I'd definitly like to see the twincharged cars in this.. the top cosworth kit is near the price of a turbokompressor kit.. so why not compare the two and see which has better value in terms of power and drivability..

 

You are correct sir!

 

This shootout is an excellent idea.

In fact, we should try and do this at AMVIV.

There needs to be a few rules, so that there is nothing over the top.

A few tuners I would love to see shoot it out Road and Track style AND also a Race on the track (say 15 laps):

Webb Motorsports
M7
Helix
Mini-Madness
Fireball Tim Racing (Hubie and Company)
Minimania

+ A few street challengers.

Twincharge welcome!

Did I miss anyone?

 

Turner? Dinan?

From an economics POV, it would seem the "losers" here have MUCH to lose while the "winner" has MUCH to gain. I hope that makes sense to the Vendors who are, literally, going to be putting their reps on the line. Surely the "winner" will get a flock of new business?

 

But just how do you determine the winner?

Fastest all around?

The one the meets or exceedes their claims?

The one that meets or exceedes their claims at the best price?

If you're a vendor and the car you present meets every one of your claims but it isn't the fastest in the shootout did your car really loose?

Better yet, how about the vendors who will be fielding cars come up with the ground rules... Let them determine amoung themselves just what they want to put out there...

I'll freely admit that I'm not a motorhead in the slightest sense of the word, but an apples to apples comparison like what is being proposed here sounds like a great idea...

 

Someone should also contact GoMINI magazine and see if they would be interested in helping get this thing off the ground. GoMINI's involvement would provide cache to the tuners and show them this is a serious gig. You would also think they would present their best effort.

 

In reverse order ... I agree, its the vendors who have the most to lose monetarily and therefore it should be THEIR agreed upon rules while the consumers sit by and watch.

Usually, in life, most everything fits some kind of "normal" curve and its pretty easy to see who is "fast" and who is blowing smoke (at the extremes). The ones in the middle of the curve (average) will be pretty obvious as well.

As to deciding upon the winner ... Its pretty obvious this is an enthusiasts board. Not to stereotype people because everyone is different, It appears to have people interested in the "best bang for the buck" and others looking for "the fastest" regardless of costs.

Therefore, the vendor providing the "best bang for the buck" will be in "winner" and the overall "fastest" will be a winner (simply because there are always some people who "have" to be the best/fastest/whatever). Those on the bottom of the curve will not get so much business anymore and those in the middle of the curve will most likely lose some business.

That is why I would consider this to be a VERY serious thing for the vendors to consider since they have much to lose AND much to win.

just my opinion only (and I've known to been wrong!)

Bottom line ... if I were a tuner (and I can't even spell "sparkpug" ), I would be either very sure I had the best, or be concerned about the future of my sales.

Just a thought.

BTW, I dont think "meeting your claims" means much. If you dont "meet your claims" I'm sure that the community is so large that it would be well known within the community. You better meet your claims or sales would likely plummet. After all, this is business.

 

You determine the winner by the actual race.

 

Sounds like a good idea, but too many limits is going to ruin the whols thing.


Here is what I think..

The only limitation is that ALL parts on the car entered in th eevent be AVAILABLE FOR THE PUBLIC to buy, no experimental or "in the works" parts.

there should be a team of 3 neutral drivers that will each take all vehicles through the course of whatever events are drtermined to be the best test criteria. ( slalom, 1/4 mile etc..or whatever ) At the end all times are posted for you to decide or they can be averaged between the 3 drivers/runs.

That will eliminate diver ability from the picture.

The reason I say no limits except that the parts be available is that there is a huge wide variey of what people want, I am sure there are a bunck of people in th enam comunity with $10K ready to go if they see what they like, why limit it to the average mods? You will never know what is possible unless you see all the options.

 

Let's get Car & Driver involved. They've done this before and we'll have it in print. This time, it's Mini's only (including classics). Hell, why just limit it to vendors...got a Shawingn Mini to smack down the vendor's challenge, bring it on Where's my popcorn:smile:

 

Car and Driver just did a 4 Cylinder Challenge, we were the only MINI there. Watch SPEED on the Oct. 8th at 12:30 for the episode... and watch for the magazine around the same time.


[/QUOTE]

 

FWIW, here's my take on it - as a plain-old consumer...

I would love to see the dyno and sheet results of the mods... we're looking at vendor flagship builds here.

I want to see a wheel-to-wheel (or time trial to keep it safe and sound) series on a circuit track. There's a reason that lap speed at Nurnburgring = bragging rights among auto manufacturers.

IMHO, if we need classes, that's fine - I would like to see as many vendors as possible.

4x4 community has the "top truck challenge" that separates the men and boys - no vendors or sponsored trucks ever make it into the competition though... all homegrown rigs. This is just the opposite... and without the mud... and second differential... and bigger tires... OK it's not really the same, but it could be - somehow.

 

My question about how you determine the winner was really directed at chows4us, and btw was in no way intended to be a shot a chows...

My reason for the question was mentioned by somebody else, what I would want to get from this might be different from what somebody else wants...

For example, I might want to see what truely does provide me with the best all around performance for the money I have.

But Bill might be looking for the flat out fastest street legal MINI money can buy.

Fred could be looking for the best 0-60 times he can get

And so on...

In such a case, there's no real clear cut overall winner. Just the company that puts forth the pieces that meets the requirements of those who are watching. The overall winner of the event, might not be the right fit for me. If they spent $10k to win, yet company B spent $5k didn't win, but still performed well, still performed as they claimed it would, company B's line might be what would work for me...

This is just me speaking, but I see something like this as better than all the spec sheets in the world. A shoot out like this is the mods on the cars in full view doing (or trying to do) what the vendor claims its going to do...

 

Good point - perhaps an entry car can win in different categories - some may not care as much about others (i.e. not drag or 0-60-0, but only BHP and top speed or something).

Of course if a vendor wins multiple categories it's their benefit... I do think that vendors should only be allowed 1 car each though.

It's all going to be up to the vendors themselves - it's their dime, after all.

I would personally pay $20 for the DVD of the action though!

 

I know. No problem

And I think I agreed with you. Basically, you got the people looking for the best bang for the buck and those who want the fastest ... period. Sure, they will be others with different needs but I'd bet the majority fall in those two categories.

I will still say, however, that the vendors are at risk doing this in that some will gain customers and some will lose customers so THEY are taking the gamble (not us consumers) and THEY will take the economic consequences. Therefore the VENDORS, and only the VENDORS, should decide among themselves about the rules as its their pocketbooks at risk (good or bad).

I think we might be actually agreeing ... just said a different way and my presumption about the two different types of consumers could be way off

just a thought ... in any case, I'd love to see the results

 

Oh yeah, an itemized list of the parts as well as a total "what it would cost YOU to build one" should be considerations.

If a car can be built for $3,000 and perform very, very well vs. one that had $20,000 in it there may be something significant in the synergy of the $3K project's design!

 

Absolutely ... Best bang for the buck!

 

$3000? Maybe for a Honda shoot out. With all due respect but have you looked at the price list for Mini parts lately? 3k might get you a set of wheels/tire, CAI, exhaust, pully, chip, maybe a arm rest and a set of 500hp racing stripes

 

Just an example... many vendors offer complete stage I kits in this range.

I agree that MINI parts can be a little pricey for some items, but they could be worse - they're actually pretty reasonable for a German car.

 

Hey guys, Randy pointed me towards this thread earlier today. I have just read the thread, and I have come up with a simple solution to "the Rules". Only in house products in development for the public, announced before this thread was started, can be used. That eliminates the "O yea, we where developing this all carbon fiber body and twin turbo viper engine swap" that may occur if there where no rules. I think this would be the best way to show what each company has to offer. If we do limit the mods to just the basics, it will be an alta vs. M7 battle. No fun in that, is there! Anyways, I hope this will fly with most of ya.

-Brian

 

Wouldn't the single driver be fatigued and not offer his best performance to each car?


Clover

 

Damn that's quick. I pull 1:21 in my A4 but it has over 100hp on my Mini.

What kind of whp are we talking about on the "mule"?

Thanks!

 

Im not knockin these companies on here but now your asking for two multi-million dollar companies ( not that the money means anything ) to enter this when there not the ones in question on the board.....I can easly find out if Dinan Engineering or Turner Motorsports are up for this but i highly doubt it. Down fall to both of them is they just recently discovered the Mini and havent been out there like the others being there both mainly BMW tuners and just got into the Mini in the past 1-2yrs. So maybe the money thing isnt an advantage after all being experience always over power strength. Id def wanna see this at The Glen.


I will be talking to Tony tomorrow anyway ( had to order him some parts ) so ill see what he thinks about this and maybe bring our cars up there. A new one is being built right now.... Good stuff.

Would Tony be considered a ringer being he works for/with us???

 

You mean like, "O yea, we were developing this new exhaust system..."


Why? As mbabischkin stated, there are many different goals out there - since very few can afford 'the best money can buy' it would make sense to see varying 'stage level' entries. If this is for the customers, and not solely bragging rights.

 

like i see. there are a lot of people want this shootout.i think the point of make rules is neccesary.i think can be in two ways 1. by category 2. by money.example a) category all mods until $5000. b)all mods no limits $. for those who want to go fast no mattle the risk.but the fist think is ask the vendors or tuners if they want to do this and if they want they are the ones that make the rules.but fist we need to find coverage from magazine like road and track ,eurotuner, and tv (speed channel).I think the vendors have more pros than cons.everybody think different like you see in this tread someone no have to much money to buy a super car but sufficient to buy some stuffs.

It will be very interesting to see in the same track all the tuner with there car no mattle who wins.all ways you have something to win and something to loose but if you not tried you never know.It like when you make a new part you going to be the best until came one copy the part make some modification and then he has the best part.that's life.i think all the tuner have something to win.

LEST TRIED TO MAKE THIS REAL. NOT ONLY A TRAED.

" if the vendor or tuner need cash for rent the track,dyno etc count with me.and if you make a video i buy the fisrt copy."