Looks like the backlog is easing.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=73767

 

bump for an update. any chance for some actual numbers?

 

check post #6 for starters....... I hope Matt (Dr. O) gets one soon

 

should have made myself clearer..

bump for an update - has doc o got a dfic to fiddle with yet.

 

Dear Skuzy.....

I am sure that you and every one else will know when Matt receives his unit.
We are still filling back orders, and paying customers always come first.

Thank you for the bump....

peter
Dream M7
562-608-8123

 

Matt's was supposed to ship last week on 8/1/06 so he probably already has it. I am confident the numbers will look good. Everyone who has the DFIC says the difference is substantial.

 

iam more intrigued than anything else over this system.. but nuff said.. ill just have to wait.

 

very true..... I have talked with a few new DFIC owners and all have confirmed my asssesmnt.... this thing rocks....

 

Yeah...what he said Msfitoy's been running reeeeelly strong

 

Being a new DFIC owner and I have to concur. I'm from the land of heatsoak (Florida) so a cool day for me is 80s and run most of the time in the 90s. I went from stock to a GTT and felt a noticeable improvement. I then went from the GTT to the DFIC and felt another level of improvement.

I think the vertical nature of the DFIC permits air flow to start sooner. I think the horizontals require a higher speed to create the downward pressure to begin working. Also having a larger exit path (no obstruction what so ever) just makes a better flow thru than the horizontals.

SpideyX and I have spoken comparing notes and we both agree that the cars just seem to maintain their top performance or strength. Bear in mind that we are both southern boys so our comments are from running in the 90s. Someone from up north may not sense the degree of impact as soon as we do.The only area we differ is that SpideyX put the DFIC higher up on the mod list priority than I do. But regardless of the Mod priority we give it, I think it makes both of our top 6 on the mod list .

 

FWIW, my GRS was a big improvement and the addition of the M7 extreme scoop was another noticeable difference. Perhaps one of the reasons for your perceived difference in the two units is because of the scoop??????

I'm all for selling my GRS for a DFIC, but since I'm more concerned about how the DFIC works on the track than around town, I wonder, especially with the 62 coming out, what kind of heat soak will set in during extended laps. The unit just seems "small" to me. The stock intercooler used to load up after about 10 minutes(outside temp dependent of course) and I have noticed this happening to the GRS just a little bit. Remember, I'm running around a 19% with all of the other added flow?

Any ideas/observations?

 

I do think the scoop is a factor and I am of the opinion that for the budget enthusiast, you do the scoop and keep your IC. I also think quality of seal is very important which I think GRS addressed very well.

Size. Did you see my pic of the DFIC next to the GTT ? Does the word dinky come to mind? Here is one more argument that size does not matter .

On the track performance will be interesting. Here is were input from Matt and TonyB will be helpful to the serious types like yourself and I would wait until there is such data.

 

The scoop is a factor .... no doubt.... the day we did the test on the road I drove hard for about 45 minutes and never experienced "soak"... I guess it can be done... I just haven't experienced it yet

 

A couple thoughts.

1. No matter what design an IC will reach a temp saturation point. An IC is a thermal mass. The larger the mass the longer the frequency of change. It will stabilize dependent on it's thermal efficiency.

2. Heat soak under static conditions is a different matter and the 2 need kept separate for some parts of theses discussions.

Getting hot in the pits is far different than charge cooling under motion.


It's always a compromise. Thinking one IC can do everything is just wrong. Might it be best for your needs is the real consideration.

I do agree that a well designed scoop can make significant differences in IC performance.

 

I'm all for selling my GRS for a DFIC, but since I'm more concerned about how the DFIC works on the track than around town, I wonder, especially with the 62 coming out, what kind of heat soak will set in during extended laps. The unit just seems "small" to me. The stock intercooler used to load up after about 10 minutes(outside temp dependent of course) and I have noticed this happening to the GRS just a little bit. Remember, I'm running around a 19% with all of the other added flow?

Any ideas/observations?[/quote]

I think that perhaps the size comparison is not valid in this case as you are comparing two completely different cooling paths . Taking a poor design flow wise, the stock intercooler , and making it bigger does not necessarily improve it . You have lost some boost due to the extra volume and you still have to have the incoming air make two 90 degree turns to hopefully exit out thru that small gap over a hot engine. With the DFIC the air has a straight shot thru the intercooler and then out over the top of the motor providing additional cooling for the engine bay as a nice added bonus . Another fact worth mentioning is that the internal volume of the DFIC is greater that the stock in addition to being better designed core wise. All in all we feel this adds up to the best intercooler on the market and the great amount of positive reports from those that actually have the units seems to back up our thoughts.

randy
M7 Tuning

 

C'mon Randy, where are the DYNO numbers!!?? The DYNO is KING, the DYNO knows all. It's just crap without DYNO numbers!
(even though there is no possble way to replicate actual air flow through an intercooler like driving it on the street/track) The DYNO is the way to go!!! Bow down to the DYNO! DYNO! DYNO! DYNO!

sorry i lost my head there for a minute

 

This is a confusing statement, and I don't think it's right from how I read it. Basically, the design of heat exchangers is such that they reach saturation very quickly. This means that the metal, body, casing, and fins, are efficiently transfering heat from the charge air to the metal. Fortunately, they are also designed to transfer that heat away from the metal to the air that is flowing through it. Given this design characteristic, it physically doesn't make sense for an intercooler to reach a saturation point under motion if the flow is sufficient. So I don't think that anyone can experience a heat saturation of the DFIC if the flow is not restricted. Same concept with the stock and aftermarket units, but I can see it happening with the stock IC based on the design.

If the car bogs down after a time on the track, I'd start to investigate other areas of concern, and not the DFIC. Just my thoughts.

 

I am not saying the car bogs down. All I was implying is that you can tell that the acceleration is not as crisp. Are you implying that the delta between inlet and outlet will remain about the same whether lap 1 or lap 20?

 

I was also confused by the statement about saturation. I've got quit a bit of data (in my head and some on paper) concerning the stock intercooler and my new "aftercooler." And from what I can tell cooling for any unit (whatever its limitations) depends upon the ambient temperature, the length of allowable cooling time, and the speed you are traveling. My track testing was done at a whopping 108 deg F heat index. I know what works and what doesn't!

 

Not exactly, but if the delta does not remain fairly consistent, then you have either a poor design for the intercooler and flow is not maintained, or some other part of the intake path is causing that issue.

 

Got it. Thanks

 

Let me rephrase it and it'll make more sense.
The IC will heat up right? Yes.

At some point, based on thermal efficiency, speed, humidity, etc it will reach a point where it will get no warmer right? Yes.

Under these conditions it will have become saturated or will have absorbed as much heat as it can. Yes? Yes.

Change any of the variables and the saturation point changes.

I find it odd that you have an issue with what I said and yet in your second sentence ( which I have conveniently bolded and italicized :D ) you say what I did using mildly different words

I mean seriously you directly contradict yourself in the above statement. You say heat exchangers saturate and then you say they can't saturate under motion. What magic occurs under motion that I'm not aware of.

If you don't like me that's fine but don't pick at what I say just for grins. Ask me to clear it up first. Then pick it apart.

 

See post #222.

 

First, I said it was a confusing statement. Not that I disagreed with you, just that how you phrased it was confusing. I added my interpretation of the behavior to convey my thoughts on the matter.

Second, I did not contradict myself. They are designed to saturate quickly, as this spreads the heat over the whole surface. Under motion, and consequently flow, the IC cannot saturate, because if it did then you would never achieve any amount of cooling of the intake charge. They are designed to saturate quickly, but while air is flowing through it, and is at a cooler temperature, it will never saturate. It won't be allowed to reach the point where it can get no warmer based on the thermal mass.

Under motion, it won't matter if it's been 2, 20, or 200 laps. The intercooler will not alter it's behavior, within the bounds of the ambient temp changing, etc. If the behavior changes, then something is wrong with the design of the flow. The idea I was refering to was that the performance of the car changed with time/laps, and simply stating that a properly design IC setup won't cause this. If the design is proper, and something changes (throttle response), then the IC is not to blame.

Given the physical properties of the intercooler, there is an inherent contradiction in your two statements that I have bolded. If the first is correct, the second must be false. It has to be able to get warmer if it is to transfer heat away from the intake charge, hence it is not saturated under motion. If the second is correct, then you are not moving.

Third, I really have no problem with you at all. None whatsoever I actually think very highly of you. You seem to think I'm out to get you for some reason, and I don't know why. Try not reading so much into my posts. I'm not going to be out to get anyone, I'm just trying to help.

 

Hmm.

I think our sticking point is the saturation thing. I'll assume I'm not getting my thoughts across because I think we're saying the same thing differently.

sat·u·rate

1. To imbue or impregnate thoroughly: “The recollection was saturated with sunshine” (Vladimir Nabokov). See Synonyms at charge.
2. To soak, fill, or load to capacity.
3. Chemistry. To cause (a substance) to unite with the greatest possible amount of another substance.

Pay particular attention to 2 & 3. That's what I'm getting at. The IC will get as warm as it can under given conditions.
It has to and that is exactly what you have said.

Like this.
At 30MPH the IC oulet temp stabilzes at 90º. Let's say for grins this equates to an upper surface external temp of 100º. At this point the IC has heated to it's maximum capacity under these conditions. It's saturated.

At 50mph we may drop to 80 and 90º respectively.

These are of course made up numbers and would be very dependent on ambient, humidity, gearing, boost, etc.

At any point the IC will have reached at temp where it is holding as much heat as it can under the defined conditions. That is saturation.

Now to touch on the other part of my original statement. A larger IC will hold a larger volume of heat at a given temp. This aspect favors the DFIC. That was the intent of my statement. Someone has said it looked too small. My question was too small for what?
The smaller IC will heat and cool quicker than, for example my GRS, based on it's smaller thermal mass.

The single major, maybe only, advantage to the larger IC is during rapid acceleration.
Let's say a stock IC and my GRS are both at 80º at a 20mph roll. I push as hard as I can to 100mph. Based on the larger mass and slower rise time when I hit 100mph the larger IC will be cooler. We have to assume for the sake of discussion that both units have identical efficiencies. So we maintain 100mph on a straight and then slow for a corner. Here the smaller IC wins. Both will have absorbed the maximum amount of heat they can under these conditions but the smaller unit will have to lose a smaller volume of heat.

Like I said, no IC can do everything and performance is always a compromise.

Misunderstanding your intentions is totally my fault and for that I apologize.
Maybe it's just the overexposure to all the sh!+ flinging that has been going on around here lately.