Anyone can take a m62, fabricate some brackets and bolt it to the mini. I feel the key is going to be the tune and pulley size. I'm interested to see what Helix can come up with.

 

Agreed. After all these contraptions, bolt-ons, M62's, Twin C and straight turbo cars I am surprised none of the vendors have come up with some sort of standalone solution to replace the endless array of piggybacks. IMO the first one that does is gonna have a nice lead on the competition.

Seann

 

right on !!!! no more socialistic "everyone wins crap" .

 

I think I have the only M62 car in existence .... at least for a few more days ..... the more I drive it, the more I like it..... I will say there is a lot more to it than just bolting it on..... Eric has my respect and I'm sure he will figure it all out..... "free market society" .... it's been a pretty good system so far ... I think we should keep it ...: thumbsup:

 

The fourth (and should be first) would be DDM Works... You know Dave, the guy who has been installing them like the one on SpiderX's car.... and now on 4 other cars in process....

 

Well, technically yes DDM was the first out of the gate; but they appear to be working with M7, so DDM and M7 should be combined together, leaving still 3 M62 projects in play at the moment.

 

considering you would be dropping $4000, and reining back your expectations, what would be an acceptable gain from adding an M62 to a typically lightly modded car? where would you draw the line, $ vs performance?

 

Remember that spreadsheet someone did on MINI2 years ago that showed the price per HP for various mods?
When you start getting pricing over $100 per HP it's just goofy expensive.
This is referencing a stock vehicle.
We all know the more hp you have the more the next step costs.

Nothings beats the pulley for bang for the buck.

 

Your right and the next comparable mod would be a Head/cam.

Im curious of what kind of numbers we are going to get from a tuned 62 kit. I am more interested in looking at the dyno graphs with the A/F. I have a feeling that there are going to be many dissapointed NAMers. Only time will tell, in the mean time we can discuss what we think though -- Johan

 

I have a feeling the ultimate hp delta won't be as high as some have speculated.

And the dollar/hp ratio may not be so encouraging.

What I AM hoping for however, is a significant increase in torque...

That could be the deciding factor, at least for me, if the dollar/hp ratio is less than appealing.

 

Since you're speculating that we will be disappointed, on what do you base your opinion? What kind of gains, or lack thereof, would you consider a disappointment? 40HP & 40LB/FT TQ increase? 50, 60, 100 of each?

What is the point at which we will all be disappointed or pleased? If people are expecting turbo-like power from this they are bound to be disappointed. Two different animals with two different results, IMHO.

 

Mini Fireman,

Although I'm not the one you quoted, I'd say anything less than a 40 hp delta will be tough economics, when this much cash gets laid out.

Based on what's been hinted at so far, I'd be surprised if the installed price, including new pulley and maybe some other ancillaries (including shipping), is less than $4500.

If the delta is under 30 hp, for some who have shown interest, it'll be a non-starter.

But that's only speculation. Folks might still jump on it. Especially if it delivers a big fat torque increase.

I'd definitely have to drive one with similar mods to mine at that point to consider it.

 

Take a stock mini and spend 4500 for a m62 and spend 4500 for a turbo kit on another stock mini and compare. I'm not saying one's better than the other since I haven't done it but it's something to ponder about.

There are many people on here who are thinking there going to get all this great power from the 62, and they might. If I'm going to drop an additional $4500 I would want to see 300 WHP on pump gas for sure! not 200...it's hard to explain on a post but I hope you can understand where I'm getting at.

It's kind of like other products that were talked about when they were still in the R&D phase and claimed how it was the best thing on the planet...then when released to the public it was like...oh, that's cool...and there were a lot of dissapointed members. Like I said before I am still waiting, by the way how long has tthe 62 project been going on...?? -- Johan

 

Seems like a well done M62 kit could pass visual smog inspection, which is huge, at least in the Golden State. No way you'd get through with a turbo kit.

 

Since roughly late July, if based on this thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=73771

As I mentioned, the value of the M62 kit is going to be relative to what you are looking for. If it's sheer HP, it may be underwhelming. If you want street-useable torque, it may very well be a winner. The cost of a well built & engineered turbo kit can be upwards of $10K according to Ryephile and others who've done them. The already established costs of a twin-charged kit are obviously less, but it also achieves less net HP gains.

In my case, I prefer to keep my car supercharged only. The M62 holds the very real promise of enhancing my existing setup, without the more radical "surgery" involved with a twin-charged or turbo kit. I realize this is still mostly speculation, and has been since this project came under discussion, but I know enough about what is going on in SC at DDM Works to have an idea of what to expect. Frankly, I'm just happy that there are people out there pushing the envelope for the rest of us without the talent & resources. Let's hope all of the M62 developers have much success.

 

as long as the m62 doesn't throw codes and go into limp home mode, the ability to pass visual inspection without issues is a great benefit that many people want... If Helix produces anything like its turbokompressor kit, its going to be a full package. You just give up lots of power for the money

 

Agreed. Here in CA, and for those of us who want to keep our little cars for a long time, CARB is a reality. And considering that many of us should be able to do the install ourselves, the price paid for the package/kit is the final price.

This kit should enhance what I want from this car quite well. As I said before, I'll save the major power quest for another project that can better make use of it (RWD, longer wheel base ride).

 

i like how TonyB put it, "enhancement" of our cars. it came supercharged and some like it that way and we just want an increase in power, reliable and driveable. like a turbo upgrade kit that costs a couple grand for a VW from APR Tuning or something. this is a supercharger upgrade. but we won't need a turbo timer, huge injectors, wastegate, new manifold, downpipe, etc. but the M62 will allow us to upgrade and gain more power by still using products already available on the market now, some of which may right now be in develpment. this upgrade is definitely more "sleeper" than an all Turbo setup or TC setup, but just as tangible to some. the fact that i won't have to change the way i drive my car, or the way it drives won't be different but it will be "enhanced" is a big deal to me. i love this stuff!

 

If it doesn't bludgeon the $100 per HP or for me $100 per lbs/ft it'll be worth taking a serious look.

So much depends on the starting point though doesn't it?

 

ems does have its benfits overa piggyback, but if you do a search on the web (ex. aem, hydra, tec3r,motec, etc.) it would be an expensive option.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that a Turbo is any better or worse. I agree, I don't want to hack up under my bonnet for a turbo. I will keep my mini a SC only as well. I think it's one thing that seperates the mini from the other turbo cars. If i wanted a turbo car I would of just bought one. NO offence at all to anyone who had built a Turbo Mini...As a matter of fact I respect those guys, it's just not for me.

 

On a lightly tuned-car, with intake, cat-back and pulley, etc., what would be the expected gains of a head/cam combo with a ECU tune. What would that cost and how does that compare to the m62 power/gains? This is the real question.

The comparison on a highly modified car is a non-starter. The TC/turbo crowd have different requirements/goals than the people that want the m62. Some people want power, some want to get by CARB, some worry about reliability. Different strokes for different folks. I think it's been established that the M62 will be undisputedly more expensive than a TC/turbo setup to see the same hp, but that's the price you pay for perceived reliability and sneaking past CARB.

 

The magic is in the tuning: even Eric admits that his TK kit gives up some drivability compared to a pulleyed car. In talking to him, It's clear that they are looking at a kit with less ferocious power, but great every day driveability. I'm going to let the market shake out a bit before pulling the trigger. Is the Helix kit going to be GIAC tuned?

 

edit

 

So a 40hp & 40lb/ft of torque increase for $4000 would be your rough limit? From what I've read/heard this has been achieved with the M62 kit. What will be interesting to see are the results of fitting the kit to the test cars with their varying levels of mods.

I'm also interested to see what variations the Helix kit (and any others) have as compared to the DDM/M7 kit. Multiple development avenues is a good thing.