Pickle, that is WAY OFF TOPIC. End now. If you have anything intelligent to say about this topic, we're all here waiting!

 

Son, strange you would even post here after being throughly embarrased on numerous threads. Not even knowing where the fuel injectors or where the cylinder head lies on the car is proof enough you should stick to going to college. I have been reading these boards for months now and it seems you and Rally run to Peter's side every time he digs a hole for himself. Peter is adept at digging his own holes, he doesn't need your help.

I am looking to upgrade my system but I want to see what there is out there to make my decision and I want a no-holds barred approach.

 

*****-le. You're not very good at staying on topic, huh? Guess you couldn't make it through college if you wanted. BTW master researcher, I'm in MED School. Already did my BA at the University of Pennsylvania. That's right, IVY LEAGUE. If you wanna post about me, make another thread. IF you do that though, you better read carefully review before lambasting. And, quote if you expect people to listen. Because, decent, intelligent people can easily see the difference between mis-speaking and ignorance. I may mis-speak on occasion; I sure as hell don't know everything. But, at least I don't troll and emerge only to flame. You...don't mis-speak. You...only flame. Tell me, where DO the injectors _point_? Towards the head. That is what I said, when I mentioned them. They may not be pushed INTO the head, but I didn't say they did. The head is [partly] under the IC. Nothing more, nothing less.

I do speak up for those who deserve defending. I am widely respected for that. Peter knows so much more than you can even imagine about these cars- so much more than you. He is also a great guy in person AND an invaluable member of the community. You are just ridiculous, especially with how much you whine.

Do you notice how none of these things regard a vendor match-up? It's all because of you, flameboy. Return to topic.

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAANYWAY children.............Id rather see each company built car with all there upgrades run one another.......I dont want to see all stock or lightly modified cars going at it.....I can see that at my local boring SCCA races on the weekend.


Put up, or shut up!.....

Another thing everyone doesnt understand........Your putting all your venders on the spot by asking them to prove whos parts are better.....By no means can you figure that out by racing these cars with different experienced drivers to understand there products.....One guy could have a great product over the other guy but cant drive for sh*t and you'll be making the wrong decisions on the item at hand......

Have fun!

 

Very true. But, as far as I can tell, we have two inherently different questions/options here:

Are we trying to find an indication of what product line is fastest if added to a stock MINI?

Or, are we trying to find the fastest car?

The fastest car will be a simple measure: who a) has the best skills, b) has the most money to dump [unless we cap this based on retail values], c) comes with the lightest package? Remember, participants can (and probably should if there are no rules) very literally remove all hint of interior, remove safety devices and AC, replace all pieces with CF, etc. Hell, they should then completely re-build the engine, for that matter. A vendor can easily contract out engine work. Then what do we really gain out of it?

I think that rules bring value to the competition. Whatever the community finds most valuable, we can do. But, 99% of us will not be using the information gleaned from a 'no rules' test. :smile:

 

Okay, I was wrong...in part - some rules should apply.

0-60
0-100
1/4 mile
0-120
0-140
Top speed - if possible
0-60-0

THE ABOVE IN TWO PASSES

70-120 - personally, I find this test the most useful

Skid pad
Slalom

Road course TT

We can, as intelligent folk, determine who the good drivers are and which cars are simply fast with the above info.

 

I suggest having a hype/smack-talkin' category too. Sure, many vendors may be able to sell parts that increase the performance of the MINI, but how inflated can their claims be? A prize for the largest difference between promised and delivered gains would be awesome. I'll even donate the prize.

 

If the objective of the event is to help the winning vendor sell more product, then some sort of rule structure is almost required. How else would a prospective consumer be able to make sense of the claims made by each vendor? Every racing body has rules of one sort or another; why not a vendor shootout? Otherwise, it really is all about who has the biggest pot of cash....

 

BTW, I don't want to create any expectations, but the hype prize will be better than a thousand Superbowls.

 

UUrrrghhh.....donuts?

 

Most of these issues can be easily solved by creating two (or more) classes. Limited & Unlimited or Hot, medium & mild... whatever makes for the most valuable contest. And a spec tire (or SCCA Street Tire rules) would level the playing field in that regard.

As far as drivers go, I think it's a good idea to let each tuner bring any (amateur) driver they want to. There's no shortage of excellent amateur racers out there, and the disparity in lap times would certainly be minimized that way vs. having the tuners drive their own cars.

 

but will it be better than an NCAA football playoff system?

 

Why not have a single driver for all the cars, or a single driver for each event type? That would eliminate one more variable and put more focus on the car.

 

What every the rules will be, I just hope the Vendors shootout can take place. All I want to know is where and when so I can be there to witness the event.

P.S. We can event sell some ticket for this even and the winner should be able to take a large order from all of us..........

 

 

Thats a good idea.....Theres nothing bias then with one driver. "IF" i can.....Ill call Tony Nuzzo of Nuzzo Motorsports to drive if hes available and its local....If thats the case then Watkins Glen or Lime Rock Raceway will be the place.

 

I guess your inferring that the dynamic weight transfer of the car that ends in a static weight transfer at the point when tire slip angle is reached would not be interest to some. I believe most consider this to be the cars lateral G force potential.
The slalom puts us back into the drivers skill arena unless the same driver does all runs on each car.
Back to the most important factor, TIRES, TIRES, TIRES, without a doubt the most significant factor.

 

And I thought this was all about which tuner knew his stuff and could set-up a car to prove his formulations were correct not just push parts with claims.

Oh crap what was I thinking? Dream on.

This whole thing has been figured out before the Magazines have published the testing criteria. This thread is kind of like playing fantasy football isn't it.

 

Actually if you went and read my response in the throttle body post (cosworth thread), you would know that i agreed with the 2hp gain....but was challenging you on your knowledge of the benefits of throttle body upgrades to our cars....

Careful typing when you havent read everything

 

Someone has a bit of a misconception concerning me. I dont run to anyone's side. I dont want to be on anyones side. I find myself fighting against people who are making un-reasonable comments against ANY vendor. There have been times where i stood up for alta, and webb...and detroit tuned. I do not pick or choose sides....i just always post against people who make pointless bashing posts.

furthermore, if you have a problem with me PM me. I dont want to take up anymore space in this thread

 

Please tell me that this is a typo and not an adult film-ism

 

Lets try to stay on topic here.

A vendor's Shootout is a great idea.

Peter's (M7) suggestion on ground rules makes sense.

One solution is to have two classes.

Limited: more with rules like those mentioned by Peter- this has appeal to us everyday modders with limited (ha!:impatient , ask my wife!) budgets and legalities to consider.

Unlimited: No rules (show us the "beef")

Run the same series of tests and do the head to head comparisons within class and between the two.

Vendors can pick and choose where to participate.

Do we want to run this like the TV show "PINKS"?

 

Got your drift, but where were you back when the inane bickering broke out? Good intentions notwithstanding timeliness is key

I find it difficult to take the thread too seriously at this point. IMO unless a vendor is willing to come back to this thread it's pretty much done.

 

Can we bring our track car ( id have to ask Tony of coarse ) to have a set standard to shoot for.

 

Is this Tony as in NUZZO? If so, that'd be really interesting for most folks