As always, good, helpful info Phil, thank you.

I would venture to guess that a healthy portion of the engine bay heat, particulary near the airbox, is from the header. Instead of being in defensive mod by protecting the airbox, as I have said before... first go on the offensive, and attack the heat at its source. For me, coating the header made for a nice difference; and really should be done first. If you have, I apologize.

 

Uhhhh....ahem....myself and other have discussed this very design here before.
I've actually done it using aluiminized fiber matt.

2 issues I know of right off.

1. You will be trapping heat around the fuel rail...not good

2. Most pertitnent to those non DFIC folks that think this will help. This will limit exit flow from the IC. Unless this unit is vacuum formed to follow the contours of the components under the IC it will take up space. Space more effectively used for exiting gasses than thermal insulation. Part 2 of that will be once again that heat is trapped in those components that may need cooling. For instance. Isolating the heat of the radiator hose is a double edged knife. I know, I tested this. Yes you will keep the heat from rising to the IC but you will also trap the heat next to the intake runner. Even the cheaper fiber I used made a measureable difference in heat trapped in this area.
The easy solution ( and please feel free to "borrow" the idea ) is to open the already available indent used for the Coopers. This I have not tested but if air flow is properly isolated it will help for sure.
Ducted properly this cool quiute a bit of area.

Do not duct this air under the TMIC style IC. It actually creates a shear under the IC and lowers it's efficiency a lot. Trust me on this one

 

Been there, done that

Similar results. That post being pre insulation days but have found the measurements to be almost identical with the insulation in place except of course rise time for heat inside the HDI box.

 

Sorry, obehave, but what is the "indent used for the Coopers"?

cheers, and thanks for your insight on this matter, as always!

 

Thanks for the link--it makes for an interesting read, especially your first posts around 2003 with the numbers. This morning again I noticed the fast return of the airbox temps to ambient. Actually they recover much faster after a stop than the IC-out temperatures do (a reduction of 30F in the same time that core-out temps fell by 20F) which suggests to me that the airbox is not a critical area for further research, development or expenditures (once you have a CAI, that is.)

I am going to put the VGS back in, since the flat spot/stumble on my car is particularly pronounced and very annoying. It might cost me 20F but it increases the drivability of the car in traffic substantially.

 

Right in the center of the radiator support. Under the green sticker.

 

Funny, I was thinking of cutting a slot in that area with a duct under the DFIC diverter to allow air to flow under the IC.

 

Thanks.
Fun stuff and nice to see you get basically the same results. Didn't have the IC temp stuff back then.
I used to depend on Andy for all that stuff. Now that he isn't around any more I had to step up and try to learn this stuff myself.
My performance days were mainly back in the '70s so all this new fangled computer stuff...... ....

 

Even after obehave said:
"Do not duct this air under the TMIC style IC. It actually creates a shear under the IC and lowers it's efficiency a lot. Trust me on this one "

 

I think I'm gonna wire up a pair of 12V squirrel fans attached to the back, underside of the IC core, with a relay and switch. Pull the air through and then down between it and the firewall. I'd love to have some temp probes in place to test the effectiveness....I'd bet it would help with only a minimal 5-10amp draw.

 

Good point here regarding the use of our shield with other intercoolers. This will only work with front feeding intercoolers not TMIC.

As for the heating of the fuel rail that is a non issue with the Mini.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

Thanks Randy.

I'd like to know for sure there is enough air flow to keep that rail at at least it's current condition, which isn't all that great anyway.

Aerogel is way cool btw. I've watched some testing done with it.

 

I found this little unit:
http://cgi.ebay.com/DIGITAL-PANEL-TH...QQcmdZViewItem

I am using it to measure airbox temperatures and it's surprisingly accurate and fast in response for such an inexpensive unit. Self-contained power and no light, but it's easy to read in any light. You could buy a couple of these for general under-bonnet temperature readings, and move them around. Not for the IC but that's another, more expensive venture...

cheers,

 

I don't have a factory style TMIC.

 

What about using a/c pipe insulating tape on the fuel rail to keep line temps more stable?

 

My bad, just noticed the DFIC in your super sig

 

I've been waiting eagerly for M7's Aerogel insulation

 

I imagine that would work, how about running the fuel line into a "cool can"?

 

This has potential, especially when used with the DFIC diverter, since it keeps the air that would come in through that hole(s) flowing below and under the IC. No shear problems. Of course, my first question would be: if there's cold air available for cooling here, then why didn't BMW/MINI engineers open the holes up already?

 

More data from this morning. I reinstalled the VGS, since it really ameliorates the effect of my flat spot at 3200rpm or thereabouts. The car just pulls more consistently with the VGS. But the IATs went up again, just as Sid has shown. I'd say +10-20F higher than without the VGS.
Now, then, the question becomes: I'm gaining feel and better acceleration smoothness with the VGS, but I'm losing power with higher IATs...the old trade-off again. For commuting and around town, the IATs are horrific anyway, so a few +Fs is neither here nor there, but the flat spot is really annoying...
My mind's made up.
Or not

 

"Ameliorate"...now there's a word only a Dr would understand Maybe the VGS does "mollify" the flat spot in your case...

 

Perfect! I now modify to mollify the bad aspects, and ameliorate the good ones!

I'd wish the VGS didn't work so well on my car--but call it a quirk of the randomness that makes my car different to any other, there's no doubt it just pulls better with the darn VGS. Not more power, just a smoother application from low revs through the midband to redline. I'm going to have to put my thinking cap on to get those 20F back.

btw, again today, I was impressed with how "ambient" the airbox is--it's a festivus miracle!

 

The same reason they decided to close the holes in the hood support ( with the black plastic thinglets ).

The DFIC might benifet from the hole in the radiator shroud, but the OE piece???

 

More data, this time from the ScangaugeII and the OBDII. This instrument allows me to "measure" IATs, which presumably are taken from the intake manifold after the IC. I found that IATs are slightly lower than the IC-out temperatures, by 2-3F, sometimes much more.

I am also finding the "VGS- effect" to be a pretty consistent +10F.

My finding of the "ambient airbox" also appears consistent, even as temperatures rose to the 60s today in Albuquerque.

cheers,

 

Just an update as ambient temperatures rise.
Yesterday I was logging with my SGII running the following setup:
Really Big Hole scoop and FAD
Alta CAI, with top, modified to seal against FAD
CAI box insulated
Front air duct open
DFIC modified with external airfoils

Ambient was mid 70s (73-75F)
Constant run up modest incline, 70mph, 5th gear

Airbox +-1F of ambient
IATs +8F to +14F of ambient

All temperatures continue to show high variance across mixed driving conditions, however the Alta box top seems to reduce the variance in the airbox temperatures, without reducing them below what I measured when sealing against the bonnet.
Post SC temps continue to be high, as high as 250F under hard 6000rpm accelerations uphill while passing, but IC TE is very impressive. eg in this case IC out temp was 95F so TE as 88%!
Just imagine what Water-Meth injection could do to this!!

cheers,