might be needed here. In case you are racing for money, what's with all the mods?
Feel ain't real and I'd wager you were on a cheap, worthless dyno rather than an eddy-current with a proper fan setup.
For those actually searching for information your disinformation is damaging at best.

 

DMH, for clarification, is the the 204 deg number the water temp, or the pre-i/c temp? If indeed it's the water temp, do you have a record of the pre-i/c temp? That number might help the comparison discussion, since it would illustrate the effect of the i/c & scoop combo you were running.

 

that the ICs tests give higher TEs at cruise, and lowest at WOT @ Red-Line. this has to do with relative amounts of air through the intake (max at high rpm and load) vs cooling air (pretty much fixed at any given speed).

Sad truth is the the only real way to get good numbers it a repeatable test "loop" and, this is the bit*h, automatic data logging equipment, (where do I pick up a Jenn for my car ). There are so many variables to look at for any given instant.

Matt

 

It was in response to your "are you sure?" Which to me is the equivalent of "are you telling the truth?". No, I'm just making stuff up here. (sarcasm, fyi)

Every person I know who has one, says they can clearly tell the difference.

Different things work for different cars and people are not shy on here about saying when things don't work. Everyone I know with a DFIC is quite happy.. just like Tuls is quite happy with his Alta, it works for him and that's what matters.

 

Man, chill out and have some respect for people. If someone is happy trying things out, then what's the issue? I guess you might be missing his point, but I know for a fact that Spider is just a cool guy who happens to enjoy this hobby. It means something to him. It's not anyone's business to question him about that, much less criticize him. Please, lighten up... Everyone has a freedom of autonomy, and this must be respected, especially if it's a healthy one.

BTW, as a soon-to-be member of the medical community, I hope that you won't continue to make jokes about mental health. It conveys a lack of understanding and a disregard for true mental illness, a real problem which is potentially quite debilitating for the patient and their loved ones and widely misunderstood by the general public. Throwing charges like these around without understanding only serves to perpetuate the problem. Please.

 

I am following most of the arguments except for the one that I hear often: "all cars are different, and things might work differently on your car than mine" to paraphrase. Given that every MINI comes off the same assembly line and that most of the options and choices made by buyers are pretty cosmetic, don't our cars share about 99% of design, and 95% of components with each other? Where are the differences, then?
I'm pretty confident that a DFIC would make about the same difference (or not) to my car as to SpiderXs or Dr Obnxs'. My recent experience with installing a header (that has a small leak) proves to me that under-bonnet heat is perhaps the biggest problem the MINI suffers from, especially when the ambient temperature is 90deg+ (in New Mexico.) Some things are easier to change than others, and so getting header heat out of the engine bay via some form of coating and shielding is essential and maybe not to hard to achieve. Getting cool intake air and keeping it cool is the next priority, so the DFIC seems to be a great advance IMO.
Anyway, just my 0.02.
cheers,

 

For throttle response, there will be a big improvement, due to less backpressure (this is what I found with the Alta proto).
For TEs, who knows.
For overall air density improvemnents, I expect denser air out the DFIC, but I don't know how it will break down into temp vs pressure.

I think when the next large batch is done, I'll get one to play with.

Matt

 

Well, within this thread, Tuls speaks of his Alta.. his car is NOT what came off the MINI assembly line. And I think it could better be said as "what people want from their cars is different, things might work for you better than they work for me" instead of just talking about the machine itself.

And I'm under the impression that most people who make the choice to buy an aftermarket intercooler are past the average go-fast mods. And on top of that, people drive different and want different things out of their mods. Some people want to see the most effect at WOT and some want more low end, most people I know that take their modding seriously, are modding for themselves and not just doing what others suggest.

 

Totally agree with the asymmetrical scoop being a good option.

 

I just saw this.... you have to be kidding.... I have had my car on six-seven different dynos of varying manufacturers.... I'm sure that several of these shops would love to take issue with this comment including Hesco in Birmingham, AL. Lee Hurley is a legend.....his office is 205 251 1472 or lee@hesco.us...I'm sure he would love to hear your comments about his credentials and the integrity of his work

as for mods.... my car is a hobby in which I have some passion.... what's it to you

your comment about disinformation is an insult......plain and simple....read the books "blink" and then "think"..... feel in 3 dimensions ie. flying a plane under the hood without instruments you lose your stability in 30 -60 seconds... has to do with inner ear and other physiology, is not real.... however with the advantage of a horizon and knowledge of my car based upon several dynos.... I think I can tell if something is working....or not....there are, as I already stated some mods I had great hopes for that did nothing...I do not tout mods that I do not believe in just because I have them..... I prefer not to embarrass or demean mfgs. perhaps you would think me more credible if I trashed a few folks/products.

It seems you have a bad case of NIH (not invented here) syndrom...if you don't come up with it , it must not be true/real...... you make reference to 'maybe on the track' it might make a difference..... many of us drive our cars aggressively/safely on roads like the dragon and appreciate "track like performance" you just have a problem with me because i called BS on your intake thread

I'm sure you have lots of experience but yours are not the only experiences that exist.....

speaking of psychological diagnosis, I just saw that, what does it say about a man who over reacts to post on a web site and throws pepples thinking they are boulders.....maybe you need some couch time my friend.

If you can tone down your rhetoric, I can tone down mine,.... we may just get along.

 

The reason I make the comment 'your car may have different results' is that many vendors make claims "dyno-proven" that are very hard to prove due to the difficulties recreating the exact testing conditions...posts on this are everywhere including this thread.....I have added parts to my engine that frankly did nothing that were supposed to do "X WHP".... to a recent example is moving from the street cam to the race cam..... I was told that I would lose low end power by well known people including the NA importer..... it did not happen... in fact the low end power got a very nice boost..... I have learned, the hard way, that all these mods don't necessarily "play nice" with each other and in some cases you can have subtraction by addition...as well as additions you don't expect re. the cam reference...... so just to be as neutral as possible and to allow for things I know nothing about.. I make statements about things that I have personally experienced not the opposite.

 

and he is great at tuning race engines. You have a street car. His dynos are wonderful but not for your application; for one you'll burn your tires up. You want to be searching for an eddy-current dyno with a proper fan setup.

Secondly, there is a thread going on about CAIs and I think I have been found correct: CAIs only work on the track but they cut down the flow on the street.

Furthermore, “it's” nothing to me other than the dissemination of disinformation. Your hobby is fine, your data was enlightening, but your subjectivity was nonsensical. People search the forums in search of answers/information. Thus, I think it would be to everyone’s benefit to just stick to the facts. "Feel ain't real."

And I have much to say about the book Blinking, just nothing nice. (In and out of my career I have earned an advanced degree in psychology from Seton Hall. I was once a practicing sport psychologist working mostly with junior tennis players. Life has changed and I just don’t have the time to do it full-time anymore.)

Your enthusiasm is a wonderful thing. However, the terms "aggressively" and "safely" on the street do not go together. That is track lingo. And driving “The Dragon” does not in any way replicate a track experience by an expert driver. [/FONT]

 

If you are speaking of the Shrick, all else being equal, it will lose low end power by definition due to the grind. The manufacturer knows this and stated this.
This is what I mean by "feel ain't real." It is my sincere hope that you will gain some insight from those who have come before you. Truly.[/FONT]

 

Dude, you definitely have some issues. How are you going to say "feel ain't real" (nice grammar BTW) when Spider clearly noticed an increase in low-end after installing the cam? The increase was just his imagination? Maybe you need to step down and go preach somewhere else.

 

You really may know it all. But acting like a know-it-all is not the way to influence people... though it has been tried on this forum...

 

Dude, you definitely have some issues. How are you going to say "feel ain't real" (nice grammar BTW) when Spider clearly noticed an increase in low-end after installing the cam? The increase was just his imagination? Maybe you need to step down and go preach somewhere else.[/quote]

At the beginning of this thread I found his data helpful was all.
What happens is that the good gets driven out by the bad. From my limited time on NAM I have noticed that a few people with experience have just given up. This phenomenon was recognized by Any Rand who wrote that in an argument irrationality will always win over rationality by definition.
Read what every race cam manufacture claims concerning the compromise made between top-end/low-end power then read SpiderX's assertions. What else needs to be said?

 

At the beginning of this thread I found his data helpful was all.
What happens is that the good gets driven out by the bad. From my limited time on NAM I have noticed that a few people with experience have just given up. This phenomenon was recognized by Any Rand who wrote that in an argument irrationality will always win over rationality by definition.
Read what every race cam manufacture claims concerning the compromise made between top-end/low-end power then read SpiderX's assertions. What else needs to be said?[/quote]

It's Ayn Rand

 

There is so much I can say about your response but I have other things to do...I will for the benefit of your credibility, because someone might believe your disinformation, correct you.....no, the book is "Blink" by Malcolm Caldwell.... how could a man of your obvious distinction and "letters" make such a oversight as to build an arguement on a false presumption....

What is funny is that I read over my comments and I stated an opinion based on my experience with my car.

As far as Lee in concerned....have you been to his shop... he tunes all kinds of street cars.... your information is misleading at best and actually rediculous......

and,.... you are a vendor as your signature implies MTH.........regardless of your disagreements with me and my style, do you really think this is helping MTH......I am and have been a manufacturers representative for over 25 years and have heard what I thought were some pretty rediculous things from customers before but I found a more diplomatic way to get my point across......do I see your point,...yes....I do not however like your "I'm the expert style" you have not driven my car before and after etc.... your assertions are really just supposition as you have no real data on the car in question ... but as a man with an "advanced degree," should you not know that your arguement is based on what you "think" without empirical data on the subject of the arguement..... I'm sure in your world you can intimidate many people with these kinds of statements but not here...not me...

like I said if you can tone down your rhetoric there is much I would like to learn about your history and your experience with racing....this is my second olive branch.

have a nice day.

 

and never claimed to. I’m still learning every day. See my post to Randy Webb over the weekend and in it I say something like I practically learned everything I know from Peter Dawe of Porsche fame. I also bounce many things off those I think are knowledgeable. Just ask Dr. O how many times I've asked him questions! I've been doing this kind of stuff, including professional racing, for something like 30 years. That’s how I fed myself. (One of my thread titles to Randy started off: Yes, I remember the early '70s well.) I actually remember some of the late ‘60s!

 

It's Ayn Rand[/quote]

Ayn is of course what I meant.

 

Chest thumping is very effective.
Dropping names helps too.

 

However, as an MTH representative I do think it is my job to be honest. I don't sell it to get rich but because I do not think there is a better software product available.

Concerning cams it is not what I know only but rather what all cam grinders know. Top-end or low end, it can't be both.

I really do want to thank you and all who post data such as IC temps. This interests me a lot because I am trying to figure out what actually works and what doesn't. So please, let's keep that going. (I'm busy trying to run down an E30 M3 and I am 5 seconds off the pace at The Glen.)

One thing I will say, I do like the sound of the AGS!

 

/insert distraction

Oh look! Kittens in cups!




Now stop it.



1) Hey Dr. O, what do you think of these results?

2) I will be PMing once I can wade back through this thread and find who offered me a test date logging sheet. It will be used.

 

I was just about to say that most of page 3 turned into a ****-fest, huh?

 

I'm calling PETA! Drinking kittens

It was me that offered the sheet. It's a good starting point at least.