock dashboard while running the Hydra.

 

My brain always hurts after reading Ryan's posts. Thanks for the lesson, man.

 

I agree but great info Ryan.

Longboard

 

Custom O.E tuning yields way more than 5hp. It is the best option for street vehicles. All the cars that I build for the race track have aftermarket ecu systems like Autronics or Motec. This is because of the features that you mention. What they don't have are the required OBD2 regime or integration with other on board safety and convenience features which are necessary for legal operation on the street. As far as ease of tuning, the after market systems are no easier to tune properly than the O.E. systems. Since the after market system manufactures are making their money on the hardware, they give the software away and this easy access to information creates the illusion that a good result will be easy as well. This is hardly ever the case.
I'm not knocking the idea of replacing the stock ecu for an after market system especially in highly modded cars as often times it's the only way to make the car run proerly. Don't knock O.E. tuning just because you don't do it.

 

I don't think he was actually nocking custom tune work. I think Jeff was trying to illustrate the major differences as far as customizability (if that is a word) between a tune and a standalone. I think other than the bleeding edge of performance nutz, a LDG type custom tune is the way to go especially considering the issues of emmisions and OBDII compatibility....FWIW

 

Once I trimmed out John's defensive marketing, this is the meat of his post:

We're in agreement here.

 

Post #85 is the reason I like people like Jeff and companies like Alta.

Longboard

 

Edit

 

What in particular causes you to feel that way?

Was it untrue?

Or flaming?

Or knocking another vendor?

 

I only said 5WHP, as the one or two graphs i have seen of results from a reflash don't show much more than that. BUt these are off the shelf flashes. I just have never seen proof of more than that. But custom tunes yes, there have been a few.

OBD functions are important to alot of people, and yes the Hydra does away with that. BUt like i said the they hydra and reflash are for 2 differnt types of customers.

We market this to off-road customers, or track guys for that reason. This is not a solution for street driven, CARB approved, EPA compliant cars, even though some people will be using it for that. But all in all, an OE flash isn't legal either. Even though it does give the car OBD functions, you are still in violation of EPA laws (Its illegal to remove or modify emissions control devices). As are we, but we don't deny that.

By no means am i knocking Refashes. Come SEMA time this year, you will see why we don't knock them. But it comes down to how they are programed. All the back to back runs i have seen don't show gains like we have started to see with the hydra.

There is always going to be room for reflashes and standalones. They have both gotten along together since the dawn of import performace and they will continue to for a long time.

 

but I thought ALL of us were crazy.

Count me in for this Hydra phenomenon.

 

blissfull,
I just didn't want to say it
We are all crazy, or we would be driving Priu's, or is it Pri??

 

Well I know I'm crazy. What would the world be without us crazy Mini drivers.

Oh,, and by the way, got your red intake hose, looks niceeeee, thank you. I actualy had to call you guys back just to make sure it was red since someone took it down as black, but got that taken care of and came nicely packaged.

 

any new news on this project?

 

Longboard

 

I would like to bump this to the top for a few reasons...
I would love to hear any feadback from users and their take on this. Yes, I know that Alta and Ryephile explained this very well.
I would love to see any dynos with this unit and anything else that would convince me of running this EMS.
Thanks guys and I cannot wait to see the info

 

BUMP since now that SEMA has passed there should be new info on why Alta doesn't knock reflashes lol...

 

Well, we just dynoed our GP with the Hydra, and the results are somewhat expected. This was tuned and installed on a GP with our intake and catback exhaust. We did a big test and tune on the Unichip first, and got great gains over the stock ECU programming. The only real difference with the Hydra is that we get more low end power (Because we are controlling the TB), and on average 1-2HP everywhere else. But this isn't enough to say its way way better. Where the Hydra comes into play is in the low end, and being able to rev beyond the factor redline. Being able to go to 7500RPM can net about 15WHP more. That is where it wins. Where the Hydra really comes into play is on those guys that have crazy head packages, Twincharge kits, turbo only packages, bigger Superchargers, large injector changes.....


For 95% of the customers looking for engine management, the Unichip is the perfect solution. Installs easily, we have lots of maps for different combinations, and the end user doesn't have to worry about tuning the car.

But for those 5% of Crazy Minis guys the Hydra can do so much, and if you are a tuner, this the best tuner tool available to the Mini world! Generally we have a 2 week waiting period after an order, but we have 2 in stock at the moment!

 

So how many codes is the engine throwing now?