Woah. looks an M7 DFIC.. very similar looking in design

any word on cost or availability? i realize its just released this year at sema, but hey, wishful thinking

 

Oh no M7! Competition has arrived!

I can't wait to see some #'s for this unit...

 

the prototype of this unit was tested long ago! And while it looks like the DFIC they have very different design parameters. The Alta prototype (I haven't tested a production version) had a much lower pressure drop but worse thermal efficiency. With good gas, it made over some good HP on my car.

But I"m sure Jeff took my results and made some changes to his design, so I don't know exacty how well the production version works. FWIW, there is a very long thread on all this stuff.... I think I've surpressed it!

Matt

 

MSRP for the new intercooler will be $759.99. It is available from our shop for $721.99. Technical specs will be available very soon.

Alta Intercooler V. 2.0

 

Anybody - What is the position of the CARB on aftermarket IC equipment? Is it OEM only? Or can manufacturers get approvals just as they can for other stuff?

Thanks.

 

Aftermarket manufacturers can get CARB Exemption numbers as well. You have to meet testing and documentation requirements, but there are a number of aftermarket companies that have a very extensive set of products that have CARB Exemption numbers.

 

It will be interesting to see if Peter (M7) agrees with the concept of difference in design.... If two vendors get into a cat fight over a similar product, you know the market has matured....

Stay tuned.

 

Does the new I/C work with the existing hood scoop? Or, does it require a replacement scoop? Can we presume that the fit is plug-and-play, with no trim/cutting/etc. modifications required?

 

The "argument" over the copyright or patent or whatever between M7 and Alta over this IC is a long, old story that consumed masses of pages of posts here on NAM. They resolved that issue if my memory is good, and so we don't need to worry about it any more. The fact that the Alta horizontal IC is available just increases the choices we have, and a healthy market full of product differentiation and competition for our hard-earned dollars is just what we need.
Personally, I doubt the Alta IC will work without a really big scoop (oh, I'm the only person with one of those !)

 

And what are the design differences?

-Brian

 

I think they're very obvious...

It says ALTA on top instead of M7

sorry had to make the joke

 

Lol?

 

The IC will work with the stock scoop and will include all rubber to surround and create a tight seal against the hood.

 

I can't wait for the differentiation of these products...I'm sure it is huge

 

Did I miss a huge earlier thread on this product regarding copyrights?

 

No. You missed a huge earlier thread on this product regarding patents!

 

looking forward to seeing the specs. competition is good.

 

Alta uses extruded tubed (or did in the prototype)... M7 uses a braized or bonded one.... While not universally true, the extruded ones tend to have lower pressure drop at the price of a bit of thermal efficiency, and the bonded/brazed tend (I say tend, because any of these can be made with a huge range of turbulator (little fin) densities) to have a bit more thermal effeciency at the price of increase pressure drop.....

This is from some earlier thread on ICs....

The "Flow Through" is Alta's Prototype.... Anyway, as you can see, the ICs all do their job slightly differently.... But then again, there's always more than one way to skin a cat!

Matt

 

Let me try again. I understand the CARB exemption process, per se. What I was trying to ask is whether an IC is even a component -- after market or otherwise -- that requires an exemption? (since it is, in my mind anyway, not directly impacting the AFR -- sort of) though the CARB might not see it that way.

Is it like getting a shorty antenna as far as CARB is concerned? Or is it maybe like getting a cat back exhaust, which (my understanding) is pretty much anything goes, as long as noise limits are not exceeded.

Thanks again.

 

ANYTHING that effects the operation of a motor is covered. ICs are as well, as part of the intake system.

Matt

 

Interesting question; but bureaucrats are bureaucrats. Basically anything from the intake to the catalytic converter is arguably part of the emission control system. Anything that changes the performance parameters of the emission control system must have a CARB Exemption number to be able to pass the SMOG test in California. So, even though a CAI would not change the Fuel-Air Ratio per se, it would require a CARB Exemption number to be completely risk-free regarding the SMOG test in California.

What to do? You almost have to know who is going to be doing the SMOG test on your car and whether they are going to hold you to the exact letter of the law. If so, the presence of even a CAI is going to raise issues for you. Going to a service station (as opposed to a dealer, for example) is no guarantee of leniency. In a prior lifetime, I owned a Land Rover Defender 90 that had an emission control system service campaign performed on it (required service; otherwise, the truck could not be registered in California). When the time came for its SMOG test, I took it to a local service station because of its convenient location. The SMOG test technician was obsessively detailed - they even found a mis-routing of the vacuum hoses that controled part of the emission control system....

It also is not going to help your case to argue whether something needs a CARB Exemption number with the SMOG test technician. They are trained to not make judgement calls. If they find something that is non-factory that is part of the emission control system that does not have a CARB Exemption number, they are to fail the car - for them it is really very binary. If the car is failed, then a whole new set of procedures kicks into play. And, if you have modded your car's emission control system, you don't want to go down that path.... To register your car, you will have to have everything brought back to stock by the dealer - because the dealer will have to certify to the DMV that the car's emission control system meets the manufacturer's specification; the only way to do that is to replace every part of the emission control system.

 

A cat-back exhaust does have an affect on the operation of a motor.... But since it is installed after the catalytic converter, the cat-back gets a pass.

 

Just a point of clarification.

Extruded tubes with internal fins aren't truly using turbuolators. They only increase the surface area for heat exchange.

Turbulators work by effectively moving air flow against the tube walls promoting heat exchange.

That would be why extruded tubes flow better but cool worse.

 

it all depends on surface finish!

Matt

 

So, one way to view it is: anything "pre-cat" is covered, and "post-cat" is not?

However, what about a hood scoop? It is integrated with the IC when the hood is closed (and/or sometimes an intake) but it is not actually fastened to the engine. A scoop is obvious even to the most casual observer, where many other engine components are not (pulleys and head work for example). I opted for a K&N CAI (versus other brands available at the ime such as the Helix and Alta) because that item (somewhat like a scoop) is "out there" for anyone to see (that it has or has NOT a CARB sticker) and I did not (and DO not) want to mess with any more stuff than I have to to pass the smog tests.

Could a non-stock scoop cause a failure? Should I keep my stock scoop just in case?