I can see where you are coming from with this, but BelowRadars car is not the only stock MINI dynoed on this particular dyno. There were others that weren't nearly as strong. Sorry, I don't remember the names of those involved, but BelowRadars car was discussed the other day while we were there. I may be putting the cart before the horse here but it was determined that when compared to other cars BelowRadar just had a strong stock car. So it is an assumption on your part that DRS dyno is showing 10.3 hp too high. Just playing the devils advocate here (no pun intended.)

 

detlman, what gasoline are you using to get into the 200 whp club? Is it by any chance the 91 octane pisswater that passes for premium in California? Or, are you mixing to get to a higher octane? 200 whp on pisswater would be quite an accomplishment.

 

I was there and can speak for Brian, it was 91 octane. We all had a big laugh because some actually use higher octane and Brian specifically said he wanted to dyno on the junk you can get everyday.

 

yup what mini d said. pisswater in all its glory. It was 91 oct from the 76 station 3 blocks from my house. I will put a little spin on things to keep some of the interesting comments and arguments coming ( about racing vettes and such )

My car actually ran out of gas in my garage and I put about 5 gallons of 87 in it to get me to the gas station...lol so if anything the pisswater was watered down...lol

I just got back from buttonwillow and the car ran excellent all the way up, on the track and back. HAULING *** !

My times werent all that impressive but I met some great people and Bob S did me a huge favor by riding shotgun for a session and helping my line, with his advice and instruction I shaves 10 seconds off my lap time CONSISTANTLY !!

Thanks Bob ( if you see this )

 

When I had my car tested at DRS, it pulled 189 whp; but that was only with 14.5 psi of boost and a throttle that didn't open to more than 90%, when I should have had 16-17 psi (19% pulley). Apparently there was a problem with the by-pass valve, and that has been replaced. However, I haven't yet been back to DRS for a retest.

After making sure the by-pass valve and throttle were working properly, I now have 17+ psi of boost. Recently, a dyno run was done at another facility. Details are as follows:


Testing site:

Los Angeles Performance Division ("L.A.P.D.") in Chatsworth, CA
Dynojet 248 Dynamometer (chassis/inertia)

Conditions:

Ambient temperature - 81 deg. F
Intake air temperature - 100-110 deg. F
Boost at WOT in 4th gear - 17+ psi
A/F range - 12 to 12.9, with average of about 12.5 (exhaust probe)
Fuel: Chevron 91 octane

Results:

Maximum Power - 208 whp (SAE)(? 236 crank hp, assuming a 12% loss)
Maximum Torque - 175 lb-ft


Mods:

Pipercross Viper CAI, SPA (Steve's Performance Accessories) 65-to-62 TB, SPA ported supercharger, 19% Alta pulley, SPA port-matched intake manifold and ported/polished head, Schrick performance camshaft (264), 380cc JCW injectors, NGK IX Iridium plugs, MTH software, MM/CompTech header, Milltek cat-back

I was somewhat surprised to see the A/F's as high as they were throughout the entire range. Of note, the graph suggested some detonation at engine speeds > 6200 rpm. Obviously, the current situation is not acceptable, so some changes will be made --- e.g., changing the pulley to a less aggressive version and tuning the software on a dyno (? A/F's of about 11.5). Suggestions from the cognoscenti on NAM would be appreciated :smile:

 

Absolutely! It is only a hypothesis. To prove the assumption to be correct or incorrect would require a controlled test with as many "knowns" as possible and a reference standard.

I would like to see the numbers from BelowRadar's MCS on a high-end Mustang dyno with maybe 10 other '05 MCSs.

Terrific pun!

Theo

 

Bob,


I sent you a PM

Bill

 

The DRS dyno doesn't measure bhp, so I think it is a mistake to say that it is running 10.3 bhp too high.

If we're going to consider the accuracy of numbers, we also have to consider the accuracy of the formulas we are using. Every time one of us uses the 12% drivetrain loss theory we have to preface with "I think we can all agree that a 12% drivetrain loss..." or "Assuming a 12% drivetrain loss...". If we use the 12% theory as a way to yield or compare numbers, it needs to be a valid yardstick, which (and I could be wrong) I don't think it has been proven to be. In any case, I think looking for whp truth by converting to bhp is a mistake.

Yes, I have been told by more than one person (in the passenger seat butt dyno) that my car pulls harder than other MCSs. I have driven about a half dozen stock MCSs and I am definitely happy with mine.

Also, for what it's worth, there were 16 MCSs dyno'd that day and the majority of them were in the mid-160 to mid-170 range. Mods varied from a 15% pulley w/intake to 19% pulley w/intake, exhaust, and software. All the numbers seemed in range.

detlman pulled 176.8 that day with a whole host of mods. This was pre cam, head, and A'PEXi (maybe others?). detlman? The only person that broke 200 whp was D1JL, and he has just about every non-turbo mod under the sun plus the A'PEXi.

Me too. I'd be happy to dyno my car on a Mustang. Anyone know of one in So. Cal.? The only problem is that I won't be stock for very long... I plan on doing my pulley next week and the A'PEXi the week after.

 

I agree with the above.

For you to start saying that the DRS dyno is 10hp high you would have to have proof that the 168hp BHP stated by MINI is correct.

Dodge SRT-4's are constantly dyno'ing at or near 230whp when Dodge says they have 230bhp. So does that mean that SRT-4's have 0-1% drivetrain loss?? Ummm no, it just means that Dodge is understating HP to keep the car in a sane insurance bracket. The same thing can be happening with with MINI's.

The only true way for you to figure out a cars drivetrain loss is to dyno it through the wheels and then remove the drivetrain by removing the engine from the car and dyno'ing it on an engine dyno. YOu get the two numbers and you then have your drivetrain loss, know of anybody who has done this????

I would say all these numbers are pretty accurate, but hunting down BHP is pretty much useless. If you do baselines of the car when its stock then WHP is all you will ever need.

 

Yes, lightweight wheels will affect the outcome of a dyno at the wheels. Lightening any part of the drivetrain will effectively help the engine put more of its HP to the ground. Result is a high dyno number.

I'm hoping to dyno my new 05 MCS this weekend as a baseline but i'll probably have lightweight wheels on it by then. If all things work out i might just take my Xlites out to the dyno just for the runs, so i can get a TRUE baseline.