I know this topic might have been covered before, i know for a fact we have covered a ported/polished SC and it's benefits but today while talking to some tuner buddies i had an idea.

I know the Eaton roots sc has it's benefits, but it also has alot of drawbacks. Alot of the people i know that have sc-ed cars have vortecs. IE my uncles lightning, 5.0, friends 5.0, friends eclipse, friends saleen, friends modded Cobra stang, friends modded AC Cobra, etc. They seem to create ALOT of horsepower. Is it possible or has anyone else ever explored the possibility of putting a different supercharger on their S or am I just a lunatic?

Just wondering if it would be possible.

Mikey

 

Well its been explored, all the other cars you mention are also all V8s (except the eclipse) not I-4, which has a lot to do with output, JCW and M7 both replace the SC and the EAton is almost indestructable (as far as I know only Randy Webbs "mule" has been able to break one. The JCW and M7 SCs are much like the stockone only leass restrictive, someonlder threads have some real good compariosn photos. I think it all boils down to it is usually cheaper per HP to explore other routes.

 

The other route available is the Twin Screw, or Whipple supercharger.

http://www.coloradocobras.com/whippl...win-screw.html

There have been several discussions about this, Webb Motorsports was going to work on this and/or import the kits from RMS.

http://www.rms-tuning.com/mini_tuning_s.htm

I really, really, really want that. I mean REALLY. I'd love to have the twinscrew, mainly because of more HP compared to the roots charger.

There haven't been any news from M7 or WMS.... any news about it coming around would be great. I think I remember hearing something about the currency exchange was the main reason for no importation.

 

Vortec's tend to make higher HP figures because they, like turbo's, make more boost as RPM's rise. Eaton and roots make more and constant boost down at low rpm's. So, there's a tradeoff of more peak vs. more low-end.

 

so are vortecs twinscrews or no? I would love to keep low end torque, but i don't know, it just seems like more has gone into making the stock crappy unit okay instead of finding a already awesome piece and making that even better.

Mikey

 

According to the sites posted by SteyrTMP the twin screw seems to be the best option. Better lower end, and high end. Yes and I'm lucky I know German or I'd be confused as heck with the RMS website. The only thing I don't know about is the quiet operation, I kinda like the whine.

Mikey

 

...and then theres the problem your facing with the water pump. As the charger spins the water pump, replacing the charger with another style would mean fitting an electrical pump or whatever.

Ive seen some MINIs now with different chargers and ways round the water pump, but im sure there are better ways to spend your hard earned cash.

 

I would not consider any option that reduces the whine. That's the real signature of the Crap. I'm surprised that JCW hasn't trademarked the sound like Harley attempted to do with their "exhaust note".

 

ChilicooperS, the Vortec is a centrifugal supercharger. Although I have no personal experience, this would be my last resort--it has all the problems of both worlds. It not only has the "turbo lag" with no boost at all in the starting rpms, but it is also parasitic, as it's running off the crank rather than the exhaust. Yeah, the turbo has some parasitic tendancies, but not enough to really count. One thing I've seen in discussions about super/turbocharging Honda Civics and the like, is that the Vortec tends to be avoided, as the max boost is often gained only PAST the redline on some cars. Another page from that one site:

http://www.coloradocobras.com/whippl...rchargers.html

About the RMS Whipple/Autorotor supercharger: Here's a movie clip. I really can't hear anything other than the exhaust, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is no whine... besides, I'd rather LOOK like that than sound like the current roots charger.

http://www.rms-tuning.com/foto/mini.avi

 

Again, from the same site... I like their approach--no bashing of any type, but basic facts.

http://www.coloradocobras.com/whippl...son-chart.html

That gives a pretty good description and comparison.

 

The peak boost can be delivered at different rpms with the centrifugal SC, as desired- you just need to adjust the pulley size so that it's spinning at max boost at redline. If you're at high rpms often, that is an ideal setup, compared to the roots, which becomes markedly less efficient at higher blower rpm levels.

here's a wikipedia on the Centrifugal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrif...e_supercharger

and on the Roots:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roots_type_supercharger

But, as has been suggested, any new SC solution will need to figure out how to power the water pump. It could be done- it just requires custom pieces! Hope this helps some.

 

ergh, who would wanna patent the sound of the harley, sound awful....our whine is in a different league

 

The "45" model SC on the "S" is really pushing its capabilities at 200 hp..... I know of some development work done to a "62" which can give us (estimated) in the 300hp performance.... what to do with the water pump and keeping it reliable is the issue..... I have voluntered the "SpiderX" to be the mule.

However, the more I think about "twincharge" the more I like it.... looking forward to a ride in one at the Dragon

 

but surely the JCW isn't pushing the capabilities of the stock charger with +/-14 psi and 210 bhp? a 15% doesn't even push the charger that hard....

 

according to the engineer who is working on the project the M45 is pretty much maxed out...... read other threads about cavitation, heat etc..... there is no magic about the JCW it is the same with a pulley..... the M7 sc is said to be iffy as to its effectiveness with highly modded engines.....it is better with slightly modded engines..... (long story) I am tired of expensive mods for little (< 5 hp gains)

 

The Jackson Racing Twinscrew setup on my friends Predlue w/ 2.2L engine was over 300BHP at 6-8psi. It blows me away the stock MCS supercharger can go to 15psi still make (relatively) low power.

 

Vortecs are inherently different, I'm sure some of the links above explain it better. For all the negatives of Vortecs, they're more popular than ever. One advantage of a Vortec over roots is that it doesn't sit on top of the intake manifold.

Almost 100% of S2000's and 350Z/G35 superchargers are vortec, it seems to fit better on RWD cars w/ longitudinally mounted engines. On the G35 using a roots supercharger requires a different hood that bulges in the middle to accomodate the s/c mounted on top of the engine.

vortecs can also make massive horsepower because an intercooler can be used, where as twinscrew require an aftercooler, which is harder to implement (and requires more space). The vortec can also be placed in better locations to have a belt run to the crank. So while its mechanically inferior to a twinscrew in most everyway, there are reasons why they are very popular

 

JCW: Same housing, smaller pulley, different vanes (not just coated as many believe).

 

No one at Mini will confirm this....where did you get the info and what are the performance parameters..... higher redline, lower heat, what are the advantages from stock?

 

Spider, can you give us more info on the work on the "62"? I think that path might be the best to pursue, other than twin charging. Would the engineer be able to share any info with us?

 

Saw one of each pulled apart. Housing is the same. The pulley is obvious and the vane design is different. No clue regarding the parameters, but clearly changed by the vanes.

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk here but I can't..... the project is just something being looked at among a long list of other Mini and non Mini projects..... due to complexity and cost all/other options are being considered as well. I personally would like to see this happen if it could come in under the twin charge cost.....

 

The actual design is different....not just a coating...wow ....now I wish I knew more..... I wonder how we could find out

 

i've heard that the 02-04 SC is different to the 05-06 SC, is the JCW any different to the 05 or 06?

 

anyone know?