I get mine from a performance shop in the next town. $31/ 5 gallon pail.

you can go to vpracefuels.com and they will provide you with a vendor in your local. An it sure is cheaper than shipping boost juice...

 

can be found at this link...

http://www.localb100.com/testbatch/buyingmethanol/

Matt

 

I used to use Heat as a booster when I was using washer fluid...

I wonder where they get meth for $2/gallon?

 

Corrosion is not an issue at all.
In turn it is not necessary to add aditional lube to the mixture. Any type of lube you would be adding will be a lower octane than the fuel and would hurt performance some. With more than 150K on WI cars, i have never seen any bad from running it. But lots of good things of course. The nicest thing is its cleaning effect. It keeps the pistons clean, valves clean, and anything in its path.

Meth is very corrosive to aluminum, but it is still not a problem. Methonal just left sitting there is bad, but other than that, during combustion, and on boost, the meth doesn't really sit on the manifolds and what not.

Tap water is a big no no. Too much crap in it that can build up on pistons, and valves and what not. Distilled is 100% necessary!

Places to buy Meth. Well you have the street corner
or paint stores, or you local petroleum resellers sell it. Around here there are 3 big companies that distribute gasoline, and oil and they carry it.

Someone mentioned how much they would be using compared to fuel. Because you only use this when on boost, its not as much as you might think. With the fuel flow of the Mini, i would be very surprised if you filled up every other month. More like every 4 months. This is with a 1 gallon, size tank.

This is sure a fast moving thread!

 

I still haven't gone through 3 gal in 3 months. Not even one gal. Of course I have a small injector.

 

Thanks guys.
Are you losing that 10WHP with straight water or a 50/50 mix? If you increase the meth ratio, will that decrease the HP lost?
Is there an optimum water/meth ratio without being tuned for it?

 

PARTSMAN - I havent had time to get to my usual dyno to see if I am loosing hp - although going from 12.6 to 11.9 I would imagine I would loose a small percentage - but at the same time it feels like (and according to my datalogging) arent seeing as much retardation going on - so in the name of safety and not losing power when it gets hot - it may be a wash.

I just cant keep my foot out of mine I have gone through 2 gallons in about 500 miles...

 

If you think they will laugh, find out where they live so I can send them a greeting

 

That's more like I was thinking. Most people that run WI think you need more. A good high presure low volume shot should do the trick.

Street corner meth might lead to jail.

We'll see how Sid makes out at the local propane dealer. We would buy 55 gal drums of VP from the local dealer no problem. They even gave us a pump ( they don't last long with meth - better to lay the drum on its side in a cradle with a valve, trust me, we did this for 10 years ).

Tampa, actualy $7 a gallon is pretty good. If you were to buy it at the local dirt track it would be closer to $10 & I know they are paying about $4.75 in the big can.

 

In regards to the consumption rate, my experience with my driving style is that a 7 quart solution will last me roughly 3 fuel tank full Given that I can't accurately monitor the actual percentage of WI use during my excursions past 10psi and for how long, this is just a rough guess. I consider myself a moderate driver on the streets (no stop light racer here)...ok...there's that 1-2% of the time when I have rejoined the "Ton Up" club but no one saw me do that so it didn't happen

At the Dragon or the track, the consumption rate will definitely sky rocket as the WI will be in full duty cycle 99% of the time...

 

yeah, what Sid said! That almost mimicks my use 100%.

 

How much fluid does the windshield tank hold? I would love to not have to put a tank in my boot.

If I have to add a tank I was thinking of placing it under the car in the rear and running the filler into the battery box. I was thinking of using a little (in size) Deka battery to make room for the filler tube.

Any ideas would be great. This project is still an "idea" at this point.

Longboard

 

My guess is the washer bottle is too small for serious use...ok for street driving but I bet you'll run out half way through a Dragon run running at 100% duty cycle...I use the washer tank for DFIC external sprayer which only see occasional use in hot summer days at the stop light...

I tried reeeeeeeeeellly hard to find room for my WI tank under my bonnet but sad to say...there's no more vacancy under there...

 

I would think maybe a gallon. I'm guessing the washer pump would be needed to prime the WI pump, since the washer pump and tank outlet is so low. Maybe a check valve in the line?

 

"I tried reeeeeeeeeellly hard to find room for my WI tank under my bonnet but sad to say...there's no more vacancy under there..."

There's plenty of room for a balogna sandwich & a small 7up, not including ice. What were you thinking?????

A gallon is a good size, perfect size. I would use 2 gallons per blue bottle & there's no way a DD could use any where close to that.

A check valve close to the tank or better yet in the tank if you want to use the washer pump.

 

PARTSMAN,
Will you loose power with more meth? Yes, but maybe not as much. But the more you add the more fuel you have to remove. Then when your system fails, or something causes a change in the amount of delivered meth, your can can run very lean. So saftey features have to be setup.

Consumption:
Lets use this as an extreme example using the PWI-1. Track day use. The car will be in the 4000-7000RPM band most of the time. The normal injector DC the injectors see ranges from 70%-95% (15% pulley car). Lets use 80% DC as the average DC the injectors see. So the PWI-1 will inject 80% of the nozzles flow, on average. Using the proper sized nozzle, and the 10-15% Water/Fuel mixture, you are going to be delivering an average of 173cc-min of your mixture. Say you have 15min sessions, and only 10mins of the session you are actually on boost using the WI. You will be using .4 gallons of your mixture. This is of corse an average. If you have the simpler systems that deliver a fixed amount of water, the consumption will go up.

So 1-2 gallons, like Steve suggested is plenty.

 

So, you're still seeing timing retard with the WI?
You're right, it may be a wash. I am also thinking the HP lost will not be significant enough to outweigh the gains in cooling the charge.


I do plan on tuning my car, but not for the meth. I'll play it safe like Sid and Tampa do, so if anything happens with the WI system, I'll be ok.
Thanks for the info.

 

This is where it gets iffy. The meth is 100ron+ but has a much lower burn number so you would loose power given the right conditions, which is "too much is enough" thinking. The calculation needed for the meth is not realy in the mix if you were to use 100% meth, but how much. Your figure is a good example, 173cc-min, for a mix.
Lets look at very small number, 50cc 100% meth-min, no mix, high presure vapor. Injector placement would be important but not as critical as the vapor shape & effect on the AF charge. Sounds like a bomb.... Yes? At full boost you should get a good burn & with the added density more power. The meth will burn & an SC motor is a great platform for this application. Racing Briggs kart motors using straight meth with just a jet change made more power than gas, however this is a very simplified example & dosen't really apply to an A motor ( you would use a jet around 2x Gas & to really get power, a cam extra stock & shaved head are necessary), an example non the less. With a mix the meth does burn, "Burn Water", was a phrase used with just water. It did have merit & still does. Today WI means more & has the potential of being much more, it's the direction for the more part that needs looking at.

A little more coal for the fire?

 

This is a good example of how much.

I don't think there is any possibility that there is a tune for methonol & if there was you would need a whole slew of changes. The car would run on E85, with issues, but that's where it ends. The sensors that run the car can bareley cope with stock

The gains in cooling can only be seen as an average percentage given different driving conditions. Then adding meth to the equation changes everything. If you think in terms as a street application, no race, the how & why will come to you. The race application is easy = more IS usualy better.

Have to leave on a business trip for a week, so you guys better come up with some ideas or else....

 

I was referring to this statement from ALTA2...
"But the more you add the more fuel you have to remove."

I should have been more clear, Steve. I'm not talking about tuning to run methanol as a fuel, but tuning to introduce more meth to reduce HP loss.

Have a safe trip.

 

does anyone really use their glove box?

 

We're on the same page. For this brain, it's hard to relate in print. There is no tune that will compensate for the meth. The ECU would, most likely, see a couple of numbers higher on the rich side & keep some timing with the amount of meth used for this application ( it's important to remember that the meth is a fuel at a much lower burn & it has 2 jobs - cooling & octane ). ALTA2 is correct when viewing the WI in its present use. Tuning to introduce the meth will need to be done with a WB or a good EGT gauge. As long as the ECU doesen't see too much altered AF & IAT is good, no SEL, we're good to go. Another careful balence.
The best example I can come up with is the power made with my NOS car. With the bottle it's an A, not NA. With the meth up to 80% & water I can run more bottle. All of this is mechanical and running in a very narrow range 6500 to 8800 ( the WI comes on at 3/4 throttle - the bottle with a button ). Not the ideal DD but it's pretty streetable. The point is that the meth will burn with gasoline, even though there's a bottle involved in this example. The Mini has a blower, there's more reliability there. The NOS car system took time to get right, lots of trial & error. I think there's more left that can be done but how quickly do you want to go directly to jail?

And thanks for the good wish...

 

Glove box? The thing that has all the crap in it? You can put a soda on the door thing? Can it really be used to put gloves in? I think mine is air conditioned. That's got to be a plus. Air conditioned crap. What a concept. I can hand the registration to the policeman & it will have a pleasent cool temp. Boy, oh boy, he'll be impressed. I would be.

Hey Herbie thanks for the tip. The bologna is nice and flat should be a good fit & it stacks nicely, the small 7up might be a problem.

 

Not a bad idea. But I do need a little storage.

I talked to to Alta today. If you have the cold weather package with the headlight washers the tank holds about 2 gallons as PARTSMAN said. This to me is the perfect solution.

They also said you won't or shouldn't need the washer pump to prime the WI pump. As long as you place the pump close. It's all starting to sound better to me. I wonder how much room there is under or around the stock tank.

I'm looking forward to Alta's testing. I think this will help everyone.

Longboard

 

Really? I don't have cold package but have Xenon washers...is that a different tank? If so, which side is this bottle on?