Drivetrain Benefits of water-to-air I/C?
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6th Gear
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Benefits of water-to-air I/C?
With the recent heat wave causing pinging where there had been no pinging, one possible solution that has been mentioned is the replacement of the air-to-air intercooler with a water-to-air intercooler. It would seem that a water-to-air intercooler could solve some of the problems associated with the air-to-air interrcooler, especially as regards having to live with 91 octane pisswater. Does anyone have actual experience with a water-to-air I/C implementation that is also challenged with 91 octane pump gas?
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Southern California
I have the Gintani liquid-air intercooler with integral intake manifold, and I also have to use 91 octane petrol. This has been a brutal summer (heat and humidity) in Southern California, however, I have not noticed any pinging or other malfunction with outside temps frequently > 100 deg F. My Autometer IAT gauge is out for repair, and I haven't done any data logging (beta Bim-Com) in several months (I've been too lazy to set up the computer and connect to the OBDII port). When I get the gauge back, I'll compare the IAT with ambient temp under a variety of conditions.
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Caminifan,
The below email from a customer gives some of the benefits of the Water-to Air-IC. Do you have a pulley? If so, switching to cooling running spark plugs (if you haven't already) may help.
The below email from a customer gives some of the benefits of the Water-to Air-IC. Do you have a pulley? If so, switching to cooling running spark plugs (if you haven't already) may help.
[SIZE=2]In regards to the IC, I hafta say I have been surprised with the overall performance. Seat of the pants indicates it is a drastic improvement over the stock IC. Especially after it has been severely heatsoaked (long stop light or after sitting for an hour during lunch).
However, what I have found most fascinating is the temp data I've been collecting with the optional temp monitor I installed in the IC.
I'm going to assume the monitor is reasonably accurate to absolute temperature (+/- 1 to 2 degrees?). The Out temp seems to stabilize around 15 degrees above ambient, which around here lately has been 110 degrees (placing the Out temp at 125). I was actually hoping for the Out temp to be closer to ambient with all of the thermal reflective film I placed on the IC, but maybe this is all I could really hope for considering the hot outside air in conjunction with the hot internal air (it will be interesting to see what happens when it is cooler in 6 months). The In/Out delta is typically around 35 degrees while I'm just cruising. What has really amazed me though is what happens when I'm really on it. The In temp just skyrockets almost immediately due to the SC on high rpm. I've seen In temperatures well over 200 degrees during one of these hard charges, yet the Out temp stays glued around 128. This is giving me over 75 degrees of In/Out delta during this time!! Wow. I never really realized how hot the compressed air got during one of these high rpm events, and I've been amazed at how well the new IC worked under those conditions.
Another fascinating observation has occurred when I've let the car sit for about an hour during lunch. On initial check after I hop back into the car, both In/Out temps are around 160 degrees. In about 30-45 secs after startup while still at idle in the parking lot, the Out temp is almost back to 125. Very impressive. This would never happen with the stock IC. Once the stock IC was fully heatsoaked, it never really recovered during these hot summer months. So needless to say, I'm VERY pleased with your IC.
[/SIZE]
However, what I have found most fascinating is the temp data I've been collecting with the optional temp monitor I installed in the IC.
I'm going to assume the monitor is reasonably accurate to absolute temperature (+/- 1 to 2 degrees?). The Out temp seems to stabilize around 15 degrees above ambient, which around here lately has been 110 degrees (placing the Out temp at 125). I was actually hoping for the Out temp to be closer to ambient with all of the thermal reflective film I placed on the IC, but maybe this is all I could really hope for considering the hot outside air in conjunction with the hot internal air (it will be interesting to see what happens when it is cooler in 6 months). The In/Out delta is typically around 35 degrees while I'm just cruising. What has really amazed me though is what happens when I'm really on it. The In temp just skyrockets almost immediately due to the SC on high rpm. I've seen In temperatures well over 200 degrees during one of these hard charges, yet the Out temp stays glued around 128. This is giving me over 75 degrees of In/Out delta during this time!! Wow. I never really realized how hot the compressed air got during one of these high rpm events, and I've been amazed at how well the new IC worked under those conditions.
Another fascinating observation has occurred when I've let the car sit for about an hour during lunch. On initial check after I hop back into the car, both In/Out temps are around 160 degrees. In about 30-45 secs after startup while still at idle in the parking lot, the Out temp is almost back to 125. Very impressive. This would never happen with the stock IC. Once the stock IC was fully heatsoaked, it never really recovered during these hot summer months. So needless to say, I'm VERY pleased with your IC.
[/SIZE]
My little dose of LITHIUM
iTrader: (1)
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From: Albuquerque New Mexico
A friend here in NM just installed a water2air IC and he's very happy with how it handles heat soak, as mentioned in the post above. I was also talking to a guy in AZ with a MM IC and he claims it added 30HP at the wheels to his convertible (!) This is pretty amazing, and if true MCS I wonder why everyone hasn't just put one on? I'd pay $1700 for a guaranteed 30 HP at the wheels--geez I've paid 6 times that for a measly 40HP at the crank and I still have the stock IC.
sign me up...
sign me up...
5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
I joined a mini club here in SO.Cal and went on my first run with them in the mountains last month. There was a blue S there with a Gintani system. At one of the rest stops the owner was saying that he had to use his heater to keep the car at a lower enough operating temp. It was hot out , about 90, and he was one of the guys running up front so I am sure they were driving quickly. Later at the lunch stop we were talking about it at our table and we were wondering if the additional cooler which takes up the lower third of the front air intake area might be blocking too much of the radiator. The intake temps may be lower but apparently at the expense of the motor running hotter overall. I think I can find out who it was and perhaps get him to check in with some added info. Anyway it looked interesting.
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6th Gear
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Originally Posted by RECOOP
I have the Gintani liquid-air intercooler with integral intake manifold, and I also have to use 91 octane petrol. This has been a brutal summer (heat and humidity) in Southern California, however, I have not noticed any pinging or other malfunction with outside temps frequently > 100 deg F. My Autometer IAT gauge is out for repair, and I haven't done any data logging (beta Bim-Com) in several months (I've been too lazy to set up the computer and connect to the OBDII port). When I get the gauge back, I'll compare the IAT with ambient temp under a variety of conditions.
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6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
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Originally Posted by Steve@MINI-Madness
Caminifan,
The below email from a customer gives some of the benefits of the Water-to Air-IC. Do you have a pulley? If so, switching to cooling running spark plugs (if you haven't already) may help.
The below email from a customer gives some of the benefits of the Water-to Air-IC. Do you have a pulley? If so, switching to cooling running spark plugs (if you haven't already) may help.
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6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
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Originally Posted by gandini
A friend here in NM just installed a water2air IC and he's very happy with how it handles heat soak, as mentioned in the post above. I was also talking to a guy in AZ with a MM IC and he claims it added 30HP at the wheels to his convertible (!) This is pretty amazing, and if true MCS I wonder why everyone hasn't just put one on? I'd pay $1700 for a guaranteed 30 HP at the wheels--geez I've paid 6 times that for a measly 40HP at the crank and I still have the stock IC.
sign me up...
sign me up...
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6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
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Originally Posted by trackster
I joined a mini club here in SO.Cal and went on my first run with them in the mountains last month. There was a blue S there with a Gintani system. At one of the rest stops the owner was saying that he had to use his heater to keep the car at a lower enough operating temp. It was hot out , about 90, and he was one of the guys running up front so I am sure they were driving quickly. Later at the lunch stop we were talking about it at our table and we were wondering if the additional cooler which takes up the lower third of the front air intake area might be blocking too much of the radiator. The intake temps may be lower but apparently at the expense of the motor running hotter overall. I think I can find out who it was and perhaps get him to check in with some added info. Anyway it looked interesting.
mark
mark
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6th Gear
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Been doing some research into water-to-air I/C mounting...
From what I found, it seems that the cooler for the water-to-air I/C is mounted in front of the radiator (similar to what is done for the a/c condensor). The problem with that mounting point (as trackster posted) is that you are opening up a potential can of worms in reducing the flow of cooling air to the radiator. One possible solution is to mount the water-to-air I/C cooling coils so that they receive cooling air from the MCS' hood scoop. Does anyone have any info about this option?
Originally Posted by trackster
I joined a mini club here in SO.Cal and went on my first run with them in the mountains last month. There was a blue S there with a Gintani system. At one of the rest stops the owner was saying that he had to use his heater to keep the car at a lower enough operating temp. It was hot out , about 90, and he was one of the guys running up front so I am sure they were driving quickly. Later at the lunch stop we were talking about it at our table and we were wondering if the additional cooler which takes up the lower third of the front air intake area might be blocking too much of the radiator. The intake temps may be lower but apparently at the expense of the motor running hotter overall. I think I can find out who it was and perhaps get him to check in with some added info. Anyway it looked interesting.
mark
mark
Do you feel this way RECOOP?????
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 399
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From: Southern California
Do you feel this way RECOOP?????
Johan,
The car in question was mine and I do remember that particular run. I am not convinced that any "obstruction" from the Gintani heat exchanger to air flow through the radiator was the cause of engine water temps rising to 220 or so degree F. I have had the Gintani system about one year, and prior to that I would still see very high engine coolant temps under certain conditions, i.e., very hot days and a lot of stop-and-go traffic.
When I was in an autox event, even with high ambient temps, the a/c would obviously not be running. However, while waiting in line for a run, the engine coolant temp would often rise to 220-225 degree F levels. This was even before the Gintani system. Now I just turn on the a/c or the heater while idling or slowly moving through the line. Please note that my car is very highly modified and does generate a fair amount of heat. Of note, oil temperature did not go any higher than 220 degree F (Mobile 1, 5-30w).
BTW, does anyone know the relative temperature differential across the stock Mini coolant radiator? In other words, what is the efficiency of the radiator?
Johan,
The car in question was mine and I do remember that particular run. I am not convinced that any "obstruction" from the Gintani heat exchanger to air flow through the radiator was the cause of engine water temps rising to 220 or so degree F. I have had the Gintani system about one year, and prior to that I would still see very high engine coolant temps under certain conditions, i.e., very hot days and a lot of stop-and-go traffic.
When I was in an autox event, even with high ambient temps, the a/c would obviously not be running. However, while waiting in line for a run, the engine coolant temp would often rise to 220-225 degree F levels. This was even before the Gintani system. Now I just turn on the a/c or the heater while idling or slowly moving through the line. Please note that my car is very highly modified and does generate a fair amount of heat. Of note, oil temperature did not go any higher than 220 degree F (Mobile 1, 5-30w).
BTW, does anyone know the relative temperature differential across the stock Mini coolant radiator? In other words, what is the efficiency of the radiator?
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