most inspectors/testers aren't into it enough to understand how a scoop could effect the motor, so wouldn't fail you on visual inspection. But you never know when you're gonna get the guy who just got dumped by his girlfriend, so save every part that has anything at all to do with the motor.

If you fail visual with your monster scoop (maybe paint it body color?), you can always come back with the stocker on. FWIW, I stillhave all the smog parts (and they all work) for my 75 Fiat for the 2 year migration to the inspection station..... I run all the stock stuff, but the airfilter assembly and some ducting for cold starts, and those parts go back on for it's sniff test...

Anyway, I don't think you'll find anyone who will quote what exaclty the fine line is between ok and illegal, as it gets pretty vauge when you look at the itty bitty details.

Matt

 

Dr Obnxs, if you remember and if you can divulge this information, what were the gains you saw testing the prototype? Against what other intercooler? What other mods were on the car at that time? Thanks

 

That's why you ARE the Doctor.

Methinks I'll be keeping that scoop (and all the other stuff too)

*&$%ing CARB!!!

 

If you sell your car, put all the stock stuff back on and sell the add ons! I was looking at the value of my extreemly beaten 02 as a trade for a newer version (maybe an 07 Turbo to play with... always need new toys!), and I realized that I'd get 0 for the parts on the car in trade, and about 25%, maybe more, of the trade in value if I took them all off an sold them on line!

Matt

 

wow...

a good thread turned into a bunch of irrelevant information, at least as far as the threads concerned.

All I really wanted to know was opinion in which would be better, and what the cost would be

 

unless someone tests the production version. The prototype and the DFIC are within spittin distance of each other. Support your favorite vendor!

Matt

 

Price for the Alta (retail and street) are in the thread above... The DFIC numbers are available on the M7 web site, and it comes with a scoop, which is manditory for best IC performance. To get the most out of the Alta add in the cost of a scoop to your budget....
Also, I don't know if Si boots are an extra cost or not, so if you're serious, make your shopping list for your exact configuration and add up the costs...

Matt

 

FWIW... I monitor amb air temp and IAT and the DFIC routinely is within 20-24 deg 6th gear cruise

 

It's Alta/Perrin - duh! Fit is never as good as OEM and almost always needs some tweaking. At least in my experience that's the case with every Alta or Perrin item I've ever installed.

 

Yes, the IC is finally released! As we have said before, we have been working on this since before SEMA last year. With the help of DR. Obnxs, and his great testing, we have finally released it!

Bugs,
Cliff got most of your answers covered. You said similar to the M7 and yes you are right it is similar. With out measuring the 2 units, the one big difference is the cast endtanks. Because we use cast endtanks, we can make the transition from the oval to core very smoothly. Theres isn't. They claim CFD modeling, and all that. This isn't rocket science, you need to make the transition from Oval to core, and make it smooth and short, and that is as good as it gets.

Dr Obnxs,
There were some slight changes from the design you tested. The one you tested was bar and plate, as is the final version.The only tube and fin core we ever used was on our original IC. But we got away from that years ago. With some changes to the fins, we have improved ambient flow through the core. This helps slightly with cooling.

markldriskill,
Regarding CARB. This part does need an EO number to make it legal. Anything from the filter to the last cat needs an EO number to be legal. On the new IC, we will most likely get this tested, but it is not the first thing on the list. Already we have about 20 parts being delt with right now, and it is taking much more time than expected. And now that the car is changing the amount of potential buyers for this IC will be less and less. But you never know, if we get enough CA guys begging we will push it up the list.

caminifan,
There may be a little cat fight, like you said, but we have some interesting info if it gets to that point.

You ask about the scoop! Couple things here. You do have to modify the scoop. It is very simple, literally trim the bottom of the plastic to match to the steel, and your are done. Some of the larger scoops and add on scoops are a good idea. Which you will see something from us very soon, that will satisfy this need.

The only modification you have to do other than that is trimming down the aluminum posts slightly. Because of the size of our core, and making the most out of the IC, this allows for extra clearance between the hood and IC. I am not sure if this has to be done with the M7 unit, but if it doesn't, their core must be smaller (not as good), or there will be some contact with certain cars depending on how their SC pulley is installed, or how worn out their motor mounts are. This 5 min mod saves possible issues with dented hoods!

DrPhilGandini,
Yes there was a bit of discussion regarding this a long time ago. Like we said above we have some interesting info to add if it comes to that. Is it resolved? Nope! We sent M7 about 8 emails, PM's regarding what their patent is about, and nothing. Others have also noted how their Patent number isn't legit, this i am not sure of, nor is it that important. The cost of pantenting a lower volume part like this isn't worth the cost versus the profit gained by it. That is our opinion at least, and that is why there are no patents on our other innovative products like our SS design(now being copied) and SC and other parts.

SpiderX,
Like the Dr. says, i can't see there being a huge difference in performance. With our better tank design, there might be a slight advantage there, but it would be minor. That is all pending the size of the core. Either way both their core and our core came from the same idea.....

cooldaddy,
You are right competition is good! As much as we hate it when people make similar parts, that is the american way! And it does nothing but good! Hell, it made us change our SC pulley to something even better!

markldriskill,
You bring up a good point about the scoop. But the LAW doesn't require that to have an EO number. Neither does a body kit that get more air to the radiator, or a hood with a big scoops and vents. But don't say it too loud, an ARB officer might be listening!

 

I'm sure you're already working on this but can we get some better photos of the IC, with some clarification as to where the sprayer goes, etc...

thanks for the update!!!

 

Also, to motivate you to pursue a CARB exemption number for your IC, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is - I will order one of your ICs as soon as you can give me a CARB exemption number for it!

Any other interested California NAMers, please feel free to pile on - the more commitments, the greater the chance of getting Alta to pursue a CARB exemption number!

 

I forgot: does this DFIC have bungs for boost/thermocouples?

 

!


'Bugs,
Cliff got most of your answers covered. You said similar to the M7 and yes you are right it is similar. With out measuring the 2 units, the one big difference is the cast endtanks. Because we use cast endtanks, we can make the transition from the oval to core very smoothly. Theres isn't. They claim CFD modeling, and all that. This isn't rocket science, you need to make the transition from Oval to core, and make it smooth and short, and that is as good as it gets. "


Point of clarification . You make a great point regarding the end tanks being better if they were cast . The M7 DFIC you must have used to look at when you were desigining yours must have been a early one . The M7 DIFC has been shipping units with cast end tanks for the last few months . There are several members in our local club with them and they are have cast end tanks .

This is scott from central coast coopers setup.

 

Where did you get it?

 

good question
and it olso avaible in black?
thanks

 

See post number 1: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...74&postcount=1

 

Looking good Alta!

I just wanna know what this thing is gonna start getting called short hand.

Alta DFIC? Alta TMDFIC? Alta Flow Through IC...Alta FTIC?

 

Cooldaddy,
The sprayer mounts right in the middle of the diverter. Similar placement to our other intercooler.

caminifan,
Using how long it has taken to get our intakes done, you might be waiting for a long time to get our new intercooler. But it is on the long list of parts to get CARB approved. It just may not be the first.

cooldaddy,
There are no bungs, but the casting is plenty thick enough to drill and tap for 1/8NPT, which is the most standard method of mounting a temp sensor.

But lets not call our intercooler DFIC, that is M7's name, and our IC is different than theirs.

trackster,
I see that now, and yes cast is much better. But is is only much better when they are designed with out the constraints of using sheet metal. I say that as using a casting allows for much smoother freer flowing angles, which in turn keeps pressure drop down, and distributes air more even across the intercooler.

POINT OF CLARIFICATION:
You say"The M7 DFIC you must have used to look at when you were desigining yours must have been a early one."
We never saw any M7 intercooler when we started designing ours. Remember, we showed our IC long before M7 showed theirs. We just released our later. Our IC was something that we had designed at last years SEMA for our TC kit. There is more to this, but its not relevant to this thread.

pit bull,
Black only at this point, and maybe a raw finished one if enough people ask. Our new theme for parts is our Version 2.0. Back to black for a lot of parts, and some major redesigns for others.

CooperDrew,
Good question! Well, 1.5 years ago we started to call it the side draft IC around the shop. But it not really getting it from the side, so it is just the Version 2.0 ALTA INTERCOOLER. Or if others want to call it something like the DFIC, maybe the BDFIC? B=Bigger.

 

Here is quick shot of our tanks.

 

trackster,
I see that now, and yes cast is much better. But is is only much better when they are designed with out the constraints of using sheet metal. I say that as using a casting allows for much smoother freer flowing angles, which in turn keeps pressure drop down, and distributes air more even across the intercooler.




I found this shot in another thread and it shows the cast end tanks a bit better than the red painted ones on that other car. It seems as if both of you are thinking in the same direction to some degree as cast being better. If you are similar in that area what other differences might we look for?

 

ALthough hard to see in the OP photo, The Alta II seems to sit higher, be deeper and have the diverter attached to the IC. Also note that the diverter is designed for a stock, or wide scoop as opposed to the asymetric M7 DF scoop, even though I'm sure it would work with it just fine.
wrt sitting higher, there's a mention somewhere in this thread about clearance with the bonnet. Sitting higher would be good to get more thermal protection under the IC, and there's no doubt you could raise the DFIC by 3/4" and still miss the bonnet, even with engine movement.
M7 just announced a new pricing option for the DFIC, and now you get lots of hardware thrown in gratis. Talk about early adopters getting the thin edge.

cheers,

 

Which one cools better

One note though looking at that tank is the radius leading to the throat. Kind of a sharp edge.

 

Trackster,
yes, casting is better as it allows for more freedom of design. That picture does show some differences in our tanks to theirs. It also shows some comparison on size. BTW our site is up and the pics are all there!

BTW our site is up and the pics are all there!


Obehave,
Well, as our findings earlier on, and from Dr.obnoxs, cooling is a small parts of why this works. The power comes from the pressure drop being less. I think our core is taller, and longer (using the above pics) so it should cool better. You really can't go too big on an intercooler!

 

Bigger than a DFIC?


DrPhilGandini I like the moniker, the Alta II.