Careful ...There be wrathful beasties aboot

 

LOL

I am serious. He makes a statement about the vacuum tube without offering any evidence of his claim.

 

In your ad hominem attack-laced post, you forgot to mention why air flows into the supercharger. Why would I think that removing the supercharger would cause the car to lose its ability to draw air? The supercharger forces MORE air in than would otherwise be consumed. I am not sure why it is such a difficult concept for you to understand. Perhaps you are too caught up in trying to prove me wrong to look at the basic physics of the system. Air flows into the supercharger by virtue of the supercharger sucking it in, and pushing it out. If there wasn't a below-atmospheric condition created by the air moving into the supercharger, then atmospheric air wouldn't move toward it at the rate it does. This isn't rocket science. Look at it this way: instead of your example where you disconnect the pulley, disconnect the supercharger inlet and outlet hoses and attach two air tanks to the these hoses instead, one on the inlet side and one on the outlet side. Guess what happens to the pressure in these two tanks: inlet side tank sees pressure drop, and outlet tank sees pressure rise. And the car still runs, drawing less air than before with its lower vacuum potential.

And I haven't "overused" the door hitting you comment, I used it only once, and if you re-read the comment to which I was responding, it is quite appropriate due to your reference about others leaving the thread.

 

At least you could read what I posted before saying based on font understanding.
You're the one that says the SC creates the vacuum, not me. I only said that trying to demonstrate that there is vacuum without the SC being involved.

Your closed system example is flawed. I do understand your intent but you can't use a closed system to describe one that isn't.
Assume 2 large tanks. I'll guess that the exhaust will represent the outlet tank. Your analogy ignores the pumping aspects of the motor itself.

You're describing the blower as a stand alone device and I'm describing it as part of the whole system.

And speaking of ignoring things I haven't read a thing from you refuting my point that according to your scenario there should be higher, maybe even far higher, vacuum present in a supercharged engine than an NA.

Now having actually really installed an supercharger on a motor I can assure you that idle vacuum, off idle and high RPM vacuum remained very very similar. Using vacuum secondary carbs and vacuum driven distributer advance not to mention vacuum boosted brakes you'd notice if all of a sudden vacuum rates changed. Old GMC blowers didn't run bypass valves so they were pumping all the time. Made getting idle and off idle configured a bit tricky but once you were in it woo hoo!

What you're trying to prove is that a supercharger can create a vacuum. Well duh! It's a pump.
What I'm saying is that it does not create a huge vacuum in the application we're taking about, the MINI. That has been my contention all along.

So if the SC in the MINI is such a huge vacuum pump then why doesn't it suck in the filter? Why aren't bugs and small birds embedded in the filter?
Yes I'm exaggerating for fun but my point remains.
According to your hypothesis the engine should be drawing monster vacuum at WOT.
I've used verifiable arguments. You either haven't or have used examples not germane to the discussion.
ad hom·i·nem P Pronunciation Key (hm-nm, -nm)
adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason

From what I can see you've been doing a bit more ad homineming than I Yes I know that isn't a real word.

Aaaaaan parry

 

DialM, check out this picture of a old PanAm DC-10. Looking at the jet engine turbocharger basic concept this should give an idea of what happens in front of them.

If nothing esle......at least everyone could enjoy a cool picture of a one time GREAT airline when the Flight Attendants were hot and liked having sex.

 

I know I am going to regret this.

I do not know about the Mini's but diesel motors DO SUCK IN DIRTY FILTERS...it is called "dusting" the engine. And if you ever want to come over and see my CAI on my Duramax when it is ready to be cleaned there are bugs and pollen wedged into the grooves. They make a pre-filter cover or sock to prevent this.

And if you do not believe me....that cool....I have seen a "dusted" filter at our Ford dealership first hand. Next time your out just "Motoring" stop at a truck stop and ask the shop what a "dusted" diesel engine is or if you would rather avoid truck stops check with a Ford dealership that sells a lot of Power Strokes. See what they say.

 

Come-on Obe, quit pulling punches... tell us what you really think

 

If nothing esle......at least everyone could enjoy a cool picture of a one time GREAT airline when the Flight Attendants were hot and liked having sex.
[/quote]

I personally wanna hear A LOT more on this subject!

 

I agree.

 

That was true of K&N filters on my old NA trucks as well. 350HP seemed like a lot 30 years ago. Not so much anymore.

I was making a joke about the huge sucking vacuum that must exist in a supercharged vehicle.

From what I could find, dusting is when a filter becomes oversaturated with debris and it begins to penetrate the filter.
Very interesting, thanks.

But.....
Diesels pull much more vacuum than a small gas engine of comparable displacement and you're talking about turbos which work differently than roots SCs do.
So as interesting as it may be it's a bit off the mark.

Once again, all I am saying is that vacuum in the induction system in a MINI is not there because of the supercharger. I am venturing that intake vacuum under varying conditions is not measurably different between an MCS and an MC.

Why are there no special "For supercharged cars only" vacuum gauges? Wouldn't there be if the supercharger was such a vacuum producing mechanism in the MINI? Or any car.

I know for a fact that on a blown small block Chevy you don't need a special gauge.

 

Well, I'm only trying to live down to the names I have been called

 

obehave, your welcome.

I think it is all relative. A 168HP Mini I-4 gas, 300HP Duramax V-8 diesel, 530HP Cummins ISX I-6 diesel, or a Turbo Fan jet engine producing 10s of thousands of pounds of thrust. They all have one thing in common..........

SUCK-SQUEEZE-BANG-BLOW

And I am NOT talking about the Flight Attendents of yesturyear.

 

It's a turbine. Not a turbocharger. I used to work for a company that made the vanes for aircraft, industrial and marine turbines. They also cast the first 1 piece turbocharger impeller( that was in testing when I left so I don't know the outcome)

Pretty cool picture. .

 

I know it is a turbine actually a turbo fan engine. "Jet engine turbocharger basic concept" was a basic blanket statement(if there is such a thing). Again, this is what I do for living, I was keeping it simple...exhaust gas throught the turbins drives the compressor section....the same "concept" of turbocharged and not SC cars and trucks.


Speaking of vanes....Some of the new engines now have the first half of stator vanes being variable to help reduce compressor stalls. The blade angle is controlled by the engine's computer and actuated by fuel presure.

 

I have turned poor Arly's thread into........'When Flight Attendants of yesturyear put out' and 'how jet engines work'.

Dude....Arly, I am sorry!



Again Arly, thanks for posting your work for us to see!

 

Scott, go outside to your MCS, and follow the procedure I outlined in a couple of postings above. There you will have your data and your evidence. I need not send it to you. Please report back with your findings.

 

I married an "X" Pan Am flight attendant.. and .....I'll just say.... .


Cool picture...

So, Im confused after reading this thread....Is the Alta catch can a good or bad thing??? in the recommended "vacuum/ suction" configuration

 

MrPep,
Thanks,
Fabing the mount: Make sure to do some measuring. That area is very tight. You might get some rubbing if you have the zenons with headlight washers. Also make sure you place the screw ends of the hose clamps for Alta so that the top one does not rub on the headlight housing. I had to fill in with JB weld an area on the headlight housing where the hose clamp screw rubbed. Painted it with bumper paint and it fixed the problem. Our MINI's are an art of cramming as much engine in such a small space. No wonder this engine get really hot during operation. I have to read this monster I started and get a laugh out of it.

 

Thanks for the heads up...we do have the zenon w/ washers.

To think, this thread just started out with a simple picture of two ALTA oil catch cans.....now it.....

ROTFLMAO

 

Thanks TwoMINIs! Nice....'X' Pan Am FA.

Wait, that is right we are still talking about the ALTA OCC.

 

"What you're trying to prove is that a supercharger can create a vacuum. Well duh! It's a pump." Wow, you finally admitted it. Sure took you a while, and a lot of useless blathering.

 

PAUSE ENTERTAINING BICKERING

Is it just because the props are spinning so fast that it looks like it is solid white in each of the engines?

RESUME ENTERTAINING BICKERING

 

OK I give up....How do I remove the OCC and go back to the factory setting??

Also, Will be selling one OCC - Alta Red.

Anyone with information??? Thanks.

 

The sudden DROP in pressure in front of the engine causes supersaturation of the air (instant clouds).

 

Ooooh... Cool. Thanks!