Andy gave me some good info, and with the stock scoop in place (not trimmed or opened up like it will be) it performed (effeciency wise) the same as stock. Andy said he will be testing with the scoope removed next! So far so good! That is all for now. More data to follow later this week. Thanks Andy for the quick data!

 

Update very much appreciated.

 

of how well a stocker would do with a better scoop.

Matt

 

Good point but the stock scoop/diverter/hood shroud is designed for the stock IC. This one isn't. So with that small opening and probably not completely sealed off scoop area, the new IC seems to be working pretty well.

 

Who thinks, we should cut up Andy's Hood? All in favor say .

Come on Andy, take one for the team.

 

Ive got a sawzall!

Matt

But really, all this work is to make up for the fact that air entry and exit from the stock IC isn't that good. I really think that if one were to put this effort into getting more air into a more conventional IC, one would get better bang for the buck. So with stock scoop, and non-optimized diverter, it does what a stock peice does, plus or minus a bit. And if it's the same price as the current IC, that's $700 or so for what?

Here's a novel idea, larger scoop, good, tight fitting diverter, larger BUT NOT THICKER IC, and driving fast. You'd get the benefit of less pressure drop, wouldn't stall the air by putting the IC too close to the top of the intake, and get more air flowing through the IC via optimized diverter and scoop. Call it the "pancake". If someone likes the idea, feel free to make one, and let me have one for free or a discount. I could see that doing much better..... But more data will tell.....


Matt

 

Quite well...
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...13&postcount=1

 

ALL HAIL PROJECT RAM INTAKE!

 

Matt,
You are right, bigger IC not thicker diverter all that stuff is what our larger IC already is. This is a proven item, it works, gains HP...... We don't make a scoop for the car yet but it surely helps with getting more air into the IC area. But again the side drafts thicker core will have less of a pressure drop gaining more HP right there. And if Andy is saying the air temps are the same as stock then for sure the IC will make power. How much and how much better will the temp drop be with the larger scoop is the question.

MSFITOY,
Looks very nice, and not out of place. Is that an add on? Maybe Andy could try to get one of these?

 

It sounds like a bigger scoop might be the ticket to making this perform better than a stock IC. Aren't there already some other scoops available to try?

John

 

A bigger scoop [M7 scoop] already performs better than stock with a STOCK IC. Better than stock ain't the ticket...

 

Wouldn't a bigger scoop make the stock intercooler perform better too?

 

If that scoop is available would it not make fora good experiment ? From what i can see the switching of the scoop is a rather quick thing. This would keep us from guessing if a bigger scoop would help or not. Lets see those deltas

John

 

TonyB has already done quite a lot of work....look here:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=49441

 

At the end of the day installing a larger IC helps but the key to success is bringing together the IC, diverter, scoop and air exit so keep tweaking away Alta.

And thanks for sharing this work in progress.

 

I read Tony's thread and it concurs with my "butt dyno." When I installed the Alta IC I got a bump but when I added the scoop it really made a nice improvement......more or less what I was hoping from the IC alone...... from my experience, if you have an aftermarket IC.....adding the scoop is a real plus

 

There is one more point. You may have to tweak the diverter to prevent leaks. I think all the aftermarket diverters can use a bit of help. Tony did it for his GRS, but the improved diverter wasn't part of the "data logging fun" thread. I have a gen one alta, and I see places where the diverter leaks as well.

Matt

 

No doubt all diverters need tweaked to the hood. I recently upgraded my IC and while it had a diverter there were gaps be it small. I re-used the original foam strip, lining it up with the diveter pieces. Its really soft and compreses to almost zero.

I could actually use more but have no idea where to find more? anyone know?

 

You might check out your local hardware store and look for foam insulation that is placed around window air conditioners. If you need to glue it to your original foam gasket on the diverter you might try rubber cement. Just a thought.
JS

 

Andy, thanks for the extra work and testing our IC so quick! The BimCOM software really shows some great data!

So there is good and there is not so good.
Bad things first:
SCOOP
Andy tested it with the stock scoop and with out the stock scoop. With the scoop removed, the results were not so good. The removal of the scoop was to mimic a possible larger scoop. The removal of the scoop showed how much the scoop really helps capture the air going into the hood. Andy will recieve a new scoop next week that will be a modified stock scoop with the lower portion removed. I think this will help greatly with getting more air into the IC area. This was shown with a photoshopped picture previously.

AIR TEMPS
This is the one area we were worried about things not performing up to snuff. Well they were ok, but not super good. As Andy has said many times before, the stock IC is pretty good at cooling. With the stock IC the peak temps after the IC were in the 4C lower than with our IC. So that is so bad.
Peak temps for ALTA new IC 36-48C Average 44C
Peak temp for the stocker 38-42C Average 40C These are the lowest and highest for each.

efficiency new ALTA 69%-66%
efficiency of stocker 69%68%

So a little worse, but not enough to be worried about with the stock sized small scoop. A bigger one will surely show something better!

That is it for the bad, everything else is pretty good! In fact enough to almost prove this IC make more HP than the stocker.

The Good:
MAF
With the BimCOM software it can calculate mass air flow. The mass air flow with our IC is higher than the stocker. This shows more air flow, duh, which also means more HP. Across the board it is about 20 higher.
I belive this is in Kg/h.
New ALTA IC 691 Peak @6000RPM 673
Stocker 667 Peak @6000RPM 651

MAP
The boost pressure was higher with ours which shows exactly what we thought. Less of a pressure drop do to the larger charge air passages. Our other IC does have some pressure drop to it above the stock part. So one could say our old IC cools better but with more pressure drop. Since we only have WHP numbers on the old IC, Andy is going to do similar tests with our current design.
New ALTA IC 2060mbars
Stocker 1978mbars These are peaks at redline 6000RPM ALTA is about 88mbars higher everywhere

ACCELERATION
The BimCOM software can also report acceleration in G's. During the runs the accel G's were higher all around.
@4500 RPM our IC showed the largest gain above the stock one, as it did at redline. Redline is where i would expect the gain to be really felt as the stock one might be starting to choke, were ours wants to keep going.

KNOCK/TIMING
This is a good one. The knock levels were lower with our IC. The timing was also lower by a couple of degrees. One of the functions of the ECU is changing fuel and timing with air temp changes. So the ECU was pulling some timing because of the higher intake temps, but not pulling timing due to engine noise (knock) If we had a way to add this timing back in (staying with-in the limits of the stock IC engine noise) we would gain even more HP. That could also be said true for the Fuel. There were no AFR readings (other than the narrow band) to show that it was running much richer. The Readings were .91 vs .92(our new IC) so somewhat richer, but not good enough data to know for sure. So even though the car accelerated quicker it was running less timing and some amount richer...... More power is on tap!

You'll notice that 6000 is used for redline. So some of the flow and pressure numbers would be higher if they continued to 6800. But the deltas between stock IC and ours is going to be the same.

To RECAP........
-Stock scoop works ok, larger scoop should prove to be better.
-Air temps a little worse but not much
-Higher boost is had
-Higher acceleration was had
-Knock level shows some fuel can be removed and or timing can be added.
-Higher air flow shows it has more HP, but how much........

The data so far is not enough for us to give up. Expect to see some more data with a larger scoop, and data on the currect design!

 

Where are they?

 

Keep going and thanks for the update .

 

Jeff (Alta2), would you have any data on your current production TMIC?

 

Current design Data from Andy will be done shortly. As soon as Andy has time he will provide us with the same type of info.

 

But there's an interesting point here. If the timing is set via air temps, and not pressures (or a combo), no only is the ECU programming "non-optimal" but that means that you want an IC that lowers temps more than improved boost. Learn something new every day!

Also, this is what TonyB and I saw with the GRS in our testing. Slightly higher temps, and increased mass flow. So far, it's looking about the same (within pissing distance) of other IC designs out there.

We'll see what further optimization will yield, but so far, it looks pretty much like the benefits that others give.

Matt