Drivetrain IC Thermal Efficiency
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
I got the seals from Peter, Sid, early last week.
I'm sorry, but I don't really know the difference between closed and open cell foam, other than I used a lot of really airy stuff on my speakers and the foam I use on my car is very different. I'd say the speaker grille stuff was open cell, and the car stuff, closed cell. The density and "firmness" varies considerably, regardless of the open or closed cell feature.
cheers,
I'm sorry, but I don't really know the difference between closed and open cell foam, other than I used a lot of really airy stuff on my speakers and the foam I use on my car is very different. I'd say the speaker grille stuff was open cell, and the car stuff, closed cell. The density and "firmness" varies considerably, regardless of the open or closed cell feature.
cheers,
Closed cell foam
has a structure like soap bubbles. Each little bubble has a full wall, encasing a certain amount of air. This means that gasses can't easily flow though the structure, but the foams tend to be a bit stiffer, as each cell is like a little air-shock.
Open cell foams leave a web-like 3-d structure behind, but gas can move from one of the cells to another, as the cells aren't sealed. This means that each cell doesn't act like a little air-shock, and the foam will be easier to compress. BUT as mentioned earlier, the particular structure can let air permenate through it. The flow through the foam is a function of a lot of things, cell size, compression, path length etc, but it's possible to leak air through an open celled foam, hence the suggestion to seal the surface.
Matt
Open cell foams leave a web-like 3-d structure behind, but gas can move from one of the cells to another, as the cells aren't sealed. This means that each cell doesn't act like a little air-shock, and the foam will be easier to compress. BUT as mentioned earlier, the particular structure can let air permenate through it. The flow through the foam is a function of a lot of things, cell size, compression, path length etc, but it's possible to leak air through an open celled foam, hence the suggestion to seal the surface.
Matt
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
In another thread (MarioKart's thread about his black DFIC) rustyboy155 says:
My measurements just don't support this claim that the DFIC does not have heat soak. Now, all ICs suffer from some form of heat soak --- geez they are made of Aluminum which does transfer heat quite well---but I just can't believe this claim.
The real question is probably: which IC has the lowest heat rise (for given conditions in a given time) and which one has the fastest recovery (for given conditions)?
All the new thermal products being used here (ceramic coatings, thermal blankets, insulating tape, etc) work well on the stock IC and on horizontal flow ICs. But the question is about which works *better* not just if it works. I am pretty convinced my FAD works, but I can't claim it works miracles.
I don't believe the only measures of performance are dyno runs, or 40-60 times or constant speed TEs--there are way more things to enjoying a MINI than these things. I often just enjoy looking at my car from about 20ft away...
But I've had enough experience in the audio world to know that people are very poor measuring instruments, that "seat of the pants" is not a calibrated measure, that the placebo effect is incredibly strong.
In the end, of course, if running a DFIC makes your car run faster or better or cooler, then WTF, eh?
What always amazes me is how many people take their DFIC off for a weekend and put the OEM IC back on, and go for runs just to "feel the difference" -- in this case, presumably, such a perceptible drop in performance they have to turn around and come right back home...
enough of my LB rant.
I highly recommend the DFIC to anyone looking for a performance gain, especially if you live in a hot climate. I've noticed a dramatic difference in pickup in higher gears, and it's a consistent feeling, there is no heat soak to speak of.
The real question is probably: which IC has the lowest heat rise (for given conditions in a given time) and which one has the fastest recovery (for given conditions)?
All the new thermal products being used here (ceramic coatings, thermal blankets, insulating tape, etc) work well on the stock IC and on horizontal flow ICs. But the question is about which works *better* not just if it works. I am pretty convinced my FAD works, but I can't claim it works miracles.
I don't believe the only measures of performance are dyno runs, or 40-60 times or constant speed TEs--there are way more things to enjoying a MINI than these things. I often just enjoy looking at my car from about 20ft away...
But I've had enough experience in the audio world to know that people are very poor measuring instruments, that "seat of the pants" is not a calibrated measure, that the placebo effect is incredibly strong.
In the end, of course, if running a DFIC makes your car run faster or better or cooler, then WTF, eh?
What always amazes me is how many people take their DFIC off for a weekend and put the OEM IC back on, and go for runs just to "feel the difference" -- in this case, presumably, such a perceptible drop in performance they have to turn around and come right back home...
enough of my LB rant.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
In another thread (MarioKart's thread about his black DFIC) rustyboy155 says:
My measurements just don't support this claim that the DFIC does not have heat soak. Now, all ICs suffer from some form of heat soak --- geez they are made of Aluminum which does transfer heat quite well---but I just can't believe this claim.
The real question is probably: which IC has the lowest heat rise (for given conditions in a given time) and which one has the fastest recovery (for given conditions)?
All the new thermal products being used here (ceramic coatings, thermal blankets, insulating tape, etc) work well on the stock IC and on horizontal flow ICs. But the question is about which works *better* not just if it works. I am pretty convinced my FAD works, but I can't claim it works miracles.
I don't believe the only measures of performance are dyno runs, or 40-60 times or constant speed TEs--there are way more things to enjoying a MINI than these things. I often just enjoy looking at my car from about 20ft away...
But I've had enough experience in the audio world to know that people are very poor measuring instruments, that "seat of the pants" is not a calibrated measure, that the placebo effect is incredibly strong.
In the end, of course, if running a DFIC makes your car run faster or better or cooler, then WTF, eh?
What always amazes me is how many people take their DFIC off for a weekend and put the OEM IC back on, and go for runs just to "feel the difference" -- in this case, presumably, such a perceptible drop in performance they have to turn around and come right back home...
enough of my LB rant.
My measurements just don't support this claim that the DFIC does not have heat soak. Now, all ICs suffer from some form of heat soak --- geez they are made of Aluminum which does transfer heat quite well---but I just can't believe this claim.
The real question is probably: which IC has the lowest heat rise (for given conditions in a given time) and which one has the fastest recovery (for given conditions)?
All the new thermal products being used here (ceramic coatings, thermal blankets, insulating tape, etc) work well on the stock IC and on horizontal flow ICs. But the question is about which works *better* not just if it works. I am pretty convinced my FAD works, but I can't claim it works miracles.
I don't believe the only measures of performance are dyno runs, or 40-60 times or constant speed TEs--there are way more things to enjoying a MINI than these things. I often just enjoy looking at my car from about 20ft away...
But I've had enough experience in the audio world to know that people are very poor measuring instruments, that "seat of the pants" is not a calibrated measure, that the placebo effect is incredibly strong.
In the end, of course, if running a DFIC makes your car run faster or better or cooler, then WTF, eh?
What always amazes me is how many people take their DFIC off for a weekend and put the OEM IC back on, and go for runs just to "feel the difference" -- in this case, presumably, such a perceptible drop in performance they have to turn around and come right back home...
enough of my LB rant.
Carbs would get hot enough to boil all the gas out of them, vapor lock, in the BFI days.
"feel the difference", that's good. There are enough pure stock "S" cars I can drive so reality is what it's supose to be. If you feel the need to put the stock unit back on........
I'm still interested in your scoop result. I took the scoop out ( my car ) & ran around for a day, too much traffic to make any usefull #s but the bigger opening did seem to keep some things cooler, the SC for 1. I put a sensor on the SC, found -2f less in the same traffic, road, time, with +1f ambient. And no I'm not going to cut up the hood.
As of late it has not been much fun driving, way too many stupid drivers going to the mall, troling for parking spaces, double parking or just parking in a lane with the car locked and the cell phone people....... Hey, how about a car state, no speed limit, with street racing...... testing any time or place with or without mufflers, slicks or treads............ no cell phones......
Heres a link to Bell Intercoolers, Corky Bell wrote the book.http://www.bellintercoolers.com/page...AQ.html#FAQ_21
A few FAQS from the website
Are there other factors of flow loss, in the intercooler assembly, rather than just the core?Yes, entry into the intercooler inlet tank and the smoothness of the exit tank. The adjoining tube assemblies, their length, size and bend configurations are all part of the flow loss total.
If the boost is raised is it necessary to increase an otherwise proper intercooler?
Very seldom. While the loss through the intercooler is proportional to the flow (CFM) squared, unlikely the change will be of a magnitude that requires a bigger intercooler. If dramatic changes in flow are created, say 50%, then the flow loss would increase by 1.5 squared, or 2.25, and that would prove excessive thus strongly suggesting a larger intercooler
Are there any improvements that can be made to the system for improved efficiency?
Yes, several small factors influence the efficiency. A proper duct is probably the single most beneficial thing that can be done to an existing intercooler. Positioning in the main stream of ambient air is crucial. By comparison, a taped up intercooler with no ambient air flow will offer only about 20% efficiency.
And most important
What factors affect efficiency of an Air-to-Air Intercooler. This is a rapidly decreasing function. If the proper core size is used, then doubling it will definitely not double the efficiency. More likely, doubling the core would raise the efficiency about 5% and cost twice the necessary amount and add substantially to the weight.
Plate area: Plate Area (the sum of the Core-Plate Area which is exposed to the Atmosphere) is directly proportional to the frontal area and the thickness. Thickness, however, is a double-edged sword. With the greater thickness, the plate area increases but less ambient air can penetrate the thicker core to offer cooling.
Ambient air quantity: It is very important to insure that air coming in the snout of the car will actually go through the intercooler.
A few FAQS from the website
Are there other factors of flow loss, in the intercooler assembly, rather than just the core?Yes, entry into the intercooler inlet tank and the smoothness of the exit tank. The adjoining tube assemblies, their length, size and bend configurations are all part of the flow loss total.
If the boost is raised is it necessary to increase an otherwise proper intercooler?
Very seldom. While the loss through the intercooler is proportional to the flow (CFM) squared, unlikely the change will be of a magnitude that requires a bigger intercooler. If dramatic changes in flow are created, say 50%, then the flow loss would increase by 1.5 squared, or 2.25, and that would prove excessive thus strongly suggesting a larger intercooler
Are there any improvements that can be made to the system for improved efficiency?
Yes, several small factors influence the efficiency. A proper duct is probably the single most beneficial thing that can be done to an existing intercooler. Positioning in the main stream of ambient air is crucial. By comparison, a taped up intercooler with no ambient air flow will offer only about 20% efficiency.
And most important
What factors affect efficiency of an Air-to-Air Intercooler. This is a rapidly decreasing function. If the proper core size is used, then doubling it will definitely not double the efficiency. More likely, doubling the core would raise the efficiency about 5% and cost twice the necessary amount and add substantially to the weight.
Plate area: Plate Area (the sum of the Core-Plate Area which is exposed to the Atmosphere) is directly proportional to the frontal area and the thickness. Thickness, however, is a double-edged sword. With the greater thickness, the plate area increases but less ambient air can penetrate the thicker core to offer cooling.
Ambient air quantity: It is very important to insure that air coming in the snout of the car will actually go through the intercooler.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
Heres a link to Bell Intercoolers, Corky Bell wrote the book.http://www.bellintercoolers.com/page...AQ.html#FAQ_21
A few FAQS from the website
Are there other factors of flow loss, in the intercooler assembly, rather than just the core?Yes, entry into the intercooler inlet tank and the smoothness of the exit tank. The adjoining tube assemblies, their length, size and bend configurations are all part of the flow loss total.
If the boost is raised is it necessary to increase an otherwise proper intercooler?
Very seldom. While the loss through the intercooler is proportional to the flow (CFM) squared, unlikely the change will be of a magnitude that requires a bigger intercooler. If dramatic changes in flow are created, say 50%, then the flow loss would increase by 1.5 squared, or 2.25, and that would prove excessive thus strongly suggesting a larger intercooler
Are there any improvements that can be made to the system for improved efficiency?
Yes, several small factors influence the efficiency. A proper duct is probably the single most beneficial thing that can be done to an existing intercooler. Positioning in the main stream of ambient air is crucial. By comparison, a taped up intercooler with no ambient air flow will offer only about 20% efficiency.
And most important
What factors affect efficiency of an Air-to-Air Intercooler. This is a rapidly decreasing function. If the proper core size is used, then doubling it will definitely not double the efficiency. More likely, doubling the core would raise the efficiency about 5% and cost twice the necessary amount and add substantially to the weight.
Plate area: Plate Area (the sum of the Core-Plate Area which is exposed to the Atmosphere) is directly proportional to the frontal area and the thickness. Thickness, however, is a double-edged sword. With the greater thickness, the plate area increases but less ambient air can penetrate the thicker core to offer cooling.
Ambient air quantity: It is very important to insure that air coming in the snout of the car will actually go through the intercooler.
A few FAQS from the website
Are there other factors of flow loss, in the intercooler assembly, rather than just the core?Yes, entry into the intercooler inlet tank and the smoothness of the exit tank. The adjoining tube assemblies, their length, size and bend configurations are all part of the flow loss total.
If the boost is raised is it necessary to increase an otherwise proper intercooler?
Very seldom. While the loss through the intercooler is proportional to the flow (CFM) squared, unlikely the change will be of a magnitude that requires a bigger intercooler. If dramatic changes in flow are created, say 50%, then the flow loss would increase by 1.5 squared, or 2.25, and that would prove excessive thus strongly suggesting a larger intercooler
Are there any improvements that can be made to the system for improved efficiency?
Yes, several small factors influence the efficiency. A proper duct is probably the single most beneficial thing that can be done to an existing intercooler. Positioning in the main stream of ambient air is crucial. By comparison, a taped up intercooler with no ambient air flow will offer only about 20% efficiency.
And most important
What factors affect efficiency of an Air-to-Air Intercooler. This is a rapidly decreasing function. If the proper core size is used, then doubling it will definitely not double the efficiency. More likely, doubling the core would raise the efficiency about 5% and cost twice the necessary amount and add substantially to the weight.
Plate area: Plate Area (the sum of the Core-Plate Area which is exposed to the Atmosphere) is directly proportional to the frontal area and the thickness. Thickness, however, is a double-edged sword. With the greater thickness, the plate area increases but less ambient air can penetrate the thicker core to offer cooling.
Ambient air quantity: It is very important to insure that air coming in the snout of the car will actually go through the intercooler.
On the other hand, if underhood heat is controled properly, there is great benifit. Heat soak is the biggest issue. Better air flow, more air flow, would benifit all operating characteristics of the engine.
The IC design is key as to its efficency.
Size is a matter of design. Mass & density can be a problem with a large IC. Core flow as well as outside air collection & air flow are the key elements for a well functioning IC. A careful balance of core & exterior dencity, placement of the IC and the volume of required air would dictate the size.
These points have been discussed many times here on NAM. There have been many differing oppinions on how to get more, more is better. All have been of interest.
Thank you for a great post.
Steve
the main issue I see with OE is the exit. Just like with a motor, you need to get the air out if you want to be able to force more in. The core sits atop the motor and takes flow from a direction almost 90 degrees off it's axis, then has little room to move it out the back (thus the theory from which the direct flow designs were born). moving to a larger normal core, this certainly compounds the issue. I'd think you'd have as much gain with improving flow from the OE core as with swapping it for a larger normal core and not addressing this problem.
my comment comes from owning a Subaru Legacy GT for the last two years....they've got the TMIC design nailed down and the scoop is sealed to the angled core (both similar in size to the MCS), with a clear shot out the back between the firewall and the motor. apples and oranges, yes, but the theory is solid
my comment comes from owning a Subaru Legacy GT for the last two years....they've got the TMIC design nailed down and the scoop is sealed to the angled core (both similar in size to the MCS), with a clear shot out the back between the firewall and the motor. apples and oranges, yes, but the theory is solid
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
From: same as yesterday
I think once at speed the stock unit is probably fine especially with a better scoop, but when standing still the exit of the IC becomes the intake for hot engine bay air. I think this is where the DFIC will be better; slower heatsoak and better 'rebound' once moving again...
this is an awesome thread, lots of good info
this is an awesome thread, lots of good info
The stock IC is very, very light...
this means it talks less cooling air to bring it down in temp. None of the aftermarket ICs come anywhere close to the low mass per unit volume of the stock unit. Somthing to think about....
Matt
Matt
I think once at speed the stock unit is probably fine especially with a better scoop, but when standing still the exit of the IC becomes the intake for hot engine bay air. I think this is where the DFIC will be better; slower heatsoak and better 'rebound' once moving again...
this is an awesome thread, lots of good info
this is an awesome thread, lots of good info
While some feel there is a power gain in the DFIC, my position has been one of more pull consistency and by that I mean runs back to back. Since I live in Florida, I am permanently living with heatsoak - even parked
and perhaps that is why I don't feel a gain in power.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
the main issue I see with OE is the exit. Just like with a motor, you need to get the air out if you want to be able to force more in. The core sits atop the motor and takes flow from a direction almost 90 degrees off it's axis, then has little room to move it out the back (thus the theory from which the direct flow designs were born). moving to a larger normal core, this certainly compounds the issue. I'd think you'd have as much gain with improving flow from the OE core as with swapping it for a larger normal core and not addressing this problem.
my comment comes from owning a Subaru Legacy GT for the last two years....they've got the TMIC design nailed down and the scoop is sealed to the angled core (both similar in size to the MCS), with a clear shot out the back between the firewall and the motor. apples and oranges, yes, but the theory is solid
my comment comes from owning a Subaru Legacy GT for the last two years....they've got the TMIC design nailed down and the scoop is sealed to the angled core (both similar in size to the MCS), with a clear shot out the back between the firewall and the motor. apples and oranges, yes, but the theory is solid
When you have the hot GTI guy, rolling next to you, I'm not thinking, oh what's my IAT, it's showtime.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
Excellent new posts! Firstly, since MarioKart blew the whistle in his DFIC thread, and I talked with Peter of M7 yesterday, I suppose it's not bad of me to mention the engine blanket that M7 is coming out with designed to address the issue of heat rising from the engine at slow speeds/ stop-idle and cooking the IC. I am very excited to try this out!
Secondly, Matt raises a very good point that I was just thinking about this morning while messing around with the stock IC in my workshop--it's incredibly light, meaning the wall thickness has to be pretty small to achieve such a little weight. I am going to make a new diverter (entry and exit) for the stock IC just to see what if any differences there are. As I said previously, I've never actually read a report where someone removed a DFIC and reinstalled the stock IC *and took measurements*.
Time will tell...
Secondly, Matt raises a very good point that I was just thinking about this morning while messing around with the stock IC in my workshop--it's incredibly light, meaning the wall thickness has to be pretty small to achieve such a little weight. I am going to make a new diverter (entry and exit) for the stock IC just to see what if any differences there are. As I said previously, I've never actually read a report where someone removed a DFIC and reinstalled the stock IC *and took measurements*.
Time will tell...
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
Excellent new posts! Firstly, since MarioKart blew the whistle in his DFIC thread, and I talked with Peter of M7 yesterday, I suppose it's not bad of me to mention the engine blanket that M7 is coming out with designed to address the issue of heat rising from the engine at slow speeds/ stop-idle and cooking the IC. I am very excited to try this out!
Secondly, Matt raises a very good point that I was just thinking about this morning while messing around with the stock IC in my workshop--it's incredibly light, meaning the wall thickness has to be pretty small to achieve such a little weight. I am going to make a new diverter (entry and exit) for the stock IC just to see what if any differences there are. As I said previously, I've never actually read a report where someone removed a DFIC and reinstalled the stock IC *and took measurements*.
Time will tell...
Secondly, Matt raises a very good point that I was just thinking about this morning while messing around with the stock IC in my workshop--it's incredibly light, meaning the wall thickness has to be pretty small to achieve such a little weight. I am going to make a new diverter (entry and exit) for the stock IC just to see what if any differences there are. As I said previously, I've never actually read a report where someone removed a DFIC and reinstalled the stock IC *and took measurements*.
Time will tell...
I'm still interested in the V2 Alta & how it performs, recovery being most important. It would be nice to do a side by side with like cars, kinda M7 v Alta.
One thing to watch out for
almost more than rising heat, is the flow of the air post radiator. That's very warm air, and floods the engine compartement. While heat soak recovery from a standing stop is a good thing to go after, it's really only an issue for drag racers.
For most driving (other than start stop), I'd put more effort into managing the flow of hot air, rather than the rise of hot air.
Matt
For most driving (other than start stop), I'd put more effort into managing the flow of hot air, rather than the rise of hot air.
Matt
almost more than rising heat, is the flow of the air post radiator. That's very warm air, and floods the engine compartement. While heat soak recovery from a standing stop is a good thing to go after, it's really only an issue for drag racers.
For most driving (other than start stop), I'd put more effort into managing the flow of hot air, rather than the rise of hot air.
Matt
For most driving (other than start stop), I'd put more effort into managing the flow of hot air, rather than the rise of hot air.
Matt
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 0
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=85711
The fan controller mentioned there
uses the temp reading to turn on and off, not speed.
To do a speed based controller would be pretty easy. But you'd have to hack some wiring to get it to work.
Let me know if you're serious about that.
Matt
To do a speed based controller would be pretty easy. But you'd have to hack some wiring to get it to work.
Let me know if you're serious about that.
Matt
Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 2
From: los angeles
Thank you Dr.Phil....
So the cat's out of the bag...
After looking for the best heat insulator there is (after Vacuum) we
decided to use Aerogel which is a fantastic insulator, no let me refrase
that, it's amazing.
The M7 Aerogel Heat Shield is a hybrid product that will both reflect IR emission and also act as the best possible heat barrier.
Tests:
Controll surface: Aluminum surface heated from below start up temp
260º with a final temp of 390º.
Test Thermometer: Dwyer Instruments IR 450 non contact thermometer.
We started with the typical Aluminized fiberglass mat, we cut a 10"x10"
square layed it on the heated surface aluminized side down.
It literally took less then 30seconds and the mat reached 260º.
Next we added the M7 Aerogel Heat Shield I took some samles the first
5 minutes with no appreciable changes in temperature at the upper surface. So I left the mat sitting baking on the control surface for half an hour..... 170º on the top surface and 390º on the bottom of the mat.
The heat shield is specifically made for the DFIC and will cover the the
area from the front of the plastic radiator shroud (covering the radiator
hose) wich is a major source of heat all the way to the edge of the sparkplug tubes.Side to side it will cover more then the width of the intercooler.
Price: $99.00
Available: Very Soon
If you like to be on the waiting list for this item, please call us
and we will make sure to get one to you before Christmas.
Peter
Team M7
562-608-8123
So the cat's out of the bag...
After looking for the best heat insulator there is (after Vacuum) we
decided to use Aerogel which is a fantastic insulator, no let me refrase
that, it's amazing.
The M7 Aerogel Heat Shield is a hybrid product that will both reflect IR emission and also act as the best possible heat barrier.
Tests:
Controll surface: Aluminum surface heated from below start up temp
260º with a final temp of 390º.
Test Thermometer: Dwyer Instruments IR 450 non contact thermometer.
We started with the typical Aluminized fiberglass mat, we cut a 10"x10"
square layed it on the heated surface aluminized side down.
It literally took less then 30seconds and the mat reached 260º.
Next we added the M7 Aerogel Heat Shield I took some samles the first
5 minutes with no appreciable changes in temperature at the upper surface. So I left the mat sitting baking on the control surface for half an hour..... 170º on the top surface and 390º on the bottom of the mat.
The heat shield is specifically made for the DFIC and will cover the the
area from the front of the plastic radiator shroud (covering the radiator
hose) wich is a major source of heat all the way to the edge of the sparkplug tubes.Side to side it will cover more then the width of the intercooler.
Price: $99.00
Available: Very Soon
If you like to be on the waiting list for this item, please call us
and we will make sure to get one to you before Christmas.
Peter
Team M7
562-608-8123
Aerogel
is a web-like structure of SiO2, and can be made to arbitrary densities. I think it's discovery and use dates back to the 50s or 60s.
These are from Nasa.....
I've seen photos of pieces 3-4 feet in diameter that you can barely see. Should work well.
Matt
These are from Nasa.....
I've seen photos of pieces 3-4 feet in diameter that you can barely see. Should work well.
Matt
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
From: Cumming, GA
You should be known as Dr. Peter.
Looks like another m7 wallet biopsy coming up.
At least this one isn't in the hundreds or thousands...
No Fear Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 921
Likes: 0
From: Golden Central Coast Cali
M7 just doesn't disappoint.
Not "leg humping" M7 as some suggested recently, just recognizing that there are some vendors that keep us getting better abnd better and faster and faster.
Mine's on order (Thanks Peter) and I can't wait for the results.
Not "leg humping" M7 as some suggested recently, just recognizing that there are some vendors that keep us getting better abnd better and faster and faster.
Mine's on order (Thanks Peter) and I can't wait for the results.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
More data from this morning. I installed another thermal probe, this time in the airbox. Interesting results, but the highlights:
1. I have yet to test with the FAD closed, but at speed, the air in the airbox is at ambient. In traffic it's about 2F higher, which is within error I'm sure.
2. Sitting stopped causes the airbox temperatures to rise, to an observed max of +20F after 5 minutes. Airbox temps fall quickly to ambient once moving, but this might be important for those who drag race. Heat soak is not just an IC problem, but (as Matt has said all along) it a general problem under the bonnet.
I will be fabricating a top for my Alta CAI just to test if there's a difference, especially as I can insulate the top.
If this proves positive, I will have to figure out how to fit it to the FAD.
cheers,
1. I have yet to test with the FAD closed, but at speed, the air in the airbox is at ambient. In traffic it's about 2F higher, which is within error I'm sure.
2. Sitting stopped causes the airbox temperatures to rise, to an observed max of +20F after 5 minutes. Airbox temps fall quickly to ambient once moving, but this might be important for those who drag race. Heat soak is not just an IC problem, but (as Matt has said all along) it a general problem under the bonnet.
I will be fabricating a top for my Alta CAI just to test if there's a difference, especially as I can insulate the top.
If this proves positive, I will have to figure out how to fit it to the FAD.
cheers,