Drivetrain Increase Horsepower
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
So you want big power? Try this, and you'll need some dough, too. buy the pully for supercharger and put bolt on flanges on either side of your catalytic converter, then bolt in a straight pipe, aka "test" pipe, "for off road use only". Eliminating the cats will boost you a good 20-30 hp. This you will really feel. Bolting in the supercharger pulley will bring your torque curve down, but because the supercharger is a roots type, it chops up the air, and spinning it faster will create more heat, which means more risk to the engine over prolonged immediated stretches. For example you'd be fine with a couple of launches at the drag strip but not all day.
If you want to be sure about the heat thing, install an exhaust gas temperature gage, and a knock sensor gage that outputs a "tattle tale" knock sum. If you detect high heat back off. If you are knocking, lower the boost/change the pulley to a more moderate size. You can also go to a colder range spark plug.
Cost for the pulley installed I would guess around $200, test pipe at a muffler shop, $100 max, egt/knock sensor $200-750 installed.
If you want bigger horsepower out of this engine, it is achievable, but you may play with disaster if you are not careful. Control your heat and detonation and you could get lucky and push 300 hp plus. Here's how;
Bolt on a turbocharger to the exhaust manifold (a good tuner with fabrication facilities can help you. You'll need to run oil and water lines and find a spot for a secondary intercooler). This will really aid with your top end. With it you'll need to upgrade fuel system (injectors, fuel pump, and maybe rails and lines), Mass air flow sensor (if the existing one can't handle, which i'm almost sure it can't. You might want to borrow one from an M3 or M5) and add a boost controller. And you may need to re-map your ECU. There's a guy at Technosquare in Los Angeles who does this for Japanese cars like the evo, wrx, supra, etc... . and he may be able to help find the mapping.
If you do the above, all the tuners, including me will reccommend you pull the engine and bore it, put stronger pistions, rods, bearings, crank, port the heads, and make the spark a lot hotter. To get the 300 hp number, you'll probably have to increase the boost to 25-30 pounds. Tuning has to be precise. Oh yeah, and the above will cost you;
Turbo with fabrication $2000 (TEC, Turbonetics, HKS, etc... will need lots of research)
Intercooler with fabrication; $1000
Fuel pump $200 (from m3 or m5 and may need a new pressure regulator too $100)
Injectors, 4, $500 (RC injectors can help you with sizing but you may want to stay with Bosch I think)
Rails may want to bore out with a drill if no aftermarket available.
Run bigger lines $200
Plugs, Copper, $20-40
Plug wires $100
Spark booster (if necessary, could feed back and burn ECU too) $700installed
Boost controller - Blitz is rumored to have the best on the market. HKS units are hard to set-up, but functional.
Mass air flow sensor -$250 - can get from a wrecking yard that has BMW's
ECU piggey back $750 -$2000 - need to find a good electronics guy that is familiar w/Mini's mapping
Pulling engine$300 to $1200 depending on who does it
$500 reinstall
Crank if you can get $250-1000 there may be ways to harden the stock crank
Pistons rings $600-$700 Arias, J.E. Etc avoid continuous seals
Rods $600-700 if you can find them
Port head $200-$500
Cam - send it to Mark Engle at Engle cams in Santa Monica CA. He can tell by looking at if anything further can be done. $??2- 500??
Exhaust - suggest custom. it's not that much more expensive if you've got the car torn down. Stay away from larger mufflers! they will drone in your car! 3 or 4 small ones will do the trick, you just have to be creative. $1000
Clutch $500-$2000 if available. Strongly suggest carbon fiber. You can slip them forever without burning them. It will be the only way to save your drive line. If enough people inquire with Rob Smith at RPS, he said he'll make one. They can chatter... .
Slave cylindar $200, may need to pull from an M3 or m5
I've probably left a few things out here but to sum up
180-200 hp with pulley with gages $1000 total
210-230 hp with test pipe $1100 total
You could just run the test pipe, and probably get close to 190 hp too.
The works 300-400 hp + if successful $Approximatly $16K
Now if you can find a mini with a blown engine and buy it for say $5K, put $16 into it and about 3 months of your life, you'll have a car that will blow the doors off of a Porshe turbo, viper, bmw, amg, for $21K! Of course in some US cities you have smog laws that will restrict your engines output.
If you want to be sure about the heat thing, install an exhaust gas temperature gage, and a knock sensor gage that outputs a "tattle tale" knock sum. If you detect high heat back off. If you are knocking, lower the boost/change the pulley to a more moderate size. You can also go to a colder range spark plug.
Cost for the pulley installed I would guess around $200, test pipe at a muffler shop, $100 max, egt/knock sensor $200-750 installed.
If you want bigger horsepower out of this engine, it is achievable, but you may play with disaster if you are not careful. Control your heat and detonation and you could get lucky and push 300 hp plus. Here's how;
Bolt on a turbocharger to the exhaust manifold (a good tuner with fabrication facilities can help you. You'll need to run oil and water lines and find a spot for a secondary intercooler). This will really aid with your top end. With it you'll need to upgrade fuel system (injectors, fuel pump, and maybe rails and lines), Mass air flow sensor (if the existing one can't handle, which i'm almost sure it can't. You might want to borrow one from an M3 or M5) and add a boost controller. And you may need to re-map your ECU. There's a guy at Technosquare in Los Angeles who does this for Japanese cars like the evo, wrx, supra, etc... . and he may be able to help find the mapping.
If you do the above, all the tuners, including me will reccommend you pull the engine and bore it, put stronger pistions, rods, bearings, crank, port the heads, and make the spark a lot hotter. To get the 300 hp number, you'll probably have to increase the boost to 25-30 pounds. Tuning has to be precise. Oh yeah, and the above will cost you;
Turbo with fabrication $2000 (TEC, Turbonetics, HKS, etc... will need lots of research)
Intercooler with fabrication; $1000
Fuel pump $200 (from m3 or m5 and may need a new pressure regulator too $100)
Injectors, 4, $500 (RC injectors can help you with sizing but you may want to stay with Bosch I think)
Rails may want to bore out with a drill if no aftermarket available.
Run bigger lines $200
Plugs, Copper, $20-40
Plug wires $100
Spark booster (if necessary, could feed back and burn ECU too) $700installed
Boost controller - Blitz is rumored to have the best on the market. HKS units are hard to set-up, but functional.
Mass air flow sensor -$250 - can get from a wrecking yard that has BMW's
ECU piggey back $750 -$2000 - need to find a good electronics guy that is familiar w/Mini's mapping
Pulling engine$300 to $1200 depending on who does it
$500 reinstall
Crank if you can get $250-1000 there may be ways to harden the stock crank
Pistons rings $600-$700 Arias, J.E. Etc avoid continuous seals
Rods $600-700 if you can find them
Port head $200-$500
Cam - send it to Mark Engle at Engle cams in Santa Monica CA. He can tell by looking at if anything further can be done. $??2- 500??
Exhaust - suggest custom. it's not that much more expensive if you've got the car torn down. Stay away from larger mufflers! they will drone in your car! 3 or 4 small ones will do the trick, you just have to be creative. $1000
Clutch $500-$2000 if available. Strongly suggest carbon fiber. You can slip them forever without burning them. It will be the only way to save your drive line. If enough people inquire with Rob Smith at RPS, he said he'll make one. They can chatter... .
Slave cylindar $200, may need to pull from an M3 or m5
I've probably left a few things out here but to sum up
180-200 hp with pulley with gages $1000 total
210-230 hp with test pipe $1100 total
You could just run the test pipe, and probably get close to 190 hp too.
The works 300-400 hp + if successful $Approximatly $16K
Now if you can find a mini with a blown engine and buy it for say $5K, put $16 into it and about 3 months of your life, you'll have a car that will blow the doors off of a Porshe turbo, viper, bmw, amg, for $21K! Of course in some US cities you have smog laws that will restrict your engines output.
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
I forgot to mention. Leave the supercharger in place and ADD the Turbocharger. The Supercharger has little lag and the turbo needs to spool up. The car in this configuration would operate like a twin turbo with no lag and a very fat torque curve and a power to weight ratio of 7-9 lbs per bhp. It's a bizarre thought but I heard this had been done with an OEM car in the 30's, a turbocharger feeding a super charger, it's just not very cost effective for an auto manufacturer to make.
This configuration would have both blowers feeding the intake manifold - if there was room.
This configuration would have both blowers feeding the intake manifold - if there was room.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
>>bolt in a straight pipe, aka "test" pipe, "for off road use only". Eliminating the cats will boost you a good 20-30 hp. >>You could just run the test pipe, and probably get close to 190 hp too.
>>
Ummm ... what are you basing this on? Any dyno tests?
>>
Ummm ... what are you basing this on? Any dyno tests?
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,359
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
>>Cost for the pully installed... $200, ha. Your talking 15 hours labor. Unless you're going to get it installed in China, it will cost a lot more than $200.>
Supercharger pulley takes about 4hrs to install I hear. Thats' more like $250 for installation and $200 for the pulley.
Supercharger pulley takes about 4hrs to install I hear. Thats' more like $250 for installation and $200 for the pulley.
Trending Topics
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
>>>>bolt in a straight pipe, aka "test" pipe, "for off road use only". Eliminating the cats will boost you a good 20-30 hp. >>You could just run the test pipe, and probably get close to 190 hp too.
>>>>
>>
>>Ummm ... what are you basing this on? Any dyno tests?
Drag strip. Similar configuration, better trap speed and time with and without. no dyno test. Most cats have screens used to deflect air into a chamber creating a ton of back pressure, even the so called high flow cats.
ATR makes a system that uses a u bolt. At high rpm and boost it would push the exhaust pipe back and it could be heard leaking. The car we tested weighed 3800 lbs with driver and fuel. With the cat it ran 13.1 at 109. Without it ran 12.5 at 115. You do the math. There are horsepower calculators all over the net you can plug the numbers into.
Here's one if you want to see;
http://www.mtv411.com/auto/Horsepowe...or.htm#HpWtSpd
Since the mini has a smaller engine I'm guessing the gain is less.
I know guys that have gotten similar results. The cats suck power. I'm guessing it would work based on my observations. You could also punch out the screens and get the same result.
Don't just take my word for it, ask around.
>>>>
>>
>>Ummm ... what are you basing this on? Any dyno tests?
Drag strip. Similar configuration, better trap speed and time with and without. no dyno test. Most cats have screens used to deflect air into a chamber creating a ton of back pressure, even the so called high flow cats.
ATR makes a system that uses a u bolt. At high rpm and boost it would push the exhaust pipe back and it could be heard leaking. The car we tested weighed 3800 lbs with driver and fuel. With the cat it ran 13.1 at 109. Without it ran 12.5 at 115. You do the math. There are horsepower calculators all over the net you can plug the numbers into.
Here's one if you want to see;
http://www.mtv411.com/auto/Horsepowe...or.htm#HpWtSpd
Since the mini has a smaller engine I'm guessing the gain is less.
I know guys that have gotten similar results. The cats suck power. I'm guessing it would work based on my observations. You could also punch out the screens and get the same result.
Don't just take my word for it, ask around.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,258
Likes: 0
From: Portland OR
180-200 hp with pulley with gages $1000 total
210-230 hp with test pipe $1100 total
210-230 hp with test pipe $1100 total
Uhm, just a reality check here:
(all figures general)
-pulley $150
-headers $1100
-exhaust $700
-intake $230
-chip $700
-clutch and flywheel $1000
-labor for all of above $1000+ EASILY
And then there's the problem of the wheels and tires creating too much unsprung weight, keep those ETs lower...they'll need to be replaced too. Say $2000 for a decent setup. Then the suspension will need to cope. Springs/struts or coilovers, sways, camber plates and control arms. Say, another $1700.
... hows that old saying go? ....
So you want more HP? How much do you want to spend?
R
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
>>>>>>bolt in a straight pipe, aka "test" pipe, "for off road use only". Eliminating the cats will boost you a good 20-30 hp. >>You could just run the test pipe, and probably get close to 190 hp too.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ummm ... what are you basing this on? Any dyno tests?
>>
>>Drag strip. Similar configuration, better trap speed and time with and without. no dyno test. Most cats have screens used to deflect air into a chamber creating a ton of back pressure, even the so called high flow cats.
>>
>>ATR makes a system that uses a u bolt. At high rpm and boost it would push the exhaust pipe back and it could be heard leaking. The car we tested weighed 3800 lbs with driver and fuel. With the cat it ran 13.1 at 109. Without it ran 12.5 at 115. You do the math. There are horsepower calculators all over the net you can plug the numbers into.
>>
>>Here's one if you want to see;
>>http://www.mtv411.com/auto/Horsepowe...or.htm#HpWtSpd
>>
>>Since the mini has a smaller engine I'm guessing the gain is less.
>>
>>I know guys that have gotten similar results. The cats suck power. I'm guessing it would work based on my observations. You could also punch out the screens and get the same result.
>>
>>Don't just take my word for it, ask around.
Well, in my previous vehicle, I replaced my downpipe/cat with a 3" downpipe and 3" high-flow cat. Although I had nice gains from the larger piping, swapping out the cat for a race pipe netted me ZERO improvement in trap speed. I have actually dyno tested various mods on my MINI. I have trouble seeing where you have come up with any of your performance figures.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ummm ... what are you basing this on? Any dyno tests?
>>
>>Drag strip. Similar configuration, better trap speed and time with and without. no dyno test. Most cats have screens used to deflect air into a chamber creating a ton of back pressure, even the so called high flow cats.
>>
>>ATR makes a system that uses a u bolt. At high rpm and boost it would push the exhaust pipe back and it could be heard leaking. The car we tested weighed 3800 lbs with driver and fuel. With the cat it ran 13.1 at 109. Without it ran 12.5 at 115. You do the math. There are horsepower calculators all over the net you can plug the numbers into.
>>
>>Here's one if you want to see;
>>http://www.mtv411.com/auto/Horsepowe...or.htm#HpWtSpd
>>
>>Since the mini has a smaller engine I'm guessing the gain is less.
>>
>>I know guys that have gotten similar results. The cats suck power. I'm guessing it would work based on my observations. You could also punch out the screens and get the same result.
>>
>>Don't just take my word for it, ask around.
Well, in my previous vehicle, I replaced my downpipe/cat with a 3" downpipe and 3" high-flow cat. Although I had nice gains from the larger piping, swapping out the cat for a race pipe netted me ZERO improvement in trap speed. I have actually dyno tested various mods on my MINI. I have trouble seeing where you have come up with any of your performance figures.
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
>>>>>>>>bolt in a straight pipe, aka "test" pipe, "for off road use only". Eliminating the cats will boost you a good 20-30 hp. >>You could just run the test pipe, and probably get close to 190 hp too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ummm ... what are you basing this on? Any dyno tests?
>>>>
>>>>Drag strip. Similar configuration, better trap speed and time with and without. no dyno test. Most cats have screens used to deflect air into a chamber creating a ton of back pressure, even the so called high flow cats.
>>>>
>>>>ATR makes a system that uses a u bolt. At high rpm and boost it would push the exhaust pipe back and it could be heard leaking. The car we tested weighed 3800 lbs with driver and fuel. With the cat it ran 13.1 at 109. Without it ran 12.5 at 115. You do the math. There are horsepower calculators all over the net you can plug the numbers into.
>>>>
>>>>Here's one if you want to see;
>>>>http://www.mtv411.com/auto/Horsepowe...or.htm#HpWtSpd
>>>>
>>>>Since the mini has a smaller engine I'm guessing the gain is less.
>>>>
>>>>I know guys that have gotten similar results. The cats suck power. I'm guessing it would work based on my observations. You could also punch out the screens and get the same result.
>>>>
>>>>Don't just take my word for it, ask around.
>>
>>Well, in my previous vehicle, I replaced my downpipe/cat with a 3" downpipe and 3" high-flow cat. Although I had nice gains from the larger piping, swapping out the cat for a race pipe netted me ZERO improvement in trap speed. I have actually dyno tested various mods on my MINI. I have trouble seeing where you have come up with any of your performance figures.
What was your previous vehicle? You mentioned you got nice gains from your downpipe with the cat. Was it a turbo/supercharged car? Were there screens in your cat? Did you test the same day? Was the air temp the same? We tested same day same air temp, big gains. the car was a VR4tt. We ran TEC 15G's too and a fully modified fuel, intercooler system. Exhaust was our restrictive point. It could be that you no longer had a restriction from your exhaust so the cat didn't matter. I.e. you didn't have enough exhaust to get restricted after you installed your 3 inch pipe.
I'd guess that little cat on the mini is causing some restriction and the top end would be better without it. That's a cheap thing to do and would be easy to benchmark with an accelerometer (Like the optimistic g-tech/tesla units).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ummm ... what are you basing this on? Any dyno tests?
>>>>
>>>>Drag strip. Similar configuration, better trap speed and time with and without. no dyno test. Most cats have screens used to deflect air into a chamber creating a ton of back pressure, even the so called high flow cats.
>>>>
>>>>ATR makes a system that uses a u bolt. At high rpm and boost it would push the exhaust pipe back and it could be heard leaking. The car we tested weighed 3800 lbs with driver and fuel. With the cat it ran 13.1 at 109. Without it ran 12.5 at 115. You do the math. There are horsepower calculators all over the net you can plug the numbers into.
>>>>
>>>>Here's one if you want to see;
>>>>http://www.mtv411.com/auto/Horsepowe...or.htm#HpWtSpd
>>>>
>>>>Since the mini has a smaller engine I'm guessing the gain is less.
>>>>
>>>>I know guys that have gotten similar results. The cats suck power. I'm guessing it would work based on my observations. You could also punch out the screens and get the same result.
>>>>
>>>>Don't just take my word for it, ask around.
>>
>>Well, in my previous vehicle, I replaced my downpipe/cat with a 3" downpipe and 3" high-flow cat. Although I had nice gains from the larger piping, swapping out the cat for a race pipe netted me ZERO improvement in trap speed. I have actually dyno tested various mods on my MINI. I have trouble seeing where you have come up with any of your performance figures.
What was your previous vehicle? You mentioned you got nice gains from your downpipe with the cat. Was it a turbo/supercharged car? Were there screens in your cat? Did you test the same day? Was the air temp the same? We tested same day same air temp, big gains. the car was a VR4tt. We ran TEC 15G's too and a fully modified fuel, intercooler system. Exhaust was our restrictive point. It could be that you no longer had a restriction from your exhaust so the cat didn't matter. I.e. you didn't have enough exhaust to get restricted after you installed your 3 inch pipe.
I'd guess that little cat on the mini is causing some restriction and the top end would be better without it. That's a cheap thing to do and would be easy to benchmark with an accelerometer (Like the optimistic g-tech/tesla units).
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
>>I forgot to mention. Leave the supercharger in place and ADD the Turbocharger. The Supercharger has little lag and the turbo needs to spool up. The car in this configuration would operate like a twin turbo with no lag and a very fat torque curve and a power to weight ratio of 7-9 lbs per bhp. It's a bizarre thought but I heard this had been done with an OEM car in the 30's, a turbocharger feeding a super charger, it's just not very cost effective for an auto manufacturer to make.
>>
>>This configuration would have both blowers feeding the intake manifold - if there was room.
I don't know if there's room for this. The engine bay is already so JAM packed. Certainly & aside from space limitations there's the cooling issues. This engine/bay heats up too much already. The intercooler doesn't see enough cold air. I would think that cooling options (better rad, oil cooler & intercooler) would be priorities before doing a whole lot of additional heat producing mods. Someone posted here that he was seeing a significant dip @ high RPM - the HP just dropped off out of nowhere. If I recall correctly the suggestion was that the ECU was dumping fuel in the cylinder (@ this point) in order to cool things down. I have my own additional suspicion - that connecting rod stretch is increasing compression @ this very same point, and the two combined phenomenon are causing the ECU grief.
As for what could be or might be possible there's lots to examine & think about. The old 1.6 supercharged Toyota MR2's were modified to produce 350+HP with a supercharger/turbo combination. ...And according to a few of the owners the cars are every-day driver reliable. The turbo kit which was made by HKS never caught on - and was quickly deleted. But for those lucky few who got one...
http://www2.msstate.edu/~sgn1/MR2/mkimod.htm
>>
>>This configuration would have both blowers feeding the intake manifold - if there was room.
I don't know if there's room for this. The engine bay is already so JAM packed. Certainly & aside from space limitations there's the cooling issues. This engine/bay heats up too much already. The intercooler doesn't see enough cold air. I would think that cooling options (better rad, oil cooler & intercooler) would be priorities before doing a whole lot of additional heat producing mods. Someone posted here that he was seeing a significant dip @ high RPM - the HP just dropped off out of nowhere. If I recall correctly the suggestion was that the ECU was dumping fuel in the cylinder (@ this point) in order to cool things down. I have my own additional suspicion - that connecting rod stretch is increasing compression @ this very same point, and the two combined phenomenon are causing the ECU grief.
As for what could be or might be possible there's lots to examine & think about. The old 1.6 supercharged Toyota MR2's were modified to produce 350+HP with a supercharger/turbo combination. ...And according to a few of the owners the cars are every-day driver reliable. The turbo kit which was made by HKS never caught on - and was quickly deleted. But for those lucky few who got one...
http://www2.msstate.edu/~sgn1/MR2/mkimod.htm
Temporarily Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,382
Likes: 2
From: Denver
Fred,
Welcome to MCO!
I wish the hp quest were so easy and cheap!
I have more than 200hp and here's what it took:
pulley $200 4-5 hours labor by someone who knows what they are doing
intake $239 20 minutes labor
throttle body $399 20 minutes labor
header $1300 or $750 1 hour labor
Magnaflow $599 1 hour labor
I now have a few more goodies, but that's what it took to get to the magical 200 hp mark.
For the record, we've found that 15% reduction is as high as you want to go for reliability. After speaking with Eaton, BMW, and a few other engineers, that seem to jive with everyone (including JCW).
As far as taking out the cat and seeing a 30 hp gain - nope. I wish it were that easy. The other problem with that is you completely lose your O2 sensors.
BTW, all of the numbers we have seen are dyno'ed, the cars have been track tested, and are street driven.
Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions.
Randy
720-841-1002
Welcome to MCO!
I wish the hp quest were so easy and cheap!
I have more than 200hp and here's what it took:
pulley $200 4-5 hours labor by someone who knows what they are doing
intake $239 20 minutes labor
throttle body $399 20 minutes labor
header $1300 or $750 1 hour labor
Magnaflow $599 1 hour labor
I now have a few more goodies, but that's what it took to get to the magical 200 hp mark.
For the record, we've found that 15% reduction is as high as you want to go for reliability. After speaking with Eaton, BMW, and a few other engineers, that seem to jive with everyone (including JCW).
As far as taking out the cat and seeing a 30 hp gain - nope. I wish it were that easy. The other problem with that is you completely lose your O2 sensors.
BTW, all of the numbers we have seen are dyno'ed, the cars have been track tested, and are street driven.
Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions.
Randy
720-841-1002
3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA
Fred, I'll be less politically correct than others here.
Please don't post information like "you'll gain 20 to 30 HP on a MINI" by removing the cat unless you can show a dyno graph to prove such a claim. I guarantee you that you can't do that because there is no way on God's green Earth that you can gain 20 to 30 HP on a MINI by removing the cats!
Please don't post information like "you'll gain 20 to 30 HP on a MINI" by removing the cat unless you can show a dyno graph to prove such a claim. I guarantee you that you can't do that because there is no way on God's green Earth that you can gain 20 to 30 HP on a MINI by removing the cats!
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
>>Fred, I'll be less politically correct than others here.
>>
>>Please don't post information like "you'll gain 20 to 30 HP on a MINI" by removing the cat unless you can show a dyno graph to prove such a claim. I guarantee you that you can't do that because there is no way on God's green Earth that you can gain 20 to 30 HP on a MINI by removing the cats!
>>
Agreed you must be living in the stone age if you think you are going to get 20-30 hp by removing the cat off of a modern car.
The Pentagon motor only makes 164 at the crank so a 20 hp increase would be an almost 9% increase in hp. No way you are going to get that much.
Straight pipes are a bad idea period end of story and where do you get this 100 dollars for straight pipes from anyway? My friend got a exhaust cut out installed on his camaro, after his cats mind you, for 40 bucks from a muffler shop. A test pipe would be even cheaper then a cut out since there is no Y-pipe, plate, bolts or thumbscrews involved.
>>
>>Please don't post information like "you'll gain 20 to 30 HP on a MINI" by removing the cat unless you can show a dyno graph to prove such a claim. I guarantee you that you can't do that because there is no way on God's green Earth that you can gain 20 to 30 HP on a MINI by removing the cats!
>>
Agreed you must be living in the stone age if you think you are going to get 20-30 hp by removing the cat off of a modern car.
The Pentagon motor only makes 164 at the crank so a 20 hp increase would be an almost 9% increase in hp. No way you are going to get that much.
Straight pipes are a bad idea period end of story and where do you get this 100 dollars for straight pipes from anyway? My friend got a exhaust cut out installed on his camaro, after his cats mind you, for 40 bucks from a muffler shop. A test pipe would be even cheaper then a cut out since there is no Y-pipe, plate, bolts or thumbscrews involved.
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Miami
>>Fred,
>>
>>Welcome to MCO!
>>
>>I wish the hp quest were so easy and cheap!
>>
>>I have more than 200hp and here's what it took:
>>
>>pulley $200 4-5 hours labor by someone who knows what they are doing
>>intake $239 20 minutes labor
>>throttle body $399 20 minutes labor
>>header $1300 or $750 1 hour labor
>>Magnaflow $599 1 hour labor
>>
>>I now have a few more goodies, but that's what it took to get to the magical 200 hp mark.
>>
>>For the record, we've found that 15% reduction is as high as you want to go for reliability. After speaking with Eaton, BMW, and a few other engineers, that seem to jive with everyone (including JCW).
>>
>>As far as taking out the cat and seeing a 30 hp gain - nope. I wish it were that easy. The other problem with that is you completely lose your O2 sensors.
>>
>>BTW, all of the numbers we have seen are dyno'ed, the cars have been track tested, and are street driven.
>>
>>Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions.
>>
>>Randy
>>720-841-1002
Randy;
Is the 200HP at the wheels or does the 11% drivetrain reduction apply?
Thanks
Christian
>>
>>Welcome to MCO!
>>
>>I wish the hp quest were so easy and cheap!
>>
>>I have more than 200hp and here's what it took:
>>
>>pulley $200 4-5 hours labor by someone who knows what they are doing
>>intake $239 20 minutes labor
>>throttle body $399 20 minutes labor
>>header $1300 or $750 1 hour labor
>>Magnaflow $599 1 hour labor
>>
>>I now have a few more goodies, but that's what it took to get to the magical 200 hp mark.
>>
>>For the record, we've found that 15% reduction is as high as you want to go for reliability. After speaking with Eaton, BMW, and a few other engineers, that seem to jive with everyone (including JCW).
>>
>>As far as taking out the cat and seeing a 30 hp gain - nope. I wish it were that easy. The other problem with that is you completely lose your O2 sensors.
>>
>>BTW, all of the numbers we have seen are dyno'ed, the cars have been track tested, and are street driven.
>>
>>Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions.
>>
>>Randy
>>720-841-1002
Randy;
Is the 200HP at the wheels or does the 11% drivetrain reduction apply?
Thanks
Christian
Temporarily Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,382
Likes: 2
From: Denver
Here are the numbers I had at the wheels for that set up:
179.6 hp
157.0 ft/lb
Compared to the stock numbers:
147.9 hp
132.2 ft/lb
I have around 186 at the wheels now, but the torque didn't change that much - I think it's still hovering around 158 or so.
Those are all wheel numbers at operating temp.
Let me know if you have any othr questions.
Randy
179.6 hp
157.0 ft/lb
Compared to the stock numbers:
147.9 hp
132.2 ft/lb
I have around 186 at the wheels now, but the torque didn't change that much - I think it's still hovering around 158 or so.
Those are all wheel numbers at operating temp.
Let me know if you have any othr questions.
Randy
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: Montreal
Nice job Randy,
In resume, parts, installation, S&H +tax and misc = 4000$. Then brakes, sway bar, tires wheels, susp and ??? = 8000$, Oh I forgot the LSD, oups I guess everything works fine for a long time, warranty voided...
I'm sure that with all that work involved, I might be able to get a car which drives much better and is fun to drive.
I see that torque is increased by 19%, If I can get a 15% increase at low RPM with reliability for around 1500 to 2000$, I will go for it and it will be because of guys like you, dedicated to their passions and the excellent work done.
Thank you very much.
Guy
In resume, parts, installation, S&H +tax and misc = 4000$. Then brakes, sway bar, tires wheels, susp and ??? = 8000$, Oh I forgot the LSD, oups I guess everything works fine for a long time, warranty voided...
I'm sure that with all that work involved, I might be able to get a car which drives much better and is fun to drive.
I see that torque is increased by 19%, If I can get a 15% increase at low RPM with reliability for around 1500 to 2000$, I will go for it and it will be because of guys like you, dedicated to their passions and the excellent work done.
Thank you very much.
Guy
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