With the announcement of a couple of new Top Mount Intercoolers coming out i figured it is about time to let ONE of our cats out of the bag.

I thought about saying we just went in the back and cooked this up, check it out! Or maybe, just showing some secret spy shots. Or telling everyone we have a new part that will make 50WHP on your mini.

But truthfully we have been working on this for quite some time. It has been under wraps for a while because of it not being tested, and we didn't want to bring this part out to the market with out some data. We all know how that goes

We planned on releasing it at SEMA, but things just got to crazy with the Twincharged kit (Twurbo) and the other new MINI parts. So it just didn't get done.

Well it is done, at least a final prototype using our final core. The IC you see doesn't have cast endtanks (do to being a prototype), but the size and everything else is all there.

Why did we build this?
Well, duh more power! We are always on a quest to build that TMIC that works like a front mount intercooler. This was our idea. Even our larger IC could cool air better and more more power if it had 2 things. One, a larger core, and two, better ambient air flow.

The larger core provides 2 things. Better cooling, and less of a restriction for the charge air (less pressure drop). Using the stock Mini IC design and making it bigger is what we and everyone else has done. This is the simplest way to improve this part, and it worked, but we feel there is still some ways to improve this design.

Using this large core, air to air of course, about 50% more than our current design, we get the larger cross section for better charge air flow which we know will flow more air (= HP) than our current design (less pressure drop). The other side of the larger core is cooling. This is where we get into the untested waters.

Since this core is very thick compared to any other core out there, yes ANY core out there, it may not work as well. This is why we are building one to test. We know of 6" thick cores working on Supra drag cars, but 8"plus is pretty thick!

Now if this core had no air flow behind it, like the stock IC, i would be worried about the performance. But this is where our Innovative design comes into play. With this core, the ambient air has plenty of room to escape the core. Right out the back!

Why is this so important?? Well the air now just goes straight into the scoop and straight through the IC out the back. The air on the stock IC goes straight into the scoop does a 90 degree turn and tries to flow equally through the core. But we all know that the air doesn't really go through the front half as much as the back. The IC efficenty goes down because of this and in turn warmer charge air, and less HP.

So why do you want this?
Well, more power, less pressure drop, and cooler air.

Yes the cooler air is a theory, but that is why we are testing it!

This was going to be one of those parts that we release them, with dyno numbers, temp numbers, price, and actually instock. But since there has been mention of some others coming out that are supposed to be revolutionary, we had to tell the mini world about our revolutionary design.

We will being keeping the NAM community up to date periodically with where we are in the design, and how it performs!

Feel free to call with questions, or comments.

Also feel free to post suggestions also! Its early enough in development that we could incorporate some NAM feed back into the part.

And of course there will be a IC shroud, and squirter included as long as this performs like it should!

 

Oops!! Pics help!
We will take some pics of it on the car on Monday, i guess this is kind of a weekend teaser.

 

interestin'
yea, more pix pls.

 

is there a different angle in ur new design?
it seems to angle back, im assumin' im l00kin' at the front here!
plus u would want the bigger openin' in front right!?!?

 

Why do I get the feeling Sid knew about this? Must have gotten some info when he was looking for a manufacturer for his frt.scoop. Looks like a good idea. Show me the numbers. OOPs. That belong's to someone.

 

Me want..!!!

 

hm.... seems reasonable enough for me...... i wonder how the data comes out though.... after the whole fiasco with 'cough cough'.... i can tell mini tuners are being careful what they say

 

it's good to see people try new things, but i have my doubts about this: there's a reason most a-a i.cs are thinner in the direction of the air flow through the i.c. by forcing the air through a smaller, but deeper, i.c., the heat picked up by fins at the air "entrance" reduces the ability of the air to cool as it passes through the thickness. this may more than offset your improved flow path.

i suspect that air in the the stock style scoop is pretty much brought to a stop before going down through the i.c. this stopping is bad if you are trying to extract as much energy from the air as you can, say as in a jet engine or in a ram air intake (which for us is miniscule anyway), but for cooling that stopping has little effect.

i suspect that improving, if possible, the design of the diverter to more evenly distribute the air flow through the i.c. would yield better gains than the lay down design you have.

hey, but since it's already made, you may as well try it!

 

I'm also curious about how well an IC in this orientation will cool in still air. Lots of folks have to deal with traffic on a daily basis and a lot of that time is spent with little or no air motion over the IC radiator. Intuititively it would seem that the other orientation of the IC fins-n-passages would be better able to bleed off heat into still air than this orientation, but there's alot of flow dynamics that aren't intuitive.

Please keep us abreast of your test findings. Anything that's tried and measured benefits us all, whether it meets expectations or not.

 

Any thought every given to adding a couple of fans to such a design? Dunno if theres room, but one might imagine, probably incorrectly if I can think of it, that you could help mechanically draw the air through such a design to feed cool air more uniformly thoughout.

 

I was thinking about this comment and got to thinking. There might actually be an advantage to having a smaller opening in the front so that there is less pressure build-up in front and inside the IC for the cooling air. By increasing the size of the passages as it gets towards the back/exit it could accomplish that. Allowing a less restrictive path thru the internal cooling passages.

It might also help to reduce the natural tendency for the air to slow down prior to entering the IC because of all the friction caused by trying to get thru the passages. By having a larger opening in front and then trying to force all the air thru all of the ever smaller passages would create more friction and slow down the air trying to enter the front of the IC. The same way that a row of trees will effect the wind long before it ever actually contacts the leaves of the tree. This is a well docummented effect. Also known to sailors and flyers.

Yes, the air once inside the IC will have to accelerate, following Bernoulli's Law. As the volumn of space reduces the air must travel faster. As it travels faster it will have less time to adsorb heat from the IC.

I think a smaller openng in front and larger exit might have more potential.

JOHO

 

The efficiency of the heat transfer will decrease as the air passes through the core, due to the ambient air increasing in temp. This is why most air to air intercoolers tend to be thinner as most of the heat transfer occurs in the first 3 to 4 rows of the cooler. For this design to work, the air flow will have to be much greater than current designs.

The question is, will the ram air from the air inlet scoop be enough to make the difference. Also, the longer air path through the core will have greater resistance than a thinner core.

That said, I look forward to the test results. Maybe a fan at the outlet to help draw the air through the core? This should be interesting.

 

Agreed. I hope this product exceeds their expectations. This will bring intercooler design for the MCS to a whole new level...pushing other designers to the limit. :-)

 

the fan idea was tried a year ago i believe... ihave to dig up the thread but it is here somewhere...

i wonder... if this design has been used elsewhere with any sucess... such as the STI or the EVO crowd (or better yet, the SRT4)... with that many tuners on those cars you'd think someone over there might've tried something like this with results.. of course, it is comparing apples with orange... but the net effect could be sparsely applied to the mini's case... the efficiency of the same design over a different engine...

 

The answer is: probably not, not with THIS intercooler. But, read the first post carefully....Alta threw this together quickly, without designing a diverter, to try to beat a competitor to the announcement of a [finished] product . The question is whether THAT one will get enough air. The answer, then, is: I think I'll bet yes .

 

I think that this concept will bring MINI IC design to a new level, but I don't think it will be Alta making that splash...heh..

 

Why dont you get some manners? If you want to start a thread about whatever inside information you have, go for it. There is no reason to post your propoganda in another vendor's thread.

 

Considering this thread started out as propoganda, I'm not sure you can really say anything about ingsoc's statements...

 

The propaganda is silenced. No, wait, the propaganda rings through. No, wait, gaaaaah!!! . ::gets up and runs into wall::. ::sits back down::.

Sorry to those who see this or that as propaganda. I kinda just accept that people have sides and assume that everyone will read what is written with a grain of fine Caribbean sand [the salt may just be too small to suffice...heh]. So, yeah, ignore _my_ propaganda or consider it- everyone has a choice . WHEN the various new products arrive on the shelves, we'll all have our own opinions, now won't we?

 

I have always thought that the stock design was a little "off" since the air had no easy place to escape....I felt if the flow was more lateral vs making the curve and hitting the top of the SC it would work better... but I am by no stretch of the imagination an engineer... but I figured some day we would see one.... what sparked my thoughts on this... i say an old VW van like I had in HS that had an external oil cooler set up very much like the intercooler under development by Alta...

Just two requests:
1. Since it will probably be very visible thru the scoop, make it look aesthetically pleasing- not like some add on i.e. the VW
2. Since it will be right up against the scoop (I assume) make is easy to get the bugs out

 

That is quite possibly the most sensible thing I have seen today ! Ditto.

 

Interesting concept. I can't wait to see more info and pics.

 

What you absolutely don't want is for rocks or bugs to bend the fins so air can't flow past. There needs to be a screen of some type for small rocks, but not restrictive enough to hamper cooling. Most aftermarket ICs for supercharged BMWs mount the IC at the lower front intake. Depending on where you live, it would be constantly battered with whatever normally collects on your front end. Bugs (in great volume) are a real problem here in Germany during the summer months, and they can bend radiator fins.

For the stock IC, I'm surprised there's not some type of exhaust shroud with an impeller to suck air through the IC across the entire surface?

Regardless, I'm interested in the larger IC as an alternative to other forms of power boost. I consider it 1 of 2 main performance items for the engine bay, along with CAIs....each of which shouldn't produce an adverse affect on engine life. The combination of the two should create a noticable increase in power delivery across the full rpm range. I'm not a fan of the smaller pulley for multiple reasons, including probable reduced engine/IC service life, and moderate degree of difficulty to install/replace.

 

First off have you considered removing all the trim associated with the bonnet scoop. Then developing a trim that would optimize air entry into the IC.
Then;
How about a duct that connects to the IC backside then exits to the left, down the passenger side of the engine compartment where the oil canister is located. This duct could be a Y configuration with one exhaust branch equipped with an inline temp. controlled fan. The other branch being larger and flush with the sub frame to take advantage of air flow under the car to act as an eductor to pull air through the IC at speed.

 

have u seen this on the sti cars?
i saw sumthin' like this on a SPG SAAB car a while back....looked at it but paid it no mind, till now
**
ingsoc, it really is hard to not let the cat out the bag but s00n enough
(pH2)cant wait to see it meself homie ..oh oh lets keep the propaganda out of it..........................