Drivetrain Intercooler Mods
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4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Toronto, Canada
Seems Alta will soon have a larger Intercooler available requiring no mods and coming with a new air diverter with water spray.
http://www.altaminiperformance.com./PRESS/PRESS.htm
Paul
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Denver
Paul,
Yep, they are using PWR to build it. MINI-Motorsport and MINI-Madness are sharing development cost on another intercooler that is in fact slightly smaller (built to the capacity of the MINI) than the Alta unit.
We still haven't determined when it will be available, and it of course has to go through the entire eval process still.
This unit will be evaluated as well, so we can make direct comparisons - stock, Alta, MINI-Motorsport. There will probably be advantages to both systems, so I may even end up carrying both.
Hope that helps!
Randy
Yep, they are using PWR to build it. MINI-Motorsport and MINI-Madness are sharing development cost on another intercooler that is in fact slightly smaller (built to the capacity of the MINI) than the Alta unit.
We still haven't determined when it will be available, and it of course has to go through the entire eval process still.
This unit will be evaluated as well, so we can make direct comparisons - stock, Alta, MINI-Motorsport. There will probably be advantages to both systems, so I may even end up carrying both.
Hope that helps!
Randy
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4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Toronto, Canada
>>Yep, they are using PWR to build it. MINI-Motorsport and MINI-Madness are sharing development cost on another intercooler that is in fact slightly smaller (built to the capacity of the MINI) than the Alta unit.
>>
Very cool. Any chance of getting an Intercooler that doesn't sit on TOP of the engine? Is there anywhere to put such a beast?
>>We still haven't determined when it will be available, and it of course has to go through the entire eval process still.
>>
Can you try and test on a stock car and car with 15% pulley? Just keep us posted.
>>This unit will be evaluated as well, so we can make direct comparisons - stock, Alta, MINI-Motorsport. There will probably be advantages to both systems, so I may even end up carrying both.
>>
Gut feeling do you see this making much of a difference? The larger buys you better cooling of the intake air does it also flow more air? Would something like this be an air-intake level price or are we talking more like exhaust price range? I have no idea what something like this costs and just want a feeling if I should even get my hopes up for it.
Paul
>>
Very cool. Any chance of getting an Intercooler that doesn't sit on TOP of the engine? Is there anywhere to put such a beast?
>>We still haven't determined when it will be available, and it of course has to go through the entire eval process still.
>>
Can you try and test on a stock car and car with 15% pulley? Just keep us posted.
>>This unit will be evaluated as well, so we can make direct comparisons - stock, Alta, MINI-Motorsport. There will probably be advantages to both systems, so I may even end up carrying both.
>>
Gut feeling do you see this making much of a difference? The larger buys you better cooling of the intake air does it also flow more air? Would something like this be an air-intake level price or are we talking more like exhaust price range? I have no idea what something like this costs and just want a feeling if I should even get my hopes up for it.
Paul
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,382
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From: Denver
Paul,
Exhaust price range.
On top of the engine is best from a packaging perspective. We are researching the possibilities of a front mount cooler though.
I would definitely try it out on both the 15% and stock pulley.
Gut feeling - this would make a difference for sure, especially on the pulley equipped cars. There is more heat generated with the Roots style blower when you get into higher boost levels, so the larger intercooler would help cure this problem. That said, you can definitely go too big with an intercooler. We aren't designing an intercooler for a 2.5 liter displacement supercharger. We'll see how it all works out. Right now, the delay is with PWR.
Exhaust price range.
On top of the engine is best from a packaging perspective. We are researching the possibilities of a front mount cooler though.
I would definitely try it out on both the 15% and stock pulley.
Gut feeling - this would make a difference for sure, especially on the pulley equipped cars. There is more heat generated with the Roots style blower when you get into higher boost levels, so the larger intercooler would help cure this problem. That said, you can definitely go too big with an intercooler. We aren't designing an intercooler for a 2.5 liter displacement supercharger. We'll see how it all works out. Right now, the delay is with PWR.
Thread Starter
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4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 344
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From: Toronto, Canada
>>Paul,
>>
>>Exhaust price range.
>>
>>On top of the engine is best from a packaging perspective. We are researching the possibilities of a front mount cooler though.
>>
>>I would definitely try it out on both the 15% and stock pulley.
>>
>>Gut feeling - this would make a difference for sure, especially on the pulley equipped cars. There is more heat generated with the Roots style blower when you get into higher boost levels, so the larger intercooler would help cure this problem. That said, you can definitely go too big with an intercooler. We aren't designing an intercooler for a 2.5 liter displacement supercharger. We'll see how it all works out. Right now, the delay is with PWR.
Great, I can't wait to hear how the testing goes. :smile:
Paul
>>
>>Exhaust price range.
>>
>>On top of the engine is best from a packaging perspective. We are researching the possibilities of a front mount cooler though.
>>
>>I would definitely try it out on both the 15% and stock pulley.
>>
>>Gut feeling - this would make a difference for sure, especially on the pulley equipped cars. There is more heat generated with the Roots style blower when you get into higher boost levels, so the larger intercooler would help cure this problem. That said, you can definitely go too big with an intercooler. We aren't designing an intercooler for a 2.5 liter displacement supercharger. We'll see how it all works out. Right now, the delay is with PWR.
Great, I can't wait to hear how the testing goes. :smile:
Paul
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From: Oregon
Randy,
First of all, PWR had nothing to do with our design and outcome of our intercooler. Our intercooler uses the largest core possible without cutting or modifying the hood or any other engine part. When you see our intercooler (which is done and being driven right now) you will see why ours will be the nicest and the highest quality around. (Randy call us if you want to know a few other details that we are not going to release to the public yet:-)
Next week the MINI with the I/C goes to the dyno for final HP and torque testing. By the way our intake made 12-15 WHP, yes wheel HP, last week! No other mods on the car other than the intake. The results were consistent and repeatable.
EDUCATION TIME!
As for anyone that has experience in designing an intercooler, you know that bigger is better. Of course if you have a core that measures 100"x20"x60", then you might have a problem, mainly because it is too thick and the pressure drop will be too much. Additionally, an intercooler which is too thick is less efficient. It is all about surface area vs. pressure drop, vs. temp drop. Especially when we are talking about a top mount IC that is already confined to a small area, there is NEVER going to be an IC that is TOO big in this situation.
If our IC had a pressure drop of 1PSI or more then that would be something to worry about, but it doesn't. The company that makes the core, has a large diesel IC core that is 60"x4"x40" and this core has a pressure drop of only .75 PSI. What causes a pressure drop is the core being too restrictive, not nessecarly the volume. Some cores use too many fins per square inch which causes a restriction, resulting in the pressure drop.
The core we use has a tested pressure drop approximately .2 PSI. The stock one, having more fins per inch, has shown drops higher than this.
We, at ALTA Mini Performance have been very quiet, until now. We have a lot of new parts that will be availible in a few weeks. Check the website later today for previews and new product releases. If I can answer any other specific questions, please call or e-mail. we are always happy to help!
Jeff
ALTA Mini Performance
jeff@altaminiperformance.com
First of all, PWR had nothing to do with our design and outcome of our intercooler. Our intercooler uses the largest core possible without cutting or modifying the hood or any other engine part. When you see our intercooler (which is done and being driven right now) you will see why ours will be the nicest and the highest quality around. (Randy call us if you want to know a few other details that we are not going to release to the public yet:-)
Next week the MINI with the I/C goes to the dyno for final HP and torque testing. By the way our intake made 12-15 WHP, yes wheel HP, last week! No other mods on the car other than the intake. The results were consistent and repeatable.
EDUCATION TIME!
As for anyone that has experience in designing an intercooler, you know that bigger is better. Of course if you have a core that measures 100"x20"x60", then you might have a problem, mainly because it is too thick and the pressure drop will be too much. Additionally, an intercooler which is too thick is less efficient. It is all about surface area vs. pressure drop, vs. temp drop. Especially when we are talking about a top mount IC that is already confined to a small area, there is NEVER going to be an IC that is TOO big in this situation.
If our IC had a pressure drop of 1PSI or more then that would be something to worry about, but it doesn't. The company that makes the core, has a large diesel IC core that is 60"x4"x40" and this core has a pressure drop of only .75 PSI. What causes a pressure drop is the core being too restrictive, not nessecarly the volume. Some cores use too many fins per square inch which causes a restriction, resulting in the pressure drop.
The core we use has a tested pressure drop approximately .2 PSI. The stock one, having more fins per inch, has shown drops higher than this.
We, at ALTA Mini Performance have been very quiet, until now. We have a lot of new parts that will be availible in a few weeks. Check the website later today for previews and new product releases. If I can answer any other specific questions, please call or e-mail. we are always happy to help!
Jeff
ALTA Mini Performance
jeff@altaminiperformance.com
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,831
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
We, at ALTA Mini Performance have been very quiet, until now. We have a lot of new parts that will be availible in a few weeks. Check the website later today for previews and new product releases. If I can answer any other specific questions, please call or e-mail. we are always happy to help!
Jeff
ALTA Mini Performance
Jeff
ALTA Mini Performance
Warranty implications?
Do you need someone in a hot dry environment to do some testing?
Dominic from Phoenix
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,382
Likes: 2
From: Denver
Just talked with Jeff - exciting things are brewing!
I can't divulge everything, but look for some very trick parts to be developed in a partnership with MINI-Motorsport and ALTA.
The intercooler is on a car now, and was designed by ALTA, just as Jeff said. PWR is simply supplying parts. I should have one here in the next 2-3 weeks. We will be doing the full evaluation on it - track testing, pocket logger numbers, and of course dyno testing.
As the information becomes less "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you", I'll be sharing the developments here on MCO.
Exciting times for the MINI community.
I know you guys like teasers, so here are a couple that I've been keeping up my sleeve - these aren't related to ALTA, so it's safe to tell.
The LEDAs are finalized, and the pricing may even come down from the original numbers. I've had them on the car now, and the rates are just about worked out. Very trick stuff.
The stage 1 brake kit is finished, and after the final track testing (after they dig out the track), will be made available. The Stage 2 brake kit will be next - I'm trying to develop something with Brembo calipers that fits under a 16" wheel.
The software situation is up in the air, with the piggy back stuff ready, and the flash programming still under development.
A new swaybar is being developed by MINI-Motorsport as well - stay tuned.
The camber plates are up and running, and just need to be dialed in. They are available with or without a stress brace.
The H-Sport suspension pieces are here as well, and we've been doing the eval on those. Stay tuned for the full report on springs, camber plates and swaybars.
Intake developments are in the works too - using some very trick materials...
What a great job I have!
I can't divulge everything, but look for some very trick parts to be developed in a partnership with MINI-Motorsport and ALTA.
The intercooler is on a car now, and was designed by ALTA, just as Jeff said. PWR is simply supplying parts. I should have one here in the next 2-3 weeks. We will be doing the full evaluation on it - track testing, pocket logger numbers, and of course dyno testing.
As the information becomes less "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you", I'll be sharing the developments here on MCO.
Exciting times for the MINI community.
I know you guys like teasers, so here are a couple that I've been keeping up my sleeve - these aren't related to ALTA, so it's safe to tell.
The LEDAs are finalized, and the pricing may even come down from the original numbers. I've had them on the car now, and the rates are just about worked out. Very trick stuff.
The stage 1 brake kit is finished, and after the final track testing (after they dig out the track), will be made available. The Stage 2 brake kit will be next - I'm trying to develop something with Brembo calipers that fits under a 16" wheel.
The software situation is up in the air, with the piggy back stuff ready, and the flash programming still under development.
A new swaybar is being developed by MINI-Motorsport as well - stay tuned.
The camber plates are up and running, and just need to be dialed in. They are available with or without a stress brace.
The H-Sport suspension pieces are here as well, and we've been doing the eval on those. Stay tuned for the full report on springs, camber plates and swaybars.
Intake developments are in the works too - using some very trick materials...
What a great job I have!
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Northern VA
What about a fully-watercooled intercooler such as the one "Targa" (from M2) did to his car here: http://mini2.com/forum/showthread.ph...threadid=27146
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 163
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From: Costa Mesa, CA
>> Next week the MINI with the I/C goes to the dyno for final HP and torque testing. By the way our intake made 12-15 WHP, yes wheel HP, last week! No other mods on the car other than the intake. The results were consistent and repeatable.
Is the intake for sale? Because I couldn't find it on the website.
Is the intake for sale? Because I couldn't find it on the website.
Temporarily Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,382
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From: Denver
>>What about a fully-watercooled intercooler such as the one "Targa" (from M2) did to his car here: http://mini2.com/forum/showthread.ph...threadid=27146
I'm already in talks with Targa and jlm about producing this set-up as well. The issue is keeping the water used to cool the intercooler from getting heat soaked. Porsche had this problem with some of the 935s. I'm discussing it right now with Targa, so hopefully the data I can collect will tell me what the issues are.
The intake isn't quite available, but it totally removes the partition that I have done the mod too, and uses a much larger filter that goes into this area. It looks promising - but I'll wait to make any hp claims until I have it up on the dyno.
I'm already in talks with Targa and jlm about producing this set-up as well. The issue is keeping the water used to cool the intercooler from getting heat soaked. Porsche had this problem with some of the 935s. I'm discussing it right now with Targa, so hopefully the data I can collect will tell me what the issues are.
The intake isn't quite available, but it totally removes the partition that I have done the mod too, and uses a much larger filter that goes into this area. It looks promising - but I'll wait to make any hp claims until I have it up on the dyno.
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